As I've talked about on others threads, I'm at a weird point. Being married, but really wanting to explore these feelings for women. So, I've decided the start of this is to go out and make lgbt friends and meet bi and lesbian women. To be open to flirtation, let my defences down, just feel things with women. Maybe make a real connection, but not to cheat on my husband. And my calm, clear-headed side says this is rational, that it's best to just think about this step, not get ahead of myself. But... There's so many things that make it feel more complicated. How do you for example skirt that line between flirtation and showing interest in going further? I'm not good at this at all. For example, I've been texting with someone I met at the last meetup. It seems innocent enough to me, but honestly, I don't know. And really, truthfully, I want to do more than flirt with women, I want to connect, romantically, intimately. How do I express myself honestly and genuinely if I'm holding back some of my feelings because of constraints of my marriage? So...again, what am I doing? I know what my plan is, I know why I'm trying to do it this way, but I just don't know where it's taking me. I've got another meetup tomorrow, but I may not even make it because I've not been feeling well...this one seems a bit ambiguous to me, not sure if most people are there to make friends, or looking for romance. I'm feeling totally out of my element here, and I don't know how to do this...
Your goal is to gather information and experiences that will help you gain clarity regarding what to do about your marriage. My suggestion would be to go and connect with the LGBT community and learn what it means to be queer as part of the LGBT community. I think it's dangerous for you to flirt unless you caveat that you are married and your goal is to window shop and engage with the LGBT community. Otherwise this has the potential to get muddled very quickly. If you're already at a point where you want to get intimate with other women, then you need to have a conversation with your husband before you go further down this path. HTH
SiennaFire is spot on. Having done more than window shopped, fallen in love with someone other than my spouse and then having to admit the emotional and physical infidelity as part of the coming out process, I'd urge you to think strongly about what you and your husband can handle both individually and as a couple before you allow yourself to be swept up in discovering and experiencing something that neither of you may be ready to handle.
(*hug*) If you find it, tell me, I need a guide book.:help: ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2016 at 03:06 AM ---------- Everything you say here is sensible and rational, but I suppose it's hard for me to be rational at this point because this whole thing is very emotional for me. It sounds like you're suggesting just to simply make friends in the lgbt community, build a community, build confidence, gain exposure, talk to others, etc. I know that's rational and right, and I want that. But truth be told, I'm starting to find this internal drive for more. It makes me happy to be more open, to feel my feelings for women without capping them off or subduing them in some way. I'm ready to be bold and enjoy being me, the full me. That doesn't mean I have to sleep with a woman right now to feel like this experience in meeting eomrn is fulfilling, but I do feel I need to feel and express some level of attraction. Not push it away, let it be part of my experience. So I don't really know how to go out and make lgbt friends and not also allow myself to be open to this other side of it on some level. In terms of being ready to be intimate with other women, I'm not sure ready is the right word. I *want* that, very much so, and have always on some level wanted that. But I haven't yet reached a point where I'm comfortable enough with myself or with any one particular woman such that I could go that far at the moment. In terms of my marriage, I guess what I'm trying to learn right now is something about what does it mean for me that I want this intimate connection with a woman? I already know one thing I need, but I'm trying to figure whether I need another aspect as well. I know that I need to experience overcoming my fear, I need to feel I can be open and let my defences down, that essentially I'm not denying these feelings, not living out of shame, insecurity, fear. That I can look a woman in the eye, show her that I find her attractive, and enjoy those feelings that come with being honest and open. What I'm not sure yet is - do I need more than that? Do I need to have a woman in my life or at least can I not be satisfied with the life I have with my husband, because the feelings I have for women are deeper, touch something closer my core needs. If it's just the former, this need to overcome an internal hurdle? I know I am not straight, I need to at some point in my life stsrt living in a way that is congruent with that. I'm deeply attracted to women, and it's important for me to lead my life in a way that incorporates that part of me. The question I'm wrestling with is, does this need come down to simply being authentic about my feelings, acknowledging them and overcoming my fear? Or does if require me to carve out a space for me to build s true fulfilling meaningful relationship with a woman? I was hoping I could learn that through these new experiences and then take on that question as the answer starts becoming clearer. ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2016 at 03:11 AM ---------- I can't edit... I was intending to say, if it's only the former thing I nedd, to overcome my shame snd fear, if that's enough for me to feel I incorporated my sense of being queer into my life, then it is compatible with my marriage. But if I need more, if I need to have a woman in my life or find that my husband doesn't satisfy my emotionsl needs, then of course my marriage is not going to work. ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2016 at 03:12 AM ---------- Thanks
I know....this is a fear I have...I don't know what I'm getting myself into, I want to keep this at the moment to discovering, learning, exploring. I have to try to figure out what I can do to keep it to "window shopping". I guess simply dropping into conversation that I'm not single... ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2016 at 03:39 AM ---------- Siennafire - Sorry to keep adding things, but another thought came to mind. Aside from labels, I guess this partially comes down to a distinction between I'm bi but for all intents and purposes I might as well be gay because a relationship that's not with a woman is not satisfying to me VS I'm bi, leaning towards women but I happened to marry a man and he fulfills my emotionsl needs, so it's all good. It doesn't negate the need for this elementary step for me to get more in touch with my feelings for women. As long as I've *never* discarded my shame and as long as I've never expressed this part of myself that is a big part of the core me, I won't feel like fully realised person. And I'm hoping this steos leads me to clarity in the above question.
