Gay vs Bi vs denial

Me, again. This might be the wrong forum but its also a later in life question/problem so here goes.

I find myself needing a reality check as I've never been all that good with reality.

It took me a while but I can accept that I'm not straight. Most of the time. I'm also painfully aware of my own homophobia that pops up, mostly as pride/vanity/ego. At least I know what it is, now, which cuts down on the self-hate.

I've also had to admit that my parents' marriage was/is not the heterosexual ideal. At all. It's entirely possible that I could be 100% (which I'm not) straight and still be single at this point, given the impression they've left regarding relationships/family. Aka I've got other baggage I hadn't noticed before.

I'm also almost 39 and feeling obsolete. Ya midlife. Blah.

If I hold myself to the "fantasy test" I do have fantasies about men. But also about women. And also about men and women. My instinct says I jumped the gun and Bi might fit better. Which makes sense for someone who grew up seeing the world as straight vs "other."

Which is fine, other than it's given me a shiny new club to beat myself over the head with. Any time the meter in my head shifts (or I notice that it has) the critics come out. I'm an old creep, or a f-g, or a guy who just "hates" his mom.

I know the answer is to chill out and accept me for me but that feels harder than it sounds, at least anymore. Because the moment I say "no problem, you're bisexual. In fact, that makes sense," then the questions start all over, aka, where's the wife/exwife, why can't you shut up and be straight, then?

If I force myself to be objective, I'm either bisexual or gay and overly attached to being seen as viable by women, with a heavy dose of "I don't want to be old yet" midlife garbage.

I don't know why this matters as much to me as it does. It feels obsessive at times. I find myself thinking, wait, that guy was hot yesterday or she's pretty but you've got socks older than her (almost) so get over it. Or, wait, she was hot yesterday. And so on.

I don't know, anymore. I would chalk myself up to crazy if spending a shift at work around guys didn't have me going ya, guys, only to cross paths with an attractive woman then be all, ya, girls. Add some baggage to that (midlife, family, whatever) and here I am.

Thoughts, anyone?

PC

 

Love is a tough one. To be clear I'm not a virgin and had a number of shortish term relationships (initiated by women). Looking back I have one crush on a women during/after college (never really approached her, and when she dropped the hint at me a few years later I left her cold -- magic was gone/I was sorta bitter).

Guys are tougher still because I don't know how I "looked past" men all these years. In college I was a shameless flirt with a gay classmate. I chalked it up to nerves. To be fair to myself the marriage verdict changed the world for me. I was taught a very harsh view of gay men. Jesus camps are awesome like that /end rant.

The real joke is I can count the number of times I was the third wheel to one couple or another -- and more or less happy. Heck I was the "guy who lost out" for more than one woman/couple over the years and it didn't seem to phase me. After all, he's great too. It's their going on with life that tripped me up more than once.

Some fraction of me envies the poly-whatever kids these days. But I'm too possessive for that, I think.

To be honest I'm starting to accept that I grew up in a home that gave me a negative view on love and relationships of all types, much less sex and dating. Which makes looking back at romance sort of a nothing-burger (hence my problem).

I never had a dream girl/guy crush if that's what you mean. Looking at it now I had a rather repressed (even for the 90s) adolescence.

As sad/stereotypical as it is, I can remember the volleyball scene from Top Gun "catching my eye." But I can also remember the first time I saw a picture of a topless woman.

This might be the real question. Part of me says either, another part says neither. I think of the problems of making a life work with a man and my own baggage regarding that gets in the way. I think of a het life and all I can think of is my parents dysfunctional marriage. I really don't want to get into it but it's hard to look at things like that objectively when you remember being ten years old and your parents are having yet another argument an hour after bedtime. For years I felt (and maybe on some level still do) that marriage = unhappiness. I mean, marriage is a sacred institution where a man and a woman yell at each other every night until they die. /sarcasm

Both, to be simplistic about it. But it varies with my mood. I caught myself "proving" one thing or another once and I try to avoid that whenever possible. Now I try to either go where my interests take me or go do something more productive. On the straight side I find myself drawn to either soft "lesbian" or straight kink (for that I blame an ex girlfriend who was the 50 shades type). I'm drawn to gentler stuff when it involves men. "Vanilla" straight porn results in my searching for whatever I really want at that moment (be it guys or girls).

The big problem is my little community doesn't have the population to be either quietly out, on the down low or whatnot. I'm also at least a decade two old to fly the Bi flag. A guy in his twenties with an active social circle can pull that off. Not a guy near 40. Or at least not me. But these are really just excuses.

My old plan was to get "me" settled then build a new social life (as either gay or straight). But assuming I'm Bi, in this town/area, feels more or less like asking "which team do you want to claim." I could date women, sure. Or men. But both (which I should probably do, for my own sanity if nothing else) No way. At least that's my gut feeling. The women will scream "gay" and the gay guys will scream "damaged goods" and I can just see the same script playing out over and over. Meet someone. Hit it off. Mention it before things get heavy (emotionally). Other party runs in terror. Repeat.

Part of me wishes I was more into sex so I could just shut up and throw myself at craiglist/wherever. Another part wishes I was bigger on relationships so I could throw myself at plenty of fish/whatnot and land a woman who's been around enough to value a well meaning guy.

"What's next" is a great point. I've probably gotten lost on "what is" and feel into personal-life/identity version of research paralysis. It's something I'll have to focus on. That, or become a monk (I've got the hermit part down).

Thanks again.

PC

 

Chip's test is what I meant.

That pretty much nails it. I was raised with the entire "it's a choice" mantra pounded into my head. But, if I'm honestly attracted to women, then I am and so on. But that's really just one step from "same-sex attraction"/conversion therapy land, isn't it? Just the long way around to "not being gay."

I've been meaning to man up and buy a copy of that book for a year. Guess the fact I'm avoiding having gay lit in my possession says something as well.

I did a few sessions with LGBT accepting (if not experienced) therapist. To be honest that was the one thing he pointed out that was of any real use. Three sessions and anything useful was managed in the first five minutes. I stopped because I felt discounted. I don't know if I came across more together than I am or something, but I felt the same dealing with a therapist as I did anyone else (friends, family). "Here's PC, a big healthy white dude who clearly has no problems. What's he complaining about?"

To be honest I'm not ready to go back (anywhere) or try again because I don't feel it was worth much. It is good advice (therapy) but it isn't something I can follow at the moment.

Thanks again, SiennaFire, you tend to cut right to the point. I have a lot to think about (and a book to track down).

PC

 

I think you're right about therapy but if you go into anything expecting it to fail there isn't much point. Maybe later. Right now I'm almost/sometimes feel "did that ,didn't work, check it off the list" which isn't helpful.

The weird thing is -- and this might be my location/situation -- but it feels like I have no choices at all.

I should explain. I'm about 2 1/2 hours from a major city, 4-5 from another. My town is one of those "big for the area" cities, where most times people make do/make it work rather than travel. But it has a small town gossip mind, or at least it feels that way.

Even today (and I work nights and keep to myself) I still run into people who knew me ten years ago, from another job or school or a friend of a friend.

In this town there's no such thing as Bi or questioning. At least not for my generation/age. I felt that way at 14 and I'll feel that way at 40. I know if I take one step out the metaphorical closet I'll be stamped "gay" regardless of who I am and what I want or don't. Some people have the strength of character not to care. I just can't handle being labeled. I'm me. Go to hell, people. It's the same reason I avoided the town's gay bar in my twenties as it all the single girls loved the place.

Easy to blame where you're at for inaction but I can't help but think it would be nice to be somewhere larger, where no one knows you and if they do they've got better things to worry about.

I've making too much out of it, I'm sure of it. It just feels like my choices are being made for me. Straight, gay or sneaking around on craigslist. There is a seedy (at least in my book) hookup crowd in town (been that way for years) but that drags up a pile of "gays are evil sex fiends" programming I can't really deal with. That and I'm almost 39, that's like 90 in straight years So I don't know if that's something I even want.

I'm probably making too much out of everything. I can handle not being straight. I just hate the idea of being pigeon holed/labeled/whatever. I'm sure it's something I need to work on.

Thanks again SiennaFire.

PC

 

You're right. But "can't decide/admit what I want" + "the store (life) will be closing soon" = one neurotic non-young man. I've heard about second adolescence and such but it would be really nice to skip the angst. Or whatever this is.

I've thought this more than once. When I was first getting honest with myself I didn't ask, "who do you want to wake up with," but "who you do want to shouting match with in the driveway?" Which is clearly how relationships work, right?

I should clarify. And this is just my perception but this town has a "gay scene" that consists of out people, the bar, and straight tourists. I mean even in the 90s it was common for the straight guys to follow the girls there. Disneyland gay, for lack of a better word. Then there's the smut store just outside of town. Truckstop/cruising gay might be what I meant. Which is just more than I can handle.

Thank you for the encouragement. It helps. I just wish I didn't feel like such a nutcase. I know I overthink myself/life but it feels like every time I reach some point of clarity the rest of my life goes out of focus. I also wonder if I'm turning this place into a crutch to avoid dealing with my reality, in reality.

Thanks again, everyone

PC

 

I don't really know where I want to go either, Siennafire, but I think you're right. And this is the second or third time I've found myself trying to take action only to spend just as much time giving reasons not to. I'm probably just using this place as a crutch. The illusion of progress.

Thanks again for your time.

PC

 

You're right. There's no reason for me to sit on my butt and whine. If bigoted, closeted preachers can manage a double life for years I could at least keep off the gossip train (as if it really matters). Plus a larger city might/would have more guys in my demographic (aka too old for the club) which doesn't hurt. I could save up and hit Pride weekend, if nothing else.

I've got to start working on my "cans" and stop building whiner-forts out of "can'ts." Which is what everyone's been telling me for a couple years now.

First, thank you (and everyone in this thread) Some times hearing something (even for the tenth time) only works if you can see them coming from a similar place before it clicks.

I've got to stop asking the world's permission to be me (which is all this angst really is) and get on with it. It's clear I've got a real problem self-validating myself which makes the rest of this impossible. It's probably part of the reason therapy didn't seem to work, or why I'm carrying the baggage I am.

I mean a person with even a basic amount of self image and self respect wouldn't spend their time asking the universe's permission. They would just do it or not do and then feel guilty about it or not.

Easier said than done but at least it makes sense. Unlike whining that the world doesn't give you a neon lit path with flashing signs on how to live your life. I see myself doing this same thing in other parts of my life (and been told so offline) So it fits. I just wasn't hearing it.

Thanks again, everyone. Sometimes it takes a village to clue-in an idiot.

PC

 

That would be the wise thing to do as it's exactly what I don't want to do. I really should put a reading list together and educate myself. It's not much of a start but still a start. The rest I'll have to take as it comes.

I know there's The velvet rage, and Overcoming the shame that binds you (Bernard Shaw iirc) but after that I draw a blank. Any suggestions?

Thanks again.

PC

 

Library was a miss (catalog is online, so didn't check in person). Checked the town's one book store (don't bother with the bible store, for some reason) and it seemed a bigger miss than I remembered.

Ordered the paperback from Amazon (not a second party), should be here in 4-5 days. Not sure how I feel about it. Guess I'll find out.

Thanks again.

PC.