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Xmas is over, back to reality

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Pete1970, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. Pete1970

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    I know I shouldn't complain because the holiday was actually pretty good this year. But now that it's over, the distractions from real life have eased and reality is coming back.
    I will be working 6 days a week until at least April, my son goes back to college in a little under 3 weeks and the only real outlet I have is coming here.

    It's been almost 2 years since the wife and i decided to stay together and for the most part nothing has really gotten better. I basically have no friends left as I had to give them up for peace at home (although the wife will say she never told me I had to, but actions speak louder than words )
    So basically all I do is go to work, watch TV for a couple of hours, then go to bed. I have no desire or energy to go to the gym anymore, I don't watch what I eat anymore, gained alot of the weight back that I lost a few years ago.
    There really isn't a solution as I am not going to hurt my kids, I just wanted to write this out somewhere. I cant really go to a therapist because our insurance requires us to pay upfront for the first $2,500, so I am sorry for sounding like a big whiner
     
  2. CameOutSwinging

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    Do you think it would hurt your kids to know that their father is miserable?

    Sorry if that's blunt, but it's something worth considering.
     
  3. TravelerMe

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    Pete wish I had something to say to help but all I can offer is some shared misery. Sometimes that helps, lol. Not out to my wife and kids yet and I feel your frustration. I often wonder when will they be old enough for me to move on. Not sure yet but for me to see the light at the end of the tunnel I know I need to figure that out, plan for it and pick time.

    Hang in there.
     
  4. yeehaw

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    In my case, I told my husband I was gay and he filed for divorce and quite literally kicked me out (with the kids). (He has since almost continuously asked me to come back, but at this point I am unwilling.) We have two very young children and at the time it was terrifying and I wanted us to stay together for the kids. I must say though, that I think our kids are actually better off with us divorced. Getting out helped me see how diconnected from myself I had become and how that equated to somewhat limited emotional availability from me. I do get that each individual situation is very different and that my experience doesn't necessarily apply to you. But I really do think our kids are better off with a sane mom who is divorced from their dad. There is no "ideal" solution for our family and each "solution" comes with a cost for the children and for the parents and I think it is helpful to try to keep a Birdseye view of the situation with an eye toward *all* consequences for different scenarios. Best to you as you navigate these extremely difficult waters.
     
    #4 yeehaw, Dec 28, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  5. SiennaFire

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    Hi Pete,

    This sounds like a really unhealthy situation for you. You have a tedious work cycle (go to work, come home and watch TV, rinse and repeat); you've lost your friends; and you aren't taking care of your body. I'm guessing you're not getting any either :frowning2:

    Since you sound so miserable, wouldn't it be better to re-examine the decision to stay together for the kids?

    Apologies, I'm genetically programmed to question the elephant in the room :slight_smile:

    SF
     
    #5 SiennaFire, Dec 28, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  6. OnTheHighway

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    Agree with what others have said, it does no one any real good if your miserable. Everyone sense it.
     
  7. yeehaw

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    Hi there. I keep thinking about this thread. & I keep thinking about how you are hearing a whole lot of encouragement to consider leaving your marriage. I find myself wondering if you will feel less interested in sharing things with us (or simply not heard) if you're predicting that all you get back in return is "leave your wife" when you have pretty clearly said that you are not willing to do that right now. Then my thoughts wandered onto the things in my journey that have felt nourishing that don't require leaving a partner. And there's actually quite a lot! I was interested in finding a new physical outlet for myself and found my way to yoga, and basically had a big meltdown over a very simple pose that requires me to simply stand as I am with no postural apologies for my existence. It was actually pretty profound and yoga continues to be a way that I work towards feeling more and more connected with myself. I'm not actually suggesting that you start yoga. But more that you think about what kinds of things you can add to your life that help you feel more connected to yourself. So one path to think about is ways of physically moving your body that you're drawn to or attracted to. This could be something like yoga but I could also be going for hikes, it can be taking curling lessons, it could be any sort of physical activity that you're drawn to that leaves you feeling like you are honoring who you are your very core by engaging in that activity. Thinking about your physical appearance is another way to go. I'm finally for the first time in my life recognizing that I really don't like to wear makeup and don't feel at home in it and for the first time in my life am embracing a no-makeup life with no apology and it feels f****** fabulous. I'm guessing makeup isn't an issue for you, but the way you present yourself physically is another way to think about how you might connect deeply with who you are at your core in a way that feels good to you, this might be thinking about clothes that make you feel at home with yourself or hairstyles that make you feel at home with yourself, or shoes that make you feel at home with yourself. Hobbies that have a real pull for you or that are meaningful for you can be another good way to feel more connected to yourself in a way that feeling nourishing. Sorry for the ridiculously long post but I really do think there are lots of ways of exploring your life within the constraints you've got right now that might feel good and meaningful to you.
     
