I'm probably at a Kinsey 5. I talked more with my wife last night. She is under the hopes that because I am insecure with hetero male bonding, didn't get along well with dad, bullied as a child, etc., that counseling will somehow "change" my thoughts. I told her that these homoerotic feelings are always going to be a part of me and that I was going to have to embrace these feelings. They weren't going to go away. I told her that I was always going to have to have a release while we are married and told her that I was going to have to view gay porn to satisfy my needs. She is open to that. We are back into the honeymoon phase of our relationship (after going on 17 years of marriage). We hadn't been intimate for almost 2 years. We are both going to seek counseling, we have joined a D1 Sports Training class together where we can workout in groups of people, we both had weight loss surgery (I've gone from 300lbs to 195lbs and she has gone from 310lbs to 240lbs). We are in a situation right now where she has no family other than me and our son. It would be devastating to both of us what she would have to go through alone if we split right now. I have always been a home body. That's one of the things I'm going to work with my counselor. I need to break this cycle and get out and meet and get comfortable being around hetero men and work on friendships. In doing so, she can also make new friends and get to being more comfortable with other people. This D1 class I feel will be a huge point in starting with this. I have told her that if she ever feels that the marriage is not working for her, that it's ok to tell me and she told me to tell her the same thing. I know she and I could both be happier with a different person, but there is a huge fear of the unknown. We can ride this out for a while so she can get back in her career, meet and make new friends. Right now I am very comfortable with her knowing that I will be having to use gay porn for a release. NO CHAT ROOMS FOR ME THOUGH, at least until we get to the point where we are separating. If you've read any of my other posts, the chat rooms were a huge emotional pull on me, I had no problems until I got very close to a guy in one of the chat rooms. It was so easy being open and free and could tell him anything. We became very close which put me in a whole different universe. I know eventually, my wife and I will split. When I know she will be able to have friends around her to comfort her and/or (I know this is horrible for a husband to say) she has someone actually catch her eye that she falls head over heals in love with and is ready to kick me to the curb. I know there are things I need to think about and things that may not have yet come to mind. I look forward to seeing your questions and responses.
Wow. If this is how my wife and I approach our situation I wouldn't be happier moving forward. What your are doing takes discipline and a great measured approach; a plan. What we all need. I would find it hard to restrict myself from chatting and meeting guys but it sounds like it's what you need to do. Great example. Thanks for sharing.
Brian, I am not saying this will happen to you, but me and my wife had a lsimilar agreement where I could go to support groups and my hiking groups for friendship and that we would use toys for me, but that didn't last long, so I had to give up everything that was agreed to
Hey Brian, Congratulations on the weight loss. You must be looking great! I'm also a Kinsey 5, so I can relate to a lot of what you are going through and hopefully can offer a perspective from the other side. While the plan makes sense at some level, I hope you realize that you are taking a baby step rather than confronting the issues in your marriage head on. In all fairness, you recognize later in your post that separation is inevitable, so I'm guessing that you realize that the plan is not viable in the long term. I was also a homebody until I came out, and now I have a ton of gay friends. I'm not entirely sure why you need to get comfortable around straight men. Wouldn't it make more sense to meet and get comfortable with other gay men? While limiting yourself to a release via gay porn and being transparent about it is noble, I feel that you are not being true to yourself by avoiding chat rooms. This is an activity that brought you real happiness and connection with another guy, so I'm not entirely sure why you are walking away from it. I know that you are still processing your emotions after having been outed via FB, so you are probably uncertain about whether or not you want to save your marriage. Please continue to share your thoughts and feelings here. Hugs (*hug*)
Hey Brian You seem like a really great guy and I find it really commendable that you are standing by your wife in this. BUT, you need to be sure that you are getting what you need in this interim time. That may mean getting out and meeting guys...gay men too. You don't have to have sex with them. Just start flirting, sharing, engaging...all of that. You should not feel you need to limit who you see and talk to. I am a closeted bisexual and my wife has no problem with me hanging out with a man who she knows propositioned me...you need to be able to exercise some freedom. You and your wife can set some limits but be sure you can live with them.
Sienna and Nick, I would love to be selfish and be completely on my own, where I could be with whomever I wanted to be with, but I have to there for my family too. My wife isn't working right now, I can't afford to take care of two households, my wife has no other family, and just frankly as the old saying goes I made my bed. When things are better and she is more able to take care of herself, then and only then would I be able to live with myself. If I left right now, there is no way I could be happy. Sienna, you asked me why I would want to become friends with heterosexual men. The reason is I've always wanted to feel comfortable around other men and I never have. I would like to really know for sure out of curiosity how my sexual feelings would be if I were more comfortable around hetero men. Not saying it would "cure" me, just wondering if the sexual attraction would become less intense.
Hey Brian I do not think you need to leave the marriage to do a bit of socializing with gay men. It is not selfish of you to explore this side of yourself with some innocent interchanges to begin to understand your feelings and feel like you can begin to express yourself. I am not suggesting that you abandon your family at all. I am impressed by your devotion.
Since you identify as gay, it's unlikely your feelings around hetero men would impact your sexual orientation or attraction to other guys since being gay is part of who you are like your eye color and not a choice (unless you were sexually abused as a child, which complicates things). It's more likely that your being gay impacts how you feel around hetero men. Perhaps you feel some attraction that makes you uncomfortable. Perhaps you feel less of a man because you are gay. I agree with Nickw that while your taking care of your family is noble, it's OK to start to exploring your gay side (socializing) before you move out. Otherwise you are effectively back in the closet, which could impact you in not so obvious ways.
