Seeking advice

So I'm not a parent. But reading your post made me remember my dad doing something similar to this. All I can say is, when mom told me there full story (even the parts she looked bad in) we become soon l do much closer. Hope all works out.

 

Oh boy. I'm so sorry to hear all of this. Your ex wife is doing a terrible disservice to your kids--terrible. I think the thing to do is to *always* show up for your parenting time, even if your kids are being kind of awful, *never* bad mouth their mother in front if them (not even a little), and be as warm and loving and present with them as you can be, as often as you can be. Be relentlessly accepting of them too, and trust that they are letting you in as much as they are able to under the circumstances. They, alongside side you, are in a terrible position, mostly generated by bad behavior from your ex.

Honestly, this may not result in you "getting them back" any time soon, or at all. I mean, maybe it will, but maybe not. You really don't have any control over that. You can just control you, not your kids or your ex. I think it might also be helpful for you to shift your focus away from "how do I get them back" to "how can I be the very best dad possible under the circumstances." Then take comfort in knowing you are doing everything you can and leave the rest up to them.

 

Hi father76,

I don't have personal experience with the situation that you describe because I came out to my kids shortly after coming out to my wife. What I can say is that based on talking to other gay dads in real life most of the time children want a relationship with their gay dad, so I'm optimistic that the situation can be repaired.

It would be helpful to understand why you have been so reluctant to come out to your children. Is your family deeply religious? Do you have internalized homophobia? Understanding your reticence is an important first step before trying to repair the relationship.

I'm wondering if/to what extent they feel left out because you had been living this secret life. Perhaps they wanted to be part of the wedding or meet your husband?

My sense is that you need to have a heart-to-heart conversation with your children where you apologize for not being forthright about your sexuality, explain the reasons for your reluctance, and then offer your side of the story. You probably want to vet this advice with others who have been in a similar situation.

Hopefully some other folks on EC who have faced a similar situation will be able to advise you on how they repaired their relationship with their children after it had been poisoned by their ex.

 

Hi father76, welcome to EC!

A lot of damage has been done with this kind of, for lack of a better term, abuse of her privilege with the children.

They are also adolescents, so you are simultaneously dealing with that aspect of things; the last thing they want is to interact with parental drama, as they have enough of their own.

Try going to the Colage website, there is a wealth of advice in there for how to introduce the subject to your kids.

Next, interact with them as best and as often as you can, even if it is only several phone calls during the week.

Instead of asking them the standard, "so how is school, your week, etc." ask them who their friends are and whether they need anything from you. Don't expect an answer right away, but just keep at it. If there is one thing you can count on, it's that they will eventually need something from you. When they do ask, make a commitment and stick to it, without hesitation, and as soon as possible. Consider these as opportunities to reconnect.

You may also find that talking about your life, your work and other interests will also light up their curiosity, I've tried this and it works.

Remind them always that you are there for them, day or night. And be there for them! Tell your kids that if they need a lift, even if it's 2 in the morning, they are to call you. Tell them that you will even drive them if they are not comfortable driving with someone they perceive to be a reckless driver.

Before you have any heart-to-heart with them, read the Colage website and learn as much as you can. Be open to the possibility that they may want to talk about it...the key word is patience.

 

Can you put yourself in your kids shoes for a minute? You got married without telling them, to someone (regardless of gender) and have this whole life away from them? Even if their mother never says a word about you to them, your oldest two are likely pretty hurt.

I would push for some kind of family therapy (you and the kids). But unless you don't have to consult your EX for medical treatment (per the divorce decree) I don't think you should do this behind their back.

Do you have weekend visitation that the kids aren't coming on? If so, you can certainly take the mom back to court to enforce it and you will probably win. But you want your kids to want to be with you, so perhaps the compromise your are seeking is some kind of therapy in the short term.

Do you ever go eat lunch with your youngest at school? Attend their athletic events, dance recitals, whatever. Being present is very important in helping to rebuild the relationship.

PS I expect that your EX might argue that you cheating had a lot to do with the divorce. If it comes up with your kids, handle that with great care.

 

I'm sorry to hear that a homophobic religion is being used to fuel the hatred of your own children against you; this is wrong on so many levels (*hug*) Needless to say, please be extra measured in crafting your response to this hatred and bigotry.

 

I have first-hand experience with this situation, but I am the parent my kids like. Two of my kids (now 16 and 18) don't want a relationship with their mother.

I also have two friends in this exact situation, where their wives regularly bad-mouth them to their pre-teen and teenage kids. In one case, the dad came out to his kids early on, in another he still has not.

In my own situation, I feel bad for my ex. The kids are totally brutal to her. I don't support their attitude and I do everything I can to encourage good behavior and family harmony. Even so, holidays and birthdays are never fun and there's always a 50% chance a fight will break out or the kids will be so nasty to my ex (behind my back) that I get to hear about it from her for hours the following day.

Although I'm the gay one, my kids don't think their mother did right by me or them. And despite all her efforts over the past five years to get into their good graces, they are no more forgiving or kind now than they were in the beginning.

I could be wrong about this, of course, but my intuition is that my wife makes it easy for the kids to be abusive because she's always eager to interact with them. She comes off as needy and the kids feed off of that. I've told my ex MANY times to back off but she can't do it. She makes herself easy to kick around and that's exactly what they do.

In the case of my one friend who came out to his kids when they were in their teens and is now married to a man, he has changed tactics over the years. Early on, he was hungry for their acceptance and approval. Eventually two of the three of them came around, sort of. Those relationships are now cordial but self-serving. They only proactively contact him when they want something, usually money. The middle kid is totally under the influence of the mother and her attitude has not changed. He continues to try to chip away at her. She is 22. He came out about 5 years ago.

My other friend has four children, ages 9 - 16. He has very good relationships with the three younger ones and there's been a recent thaw with the oldest. My friend is an extremely dedicated dad and never says anything bad about his ex to his kids, although she's brutal about him. She's been on a real rampage lately so he's very concerned about any damage she could cause with the kids, especially since he is not out to them. No one knows of course, but I believe he will always be loved and accepted by his kids because he's always been genuinely devoted to them, and he's positive to be around. I suspect that as the kids get older they will come to resent their mother's negativity and they will distance themselves from her. Their parents' contrasting styles have got to have an impact. It's hard to imagine her negativity will win out but maybe I'm biased in my friend's favor.

Based on all that I know about these situations and teenagers in general, my suggestion for you is to be brutally honest with the older two. Give them the facts of who you are and what you've done, accept blame for your mistakes with complete humility, tell them how much they mean to you, tell them what kind of relationship you want with them, then put the onus for the future squarely on their shoulders. Tell them part of your self-imposed punishment is that you will not contact them or ask for anything from them. Tell them it is entirely up to them to reach out to you to remake your relationship in a way that works for them and you. Then, tell them you won't contact them on their birthdays or holidays, but OF COURSE you'll be thinking of them and OF COURSE you'll have gifts for them. That way, if or when they want a renewed, meaningful relationship with you, you'll be ready to celebrate all the occasions you missed. Essentially, make yourself their invisible guardian angel that can only speak to them when they talk first.

I suggest this approach because it's what I know would work with my kids. If my ex said this to them they wouldn't instantly want to reconcile but in time I know they'd miss her. Without having her to kick around, they'd be much more focused on what they actually want from a relationship with her, not what she keeps trying to push on them. I just know that when the time was right, they'd reach out to her and be far nicer than they have been for the past five years. The way it is now is not working. She just longs for their approval which only serves to empower them and encourages them to abuse that power.

 

I have to give you a bit of tough love. As much as I understand that coming out can be extremely difficult under certain circumstances, it's absolutely a conversation you should have had with your kids before you got married.

I don't know your ex and have no insight into her mindset beyond what you wrote here, but I wouldn't assume she was doing it for "revenge". As a parent, she was between a rock and a hard place with you lying by omission. It's awful that she's homophobic, and I'm very sorry about that, but it's not entirely surprising that she told her kids the truth.

What's done is done, and all you can do now is be honest with your kids, apologise for keeping this from them, and seek family counseling. If your ex is homophobic, then it's all the more important that you discuss this stuff with them and try to counteract it.

Best of luck with everything.

 

father76,

I have a slightly different perspective here. Shoulding others and beating them up for not coming out sooner is neither helpful nor constructive. What's done is done and shoulding all over after the fact wastes energy that could be used to love your children. Please stay positive during this difficult time.

(&&&)

 

Before you go with them to therapy, you need to meet with a family therapist on your own.
What would happen if you wrote them a note, perhaps some of the posters here could read what you might write them and give you feedback. I think you should be with them when they read it, so you can answer questions, etc. You might want to seek advice from a therapist about all this as well.

The therapist isn't to make your kids "better" in my opinion. In other words, you can't present it that way. There isn't anything broken in them, rather I would present it as a safe place for them to communicate their concerns with you and help restore your relationship with them. Again, the therapist can help you communicate this part.

How does your life work right now? Where is your spouse when you have your kids?

And yes, for some, cheating is a betrayal that they never recover from.