    #7 yeehaw, Dec 28, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  8. Patagonia

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    Pete, I know exactly what you're talking about, right down to the daily grind. I do think you deserve credit for considering how all of this will affect your kids. I don't believe as some others do, that simply picking up and leaving is always the right choice. It's not that simple. You know that better than anyone.

    One of the few things you do have a choice about is whether or not you will take care of your health. When you are hit hard with guilt, depression, anxiety, it takes a toll on your physical health as well. And as your physical health declines, your emotional health is dragged right down with it. A vicious cycle, right? Would you be concerned if your son came home from college really overweight, out of shape and didn't do much else than watch TV and go to bed? What advice would you give him?

    Pete, you're 45. You've got ALOT of life ahead of you. You've got to be there for your kids. I thought I ignored my health because of my depression. I wonder now if it was a way to punish myself for all the guilt that gets dumped on me daily. I guess you need to look yourself in the mirror. Don't just look at your face. Strip down naked. Then decide if you will be there, be there HEALTHY for your kids for all the big days ahead in their life. ( And BTW, the day will come when you WILL be able to live the life you want! Be there!)
     
  9. Pete1970

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    The thing is will I be more miserable if I disrupt their lives they will hate me for doing so. Also, we are finally at a place financially where we pay the bills and have money to do things.

    I did join a hiking group and met a bunch of great guys, some which became good friends but like I said everytime I went I would get attitude from the wife so I stopped going. I used to go to the gym 4 to 5 times a week but again would get accused of meeting people there so I stopped going
     
  10. middleGay

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    Personally I think the answer is in this post... you "get attitude from the wife"? What is that? You can't have a personal hobby? I am sorry, but kids can be just fine if you get divorced. You can still be an awesome parent, if she can still be an awesome parent too then why would the kids suffer? Where is it written that you shall be miserable so your kids can be slightly less upset for the short term but in order to do so you shall teach them that living authentically is not worth the effort. Instead you'll go to work, come home, watch a few hours of TV, rinse repeat. That is life? Is that what you want to teach your kids? Hey kids, be mediocre! Settle for a spouse that pushes you around and controls you, settle for being unhappy.

    I have kids, I am going through hell right now after coming out (years ago) because my wife and her family are a bunch of nut jobs but screw them, I want to LIVE!!! I was much like you, I felt trapped, my wife never SAID I couldn't have friends but I always felt like she was jealous when I spent time with them. She often acted out like a 2 year old when they were around and she felt neglected, it was obvious she couldn't share me... I was so incredibly miserable. I had a picture perfect life, plenty of money, big house, nice cars, nice vacations, beautiful kids... I was also depressed. One day I decided I won't settle for what I'm SUPPOSED to want, I'm going to live my life the way I want to live my life. So PICK UP THE PEN AND WRITE THE SCRIPT OF YOUR LIFE... Stop letting others write it for you. Someone gave me that advice and it hit me like a thunderbolt. If I continued down my current path I would die an old, bitter, depressed man... a life barely lived. I'm gay, I LOVE guys, I love fabulous things, I love cars too, getting dirty, hiking, camping, fixing stuff. I like dressing well and wearing nice clothes, I sometimes act a bit well... gay... I love writing, expressing myself. I am creative, loving. I LOVE my kids beyond measure, why would I show them by example that they should settle, I should show them that to win at life you need to make the hard choices. My wife hates me most of the time, probably always will. Her family threaten me with death on a semi regular basis, I am almost completely alone but for the first time I am ALIVE... I can make choices... I can finally pick up the God damn pen and write the rest of the script.