I'm going to look at this thread again later tonight or tomorrow. There are a lot of thoughts and feelings swirling around in your head, and I haven't discerned the gestalt. At some level this is very simple, yet you continue to add complexity when a reductionist perspective is called for.
I think I've managed to discern the main crux of what I'm trying to say (sometimes I ramble only to realise I've really got one or two important kernels of truth in there). Basically, I'm sure of a couple things, but I'm unsure of one thing. First, I know I'm not straight. I know I have strong feelings for women, and that this is a truth that is important to the core of who I am. Second, I know I need to make changes to become a fuller person. A huge, probably most essential change is, I need to embrace my sexuality more completely. To feel more comfortable with myself and to know that I am capable of living out a true reflection of my inner feelings, rather than burying them. This would come with simply interacting with women and being comfortable with whatever I feel and with small gestures of flirtation. The one thing I'm not sure of is whether I need more than that - if I merely need to embrace my sexuality the way I've just described, then i suppose that's compatible with my marriage. But perhaps I also need a deeper fuller experience, perhaps a deeper connection, intimacy, romance etc with a woman. I know at this point that I desire something like this, but I'm not sure yet if it's something I need. I hope that makes more sense :eusa_doh:
Here are my thoughts without reading your reduction. Despite my best attempts at being the voice of reason , you want to engage with the LGBT community and part of that means being open to your feelings towards other women. You don't want to bridle or restrain your passion. You see this as an intermediate step for you - to let down your guard and be open to your feelings towards other women and overcome whatever feelings get in the way, such as shame or fear. This is a prerequisite for being physically intimate with another woman. Unfortunately you are on a slippery slope where you want to open yourself up to your emotions and passion and remain faithful to your husband. At some point your goals are in conflict if not managed. I want to point this out and let you make your own decisions. The exercise of finding the right label can be exhausting. Took me a while to figure out that I'm a Kinsey 5 bisexual, which I round up to gay in the real world. At this stage it's sufficient to understand whether you have a stronger attraction to women, to men, or equally so. Armed with this information, you can narrow in on your orientation like the optometrist (is #1 the best or #2 the best?). I will point out that if your attraction to women is stronger, then it's likely that you will be more satisfied with a romantic relationship with a woman (by definition of sexual orientation).
While we stated things differently, we agree on the salient points You are queer and don't need to pick a label today. Connecting with the LGBT community is a way to discover and embrace your sexuality. The feasibility of embracing your sexuality while remaining married is the big unknown and the question that needs to be addressed. The thing that TAXODIUM and I want to bring to your attention is that fully embracing your sexuality and passion can lead to infidelity. Hopefully you'll stop yourself before doing something that's against your stated goals and would introduce additional pain and hurt into the marriage (This is a pragmatic concern. I'm agnostic regarding the morality of cheating).
Damnit, don't make me listen to reason!:icon_wink I guess I'm thinking that I just don't want to suppress myself anymore. I know you're right, it carries risks. I have to think about how I feel about that risk. I agree, I actually think it will be a long time before I can really know the answer to this, and I am not too stressed about it right now. I do have this recurring question about why certain things are missing in my relationships... but I don't know that this will fully be answered by understanding my orientation better.
Yes, these are spot on. OK so, maybe I should say at this point. I know that I want to honour my husband's feelings and our marriage contract. But truthfully, I don't value monogamy that highly. I value honesty, and I value my husband's feelings. But I would be ok with an open marriage (on my husband's side too of course), even without having come out of the closet. I say this with experience - I was in a very long term (6 years) committed, non-monogamous relationship. It was fairly uncomplicated. Neither of us really did much outside of our partnership, but there was something about it that made me feel I could grow. Given that, it's a bit conflicting to me to think that I have this very (to me) arbitrary contract to honour, even though I have a very important part of myself that requires some freedom in order to grow. But, I suppose this goes far beyond questions of monogamy anyway. So I'm trying not to let those feelings spill over into my struggle with trying to explore who I am.
