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Rage and frustration

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by nerdbrain, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. nerdbrain

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    I spent the evening last night with my wife. Although we are separated, she comes over from time to time to visit, and usually sleeps over (no sex). I was happy to be with her, happy to buy her favorite pastries, happy to hold her, happy to wake up with her the next morning, happy when she did her morning routines before leaving for work.

    When I got home today I wished she were coming back tonight as well, so I could make dinner for us. She texted me later from her place saying that she missed me. It broke my heart. I miss her too.

    I found myself sobbing alone in my kitchen, repeating the words, "I don't want to go." I don't want to leave her. I miss our little family -- just us and the stupid cat.

    I don't have crushes on guys. I've never had a satisfying sexual experience with a guy. I've never had the "butterflies" some people describe. Just consistent, powerful sexual fantasies that seem to take over until I satisfy them (through masturbation, to date). Furtive glances at guys on the street. And a strong affinity for gay life and gay culture -- it's always made sense to me, more than the straight world.

    I'm smart enough to know that these signals probably mean I'm gay, and that I just haven't gotten over my shame and anxiety enough to enjoy it. But I've been trying for decades. I've spent tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars on therapy.

    Today I find myself alone, withdrawn from the world, feeling ashamed and raw. The one person who I really love, my wife, is the one I must now divorce and abandon to go "embrace my freedom." It seems like a cruel joke.

    How am I supposed to look at being gay as a positive? I don't want it. I feel like it's being forced on me. I want to kill it but I can't kill my own mind. I guess this is self-hatred.

    It seems like others on EC have glimpsed some kind of light at the end of the tunnel: a trigger crush, a sexual connection, or an unhappy marriage to escape. I've got none of those things to motivate me. The only thing driving me is my sense of integrity, but that feels pretty abstract compared to a loving relationship with another human being.
     
  2. ariverinegypt

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    Sound brutal indeed. I hope you can find some way to accept yourself. I relate way too much to your experience of having this imposed on me.

    Have you looked into alternatives to therapy?

    http://www.neip.info/upd_blob/0001/1053.pdf
     
  3. SiennaFire

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    A few thoughts. Are you familiar with the Satir change model? Here's what google returns at the top of the search The Satir Change Model

    The foreign element is that you are gay. You appear to be stuck in the resistance and chaos stages where you are doing everything in your power to deny your sexuality. Furthermore, it seems that the relationship with your wife is impeding your progress accepting that you are gay. She allows you to retreat to the land of the familiar, albeit an inauthentic lifestyle, placating the cognitive dissonance that you must feel around being gay. Once you retreat the cycle repeats itself. As you attempt to process your feelings about being gay, you feel uncomfortable and retreat back to the familiar, rejecting the foreign element, namely, your sexuality.

    You are correct in that others on EC have more potent foreign elements, their sexuality plus a trigger crush, a sexual connection, or an unhappy marriage to escape, which gives them more activation energy for change, making it more difficult to resist and retreat.

    Are you familiar with the debate about free will versus determinism? At a very high level it refutes the notion that we have free will in the classic religious sense of choosing between right and wrong and conceptualizes the human brain as a computer where the inputs into the system determines the behavior of the individual. One outcome of this model is that criminals cannot be blamed for their actions, they are simply responding to their (albeit very complicated) set of inputs. There still needs to be accountability for crime, of course, but the criminal can't be blamed for choosing the path. Similarly, gays do not choose to be gay and cannot be blamed for being gay. We are acting based on how our brain is wired. Being gay is not being forced on you any more than being male or being born was forced upon you. You are not to blame for making a bad choice - you are gay because that's how your brain is programmed. This model can also be used to forgive yourself for decades of denial - you and many of us on EC were simply responding to our programming (e.g., messages growing up that being gay is bad).

    In order to get past this, you must find a more potent foreign element, perhaps you recall the proof I did that shows you will be stuck in this cycle when you are 80. Perhaps the knowledge that you will look back with regret on your death bed will help motivate serious and lasting change. You also need a transforming idea that will get you out of the chaos stage.

    It is left as an exercise for the reader to provide the more potent foreign element and transforming idea.
     
    #3 SiennaFire, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  4. nerdbrain

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    Ha, far out man...

    ---------- Post added 21st Jan 2016 at 03:14 AM ----------

    SF, I like this model, thanks for sharing. I think what I was trying to articulate is that I lack a transforming idea -- some way of reframing my gayness as a positive.

    As for deathbed regrets, the one that worries me is leaving my wife and still never find closure and peace. Some part of me still believes this whole "gay thing" may turn out to be a wild goose chase, maybe some kind of daddy issues or something, but not bona fide homosexuality. A river in Egypt, indeed.
     
  5. YeahpIdk

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    Your situation sounds really frustrating. Even for those with trigger crushes that started it off, like myself, there is an entirely new world and line of questioning that must be dealt with. I'm two years in and still drive myself absolutely nuts sometimes. I mourn a straight life sometimes. There's something comfortable about it. Perhaps that's what you're dealing with when you get to be with your wife, a feeling of comfort - the familiar, the "correct." What struck me was you questioning if you're on a goose chase and/or having daddy issues. I would push you to really think that out, though. Do you think that, of all things, your sexuality is the way you'd be dealing with such things?