    </rant>

    Sorry, but this post struck a chord.
     
  11. Shadowsylke

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    Oh middleGay, I could hug you! I agree with you 1000%. People stay in unhealthy and unhappy marriages for all sorts of reasons, but I have yet to see a single instance where denying yourself to that extent yields anything positive. It just breeds more unhappiness, and that eventually eats you alive.

    To be so controlled by your spouse...it just makes me shudder, because I lived that story, and I know how suffocating and toxic it is. I also know how hard and scary it was to get out of. But worth it.
     
  12. SiennaFire

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    Pete,

    What do you want from this thread? You posted that your current decision brings you misery, yet you continue to defend your decision and the misery in your life. The idea that I had to stay married and in the closet for the benefit of my kids created a similar dynamic of working hard to support a lifestyle I really didn't want, so I can empathize with you. Where you lose me is the language that you have to stay together to make them happy (or less mad at you). You don't have to; you are choosing to stay together and it seems you are not benefiting from the arrangement, other than assuagement of guilt.

    Why will you be miserable if you disrupt their lives? Your kids' or your wife's? What good is having money to do things if you're not allowed to do things or invest it on therapy? Presumably you agreed to staying married after discussion with your wife? The least she can do for you is to let you enjoy time with the hiking club or gym. I noticed in one of your previous posts that she texts other men? Doesn't seem right or fair.

    I agree with what middleGay's advice. greatwhale gave me similar advice before I came out (see the first line of my sig).

    What will you write in 2016?
    (&&&) :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:
     
    #12 SiennaFire, Dec 29, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  13. CameOutSwinging

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    I think Yeehaw has an interesting point about finding ways to express yourself within your constraints...but then you mention how your wife pretty much wants to control you, so you can't really do that either.

    It sounds like you've decided you're stuck for your kids, and your wife KNOWS this and figures it means she can control you, because what are you going to do? You won't leave. So why shouldn't she keep pushing to see how much control she can have?

    I think the first baby step here is for you to take a little bit of power back in your relationship. You want to go to the gym 4 or 5 times a week so you feel better about yourself? Do it! If she gets mad at you, let her be mad. You want to join that hiking group again? Do it! Again, let her be angry. What is she going to do, kick you out? If that happens, then it is her choosing to change the situation for you and your kids and you can just deal from there.

    You need to start building confidence in yourself before anything else really. It's easy to say the words "leave" and "live your life," but I can speak from experience right now and say that it is so hard to do those things when you lack the basic confidence that you can stand up on your own two feet. So if you're not the type to just pull the pin and launch the grenade, at least start taking the baby steps. There's just absolutely no reason for anybody to be living a miserable life. You didn't commit a crime, so why are you willing to commit yourself to a prison?
     
  14. Highlander2

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    Pete, I recall reading your posts a couple of years back when I just started my journey. I also remember you pulling back (last year was it?) to try and manage how you felt and the life with your wife.

    I can see that you're still struggling with things and, reading your posts now, it feels to me like you are more trapped than ever. Restricting what you can do, who you can meet, and effectively how you are living your life, isn't a marriage. Sorry buddy, this is just my own view of things and I might be way off the mark. You've made a commitment to look after your kids, and as you say the financial side of things is just about okay at the moment for you. What you've described to me sounds like a prison you've locked yourself into for the sake of your children. I completely understand why you have done that, but I also see that you've said that just now wouldn't be the right time to leave. Again, having two young children I know how this felt.

    But, and this is where your situation is totally different to mine, much as it hurt me and hurt them and my ex for me to leave, staying and locking myself into my own prison in my own head just wouldn't have worked. You sound like you are going through a living Hell just now, and something will give eventually.

    None of us here can tell you what to do, but it can work. Yes it can be financially tough, but from what you've described your wife is holding practically all the ace cards and is using them to control you. We call it domestic abuse in the UK - it doesn't have to be physical, it can be emotional control as well and stopping you living even half a life (apart from the gay thing) that means you feel connected to other people is abuse.

    As your children grow up they will see how you and she interact and come to believe that relationships are built on this kind of behaviour when two adults live together.

    For your own health, the sake of your children and the way they view relationships, think carefully about this. You only get one life as the saying goes.
     
  15. Pete1970

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    Thanks everyone for your input, you all have valid points.
    It's overwhelming to think of the consequences of my actions for other people.

    Highlander. - good to hear from you, it's been a while
     
  16. CameOutSwinging

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    I fully empathize with that overwhelming feeling. That's why I say baby steps. The truth is, there should be ZERO CONSEQUENCES for you deciding you're going to go to the gym 4 times a week. It hurts nobody, it doesn't take you away from your family for more than an hour four days a week, and it is a small action that would make you feel better about yourself. 4 hours out of a 168 hour week. That's just not a lot of "you time" to ask for.

    If your wife would cause there to be consequences over something that small, then the problem actually goes far above your sexuality. I say this as somebody who has been in a relationship recently (and sort of still is..."separated" but it's all confusing) where frankly at times you could take my sexuality questions out and still find that it's just not a great, healthy relationship.
     
  17. Pete1970

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    Oh I meant consequences of getting divorced
     
  18. SWburbchgo

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    Pete - There are some fantastic points here so I will just add my own experience. When it went down with my wife she told me I had 24 hours to tell the kids or she would. This is not how I wanted to tell them as I was an emotional mess to begin with after coming out to my wife that day and basically telling her our marriage was over. So I had to tell my kids over the phone as they were both away at school. Initially they took it ok and then a few days later I got a joint letter from them that was very difficult to read. Being kids the one of the first questions was " what are we going to do for the holidays" (Frankly it was a million miles from my thinking at that point). Anyhow I sat down a wrote them both a letter and in it I wrote the following:

    Here is what I want you to know – Both of you have been and will continue to be my highest priority. I don’t need to tell you that as you already know it by my words and my actions, all of your life. I am still your Dad, the one that changed your diapers, attended every game and most practices of the sports in your life. I am the same person who has watched you grow into your young adulthood with a sense of pride because you are wonderful kids. I am the same person who will wait with excited expectations as you move on to your future journeys in life from the first job out of college to marriage and eventually grandchildren. Whatever path you take I just want you to be happy. My disclosure last Sunday changes nothing about who I was, who I am or who I will be.
    I realize that there could have been many other alternatives to my approach with this and I apologize for the way that I handled it so abruptly. I loved your mother when we married and I still love her and she will hold a place in my heart all my life. What you need to know is that I needed to do this for myself. I realize that you are hurt and angry and rightfully so, but I can also tell you that no one coerced or took advantage of me as I made this decision. No ultimatums were given, in fact, quite the opposite is true. I sought no counsel from anyone on this.
    The shame, denial, along with feelings of being lost and alone in many ways is something that I had tried to bury for many years. I am pretty sure that had I sought counseling, the outcome, while not as harsh, would have been the same. Coming out is a process and it there are no rule-books or manuals to follow, so moving forward I am going to move more slowly and thoughtfully in who I tell and when I tell them.

    I meant every word that I wrote and somehow I know that they felt the sincerity. It has been almost a year and they have been wonderful. It's not perfect but it is better than I thought it would be, way better. Kids today are much less judgmental even if it is their parent. I think it would be good to unburden your guilt by sharing with them how you feel and more importantly how you feel about them and you are the same person you have always been.

    Regarding the situation with your wife - it is truly a personal one that you must make. But allowing some one to manipulate your feeling, wants and needs is not healthy what so ever. If you and your wife are just cohabitating then I would suggest more open, honest communication between you two that establishes norms and guidelines of behavior that you both can agree to live with and abide to recognizing that there will need to be a great deal of compromise. Compromise is a two way street and right now it seems as though, based on what you have written, is completely one sided.