It's interesting because I haven't thought about the need to socialize with gay men just because they're gay. But then last night I came across an informative website that sort of changed my feelings about that. The site is mixedorientation.com and it's a guide for those who choose to live in a mixed orientation marriage. The advice is not about suppressing your sexual identity, but how to be satisfied while remaining with a straight spouse. There's information about drawing boundaries and how to communicate what your needs are, and it includes a variety of options. One thing that's mentioned is hanging out with a group of gay friends just to feel you're around your peers without the pressure of feeling you have to hook up, etc. I directly told my wife the other day that I was not willing to suppress my sexual identity if we choose to continue living together and I felt this article was helpful in not only validating that, but offered solutions that may satisfy me and may also not be threatening to her.
My situation is a bit different. That is bi and closeted. But, I have always gone out and socialized with men and sort of know how to flirt. I live in an area where people are very open so the risks of running into someone who is a homophobe are pretty low. I can do this without, really, outing myself because, while a totally open conversation would be best, it is not necessary to have a bit of the interactions that I need. Part of my thing is knowing that my attraction to men is there and that I can be attractive to them. Sort of continual validation. It is funny that I plan on staying with my wife forever yet I still want this to be a part of me. More often than not the guys I approach are straight (probably) but it is still really fun to engage, make some eye contact, occasional touching (non sexual). I have only a couple times had this get close to a hookup. Usually, I backoff before it goes too far. Although there is one guy that I cannot get out of my mind...which I don't mind. It is easy for me as my wife does not have a problem with me heading down to a bar, out to a bike trail or wherever to do this. Sometimes she will be with me but probably doesn't really understand what I am doing. If she did, it might even be more fun!
I do find her paying more attention nowadays as to what I'm doing. This weekend was just one of those days that I was down and wanted to kind of be by myself. She wanted to discuss things. I told her it was just one of those days that I was wanting to be by myself and think, she kept wanting to press it. She was really trying to help. I just told her I was having one of those down days like she gets every once in a while where she just doesn't know what it is, just a bad day. She finally left it at that. For the first couple of years after we were married and I couldn't "perform" with her like I figured I'd "learn" or somehow "be more into women" (she was the first woman I was ever intimate with), I couldn't stand going anywhere without her or be away from her for very long. Just going to work was agonizing. I just knew that she was going to end up leaving me. As time went on, even though the intimacy never really bloomed, we just started kind of getting used to the lack thereof and we were just kind of complacent with living with each other (pretty much each taking care of ourselves) and I learned how to live this way. I still had the sadness that I was taking away from her and I had told a therapist this and the therapist basically told me that if she didn't want to live that way, it was up to her and I just needed to relax and let her be her. Well, a few days ago, my wife told me she was having those same feelings that I had back in the beginning where she didn't want to be away from me. Anytime I'm away from her side for very long, she comes looking for me. I have lived with these hurting feelings for almost 17 years now and I know it will hurt in the beginning to let go, but I know as time goes on, things will get better for both of us. I'm still going to wait until she is back to working, not going to leave her stranded in anyway. I have my first therapy session today and I don't know if 1 hour will be long enough.
Brian, When I first came out to my wife just over two years ago, I told her pretty much what you told your wife--that I needed time and space to find support and a community. We agreed to wait a year and then decide what to do about our marriage. But a couple of months later, she was quite angry about the one evening and one weekend day that I was away. (The evening was to attend a support group for gay and bi men who are married to women; the weekend day was to spend time with a young friend who was openly gay, but who didn't yet know my status.) None of my time away was anything but social; I was not, and had never been, unfaithful to her. But I think her sense of abandonment was just so strong that she couldn't handle this. And so, finally, after just 4 months, we separated. Now, my situation is quite different from yours. I have no children, which makes my situation a bit simpler. But my wife has been deeply depressed since her teens, which has made my situation very difficult. Fast forward almost two years, and each of us describes the other as our best friend. Our divorce will be final in a couple of months, but we remain strongly present in each other's lives. I have a boyfriend who moved in with me a month ago, and I've never been happier with my life than I am at this moment. But my wife's depression is still a factor in both of our lives, and, even though she finally has some friends and a much more active social calendar, she remains very lonely. As she puts it, the evenings stretch out long and empty. All of this is by way of background info... What I want to say, I think, is that coming out, accepting and eventually celebrating my sexuality, and working to redefine my relationship with my wife while still being a strong emotional and physical support to her, have been the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I don't regret it for a minute now, but I know that many of my fears about coming out were real and justified: I don't yet know whether there really is a bed of roses further on in this journey, I do know that there are a lot of hot coals to walk over along the way.
Thanks for replying Stillaround. I believe for sure we will separate at some point, when I don't know. My wife is still under the assumption that I can be "fixed" no matter what I've told her. I'm hoping that her therapist can help her to understand what I can't. When we do separate, I have no doubts that we will both remain very strong influences in each others lives. I will always be supportive of her and I believe she will be supportive of me. Only time will tell.
Hey Brians, waving at you from Texas I live in a pretty small town 3600+, and I just did wedding invitations for a male male couple a few months ago. I think everyone's quieter here than other places, but there is some community. Don't give up, heck put out an ad on Craigslist, where is everybody hanging out? Or something like that.