    I might have had something substantial, like falling really hard for a girl out of no where -- but how would that be a possibility if it wasn't a part of me? I have an overthinking problem. It's really bad - and lately, I've been questioning if I over thought myself lesbian. It sounds ridiculous to me when I'm being logical, but I wonder it.

    Perhaps seek out a therapist who deals with this kind of thing. Go easy on yourself. Your wife sounds really lovely, as a person. Give yourself some time to think it out, and explore. Unless I'm reading incorrectly, it sounds as if you guys are currently separated because of this. If that's true -- if this was solely a wild goose chase, do you think you would have taken it so far? If it was just a fantasy, or a fleeting thought -- why would it have gone so far? I don't know if any of that is helpful, but possibly some questions to challenge your thoughts.

    Keep writing here and sorting things out.
     
  6. Lemongrass

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    nerdbrain, I have little in the way of advice to give, but wanted to let you know I can empathize. My situation may not be exactly the same, but can relate. I also have the lack of same sex crushes but the ever growing fantasies throughout the years. These nagging urges remain in the abstract so also question whether they are valid or in my case, some kind of mid-life crisis. You seem like an honest and sensitive soul, and like YeahpIdk says, go easy on yourself. You aren't doing anything bad or wrong, you are just discovering who you are, which isn't always easy and clean. Not much else to add, just that a kindred spirit will be thinking of you.
     
    #6 Lemongrass, Jan 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  7. CameOutSwinging

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    I feel like it's a genuinely tough subject. I can relate to you in certain ways - feeling connected to gay life and gay culture especially - and while you may argue that I fit the bill of having had a "trigger crush" and also being in a relationship that sounds less than stellar, I still find that those things don't make it any easier to take the next big leap of faith. I'm still at a point where I want to be gay identifying while being married to a woman, which makes such little sense.

    It occurred to me yesterday in therapy that one issue I have is I can't envision I relationship with another man. Like, I can see dating, and I've gone on dates with guys just as I have with girls and I quite enjoy it. It's pretty normal. But when I think about the idea of moving in with a man, of going through the very mundane day to day life of a relationship with a man, it all looks weird in my head. Laying around, watching TV, being lazy, arguing about laundry, etc. That's the disconnect I'm having right now. Dating is fine, sex is more than fine, but I can't see myself in your run of the mill relationship with a guy.

    I do think part of that comes from my lack of emotional relationships (non-romantic) with men over the course of my life. I grew up in a very female-heavy family. My grandfathers were either absent or the strong, silent type. My father, who I very much wanted to have an emotional connection to, was too busy being a drunk and an ass to actually form any kind of deep bond with. Never had any close uncles either. I have my little brother and a younger cousin, which is part of why I think I have a particularly easy time forming relationships with younger men. But even throughout college, I barely made any male friends. Had tons of female friends. Still find it very easy to make friends with women. Whereas men, it is a challenge. I have a number of male friends now thanks to boxing and they're probably the closest male friends I've ever had, save for my best friend who I met about 6 years ago on a wrestling (we're dorks) message board and just bonded with instantly. Yes he's completely straight and he's very much like a brother to me.

    I'm trying to be more open in terms of making guy friends. I particularly want more gay friends since my circle is basically non-existent. But I don't know, I'm a fairly shy guy around people believe it or not (at least I feel that way) and talking to people who I can't help but feel some sort of attraction to doesn't help things. I think I've just spent a lifetime having no clue how to build meaningful relationships with men.
     
  8. SiennaFire

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    I had actually planted a potential transforming idea in my post - the paragraph about free will versus determinism.

    The Satir model says that you are trying to resist the foreign element, namely, the "gay thing". Do you really think that you are straight and that you are on a gay wild goose chase?
     
    #8 SiennaFire, Jan 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  9. CameronBayArea

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    A few disparate thoughts:

    1. Someone once told me that it takes the average person two years to emotionally recover from a divorce. Another person told me that the average relationship grieving time is one month for every year you were together. Based on myself and what I've seen many friends experience, those measures seem about right. And the recovery isn't linear, especially in the first year. It's a roller coaster ride; many small things can set you off.

    For example...I had been split-up for nearly three years when I lost my wedding ring. I don't ever cry, but when I realized it was gone, I was instantly sobbing. And I couldn't stop for the longest time. Quite miraculously, someone found it the next day. Once I had it in my hand again, I felt pure joy, akin to the birth of my kids.

    There's no logical reason why I should value that ring so much, but I still do, more than five years after I stopped wearing it.

    2. However divided, frustrated or enraged you feel now, you will not always feel this way. Emotional chaos is a very painful thing but it's not a permanent state of mind. Quite naturally you will continue to make adjustments and the pain will slowly ease. Will you remain unscarred? Probably not. But whatever the outcome is, THAT destination is where you were meant to be.