    This is probably way longer than it needed to be, but it is my 2 cents. Here's wishing you the best in 2016.
     
  19. CapColors

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    Everyone deserves the ability to have friends. I'd kill myself if I couldn't. My husband complains about mine all the time but it's just too bad. He has to live with it.
     
  20. Choirboy

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    Pete, I feel for you. I know from many of our conversations that we married very similar and challenging people, and I know how easy it is to assume the worst. My ex and I talked divorce when our youngest was a baby, and she's a freshman in high school now, so it's not like this was a quick process for me either. Coming out was really the trump card that I used, and not even something I felt compelled to do.

    What's happened since then? The world hasn't come to an end. Our finances are a mess, true (mine in particular, since I absorbed the brunt of the hit). I cringe at every new sound that comes out of my 18-year-old beat-up car as it lumbers close to the 200,000 mile mark, and I look at my beat-up shoes and worn-out clothes and wonder when that "fabulous gay lifestyle" that I've heard so much about will kick in. My ex alternates between accusations, whining about "losing her best friend", making the usual demands of my time and money (despite the mountain of child support that she is hoarding "just in case"), and, occasionally, being civil and friendly. When I visit the house, I'm shocked by how awful it's gotten, and it was a disorganized mess before. Whether or not she's keeping up with the bills I don't know. She has the money, but she actually needs to open the bills and pay them, so it's anyone's guess. She actively resents anything I do that might be considered fun (or more accurately, anything that doesn't revolve around her), and tells me over and over how bad she has it since I moved out. All of that sounds very much like a lot of the things you've faced.

    But let me tell you this: Once you are away from the manipulations and cruelty and unreasonable behavior for a little while, you start to realize just how bad it really was, and just how much of your emotions you were putting into the futile attempts at bolstering her happiness at the expense of your own. It's absolutely exhausting to live with a black hole of needs and demands, and it's not healthy (emotionally OR physically, witness her complaints about you going to the gym).

    What's worse is the example it sets for the kids. If the primary example in their lives of a relationship is a one parent emotionally bullying and draining the other, what's likely to happen to them? My parents had a very unhealthy relationship, and my sister and I (we're 11 months apart) both ended up in bad relationships that were heavily influenced by our parents. Seeing me take some responsibility for my own happiness has been a good experience for them, and I can actually see them being more assertive and adult.

    You love your kids and from what I can tell, you have a very positive relationship with them. You may not realize it, but on some level (maybe not very far under the surface either), they know you're unhappy and it bothers them. I wished for years that my parents would split up because I knew they were miserable together. It never happened (Mom died unexpectedly and Dad's health ended up in a long, slow decline). I agonized over my own split and as convinced that either the kids would hate me or I'd permanently damage them, but if you have a healthy relationship with them already, it's not likely to happen. Mine respect me more now than they did then, and they are putting up with much less of their mother's crap than they did when I was there acting as the buffer zone.

    It hasn't been easy and I won't lie to you and paint a rosy picture of everything. I've lost some mutual friends, and I have a few family members who have sided with her because they really didn't understand just how bad things were. Money is horribly tight and I still have 4 years of child support, and I'm paying for a house I don't live in, which I am watching fall to pieces because I'm not there doing dishes and picking dog crap out of the yard and throwing away the remnants of meals while she sits watching SVU and complaining about how rough she has it. But I have self-respect now, and I'm living my life based on what I can and can't do, not based on what I'm ALLOWED to do. My kids are struggling somewhat because I'm not on-site, but they understand and they are learning to stand up for themselves.

    This is far more about self-respect than anything else. A lot of us closet types didn't stay there because we didn't know we were gay, but rather because we were afraid of change, and painted a picture for ourselves that was even worse than the reality we were living through. But the truth is, things will never get better on their own, particularly when you're dealing with someone demanding and irresponsible and manipulative. At some point we have to recognize that WE matter too. I hope that the new year gives you hope and a fresh perspective. Change is hard and painful, but there's more hope in it than in just enduring the same misery year after year. Take care. (*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)