    Difficult interior conflicts like this work out for reasons, sometimes for reasons we don't fully understand at the time. This might not be consoling to hear, but if you embrace your hurt, rage and frustration by recognizing that they are moving you in "the" right direction (whatever that might be), they may be easier to bear. Trust that your subconscious will lead you toward happiness and fulfillment.

    3. I am familiar with an increasing number of couples who are making their mixed orientation marriages work. Society's attitude about absolute monogamy is softening a bit, I believe, and that's made more straight women willing to accept a not-straight husband. So it's possible that a non-traditional straight marriage *might* be your eventual destination.

    That said, the whole idea is fraught with potential problems. Chief among them is that, when you're both hurting, it is *SO* easy to say, "Let's get back together." This is exactly what my wife and I did when I came out to her in our mid-20s. Well, she never told me, but my honesty blew a fundamental hole in her ability to fully commit to me or our marriage. In time, she saw all her frustrations with me as being gay-related, and that had a slow but highly corrosive affect on our marriage.

    Based on my experience, I would recommend an absolute minimum of one year of living apart before deciding to get back together again, and ideally, two. I think both spouses need to be mostly healed and totally comfortable with themselves and their partner before they seriously consider starting anew.

    4. The best cure for the "I don't want to be gay" blues is meeting someone awesome that you click with in ways you never imagined. Until that happens to you, it's impossible to imagine how you will feel and how that affects your understanding of yourself, your sexuality and your previous relationships. Since there's no magic formula for finding a spectacular match, all anyone can do is meet as many new people as possible. Be focusing on that, at a minimum, you will make new friends and spend less time alone. I've made many really good friends since my marriage ended. Those relationships have proven to be so fulfilling that I have happily embraced the idea of being single for the rest of my life.
     
  10. nerdbrain

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    Thanks everyone for your comments.

    At some level, I secretly hope I'm on a wild goose chase and this whole thing will blow over. But I like to think I'm pragmatic enough to realize this is highly unlikely.

    I agree that I need to meet more people. This is actually something I've been struggling with a lot.

    It's pretty strange really -- I'm just not that curious about other people. In social settings, it's much easier to stay quiet. I feel like I don't have much to add; no good stories, no charming comments. I make the occasional joke so I don't seem like a total wallflower, and escape as soon as socially acceptable.

    My theory on this is that I don't know who I am and don't know what I want, so it's hard to project any kind of a strong persona. Caring about other people feels like a burden.

    The one exception to all this is my wife. All my emotional eggs, as it were, are in her basket. I guess that's a big part of the reason it's so hard to imagine life without her -- she's the only person I have a real connection with these days.

    It wasn't always like this, but over the last 10-15 years, I've gotten more and more reclusive.
     
  11. SiennaFire

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    Cameron makes a good point that until you really click with someone, you don't know what you are missing by living inauthentically. Once I really connected with another guy, I could no longer deny that I was gay, nor did I really want to turn back. I had found the land of milk and honey. I will add that until you know what you are missing, you seem unlikely to go after it. You probably realize that retreating back to your wife is an unconstructive pattern even though it relieves stress in the moment. Given that you've already spent 10s of thousands of dollars on therapy, I doubt there is anything new that we can say about overcoming the shame of being gay. At some point you need to take a leap of faith and embrace your gayness and stop trying to fool yourself that you might be straight.

    <the leap of faith is taken>

    So the question reduces to how do you meet other introverted gay nerds :icon_eek: in NYC?
     
    #11 SiennaFire, Jan 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  12. Mr B

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    heterosexual relationships tend to eventually get to a point where one partner eventually wants children. You end up doing it to stay with them and sooner than think you find yourself with one or two kids around and your relationship and sexual life take a huge hit. Your fantasies will not disappear, quite on the contrary, they will be strongest as ever, but then things will be really, really complicated... Thats my experience. If only I could be free again like you!
     
  13. rachael1954

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    I totally relate and understand.

    It feels like coming out should be this natural, wonderful thing, but it feels like I'm putting my hand in a meat #######. I even had the "transformative trigger crush", and "marriage that left something to be desired" and I still can't summon enough motivation to get out and be authentic.

    Only hanging out with other LGBT people makes me feel normal. Like I am understood, like the struggle is validated. Because they have struggled too. I enjoy talking with those that are still deeper in the closet because it reminds me how far I have come. I enjoy talking with those in similar situations as mine because it helps me assess and measure my next tentative steps. And I enjoy talking with those that are way out of the closet, because it shows me what is possible.

    I am not eloquent, but wanted to try and make you feel better, so here are some quotes:

     
  14. nerdbrain

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    Well, that worked! :slight_smile:

    I've been cooped up during this blizzard and the cat has actually been more affectionate than usual.

    He doesn't care if I'm gay or straight or anything else, as long as he gets dinner and belly rubs.
     
  15. CyclingFan

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    Kafka always cheers me up too, Rachael1954. :slight_smile: