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Bisexual Marriage

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Nickw, Mar 29, 2016.

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  1. Nickw

    Nickw
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    I am still working on officially coming out to my wife as a bisexual and trying to figure out how that should work. I am not really looking for advice on that right now since everyone was so helpful earlier and I am charting my course based on some of those suggestions and some life issues.

    "Herewego" provided a link in another thread "mixedorientation.com". This "guide" is an excellent quick read on some of the pitfalls and success ideas for a mixed straight/bisexual marriage. But, some of the ideas may work for a gay/straight marriage too. Thanks for the link.

    The parallels between the author and me are numerous including me telling my wife years ago and her "forgetting" it. So, now I need to prepare for the "second coming out". He also mentions getting some "innocent" gay time with other guys which I have done most of my life.

    I am interested in hearing from other married bisexuals about how, in particular, their gay side is satisfied in a monogamous, or mostly monogamous, marriage.
     
    #1 Nickw, Mar 29, 2016
  2. CameronBayArea

    CameronBayArea
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    Because finding sex with men is easy, I'm guessing you're looking for non-sexual ways of satisfying your gay side. Is that correct? Basically: how can you develop LGBT friendships?

    Meetups, events and activities sponsored by the local LGBT center, support groups, LGBT-oriented hobby and sports groups, LGBT-friendly church groups - those are pretty much the best ways to meet others.

    Of course, meeting is the first step. Usually, developing a friendship requires spending time together, preferably on a semi-regular basis.

    This is why interest groups, sports groups and support groups are ideal. While going to an LGBT picnic can be fun, it's not as easy to parlay that into regularly hanging-out with people you happen to meet there.
     
    #2 CameronBayArea, Mar 29, 2016
  3. Adray

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    I'm really interested in hearing from other married bisexuals, too - great topic, Nickw.

    I've shared this before, but I'll add it again: my wife has known I'm bisexual for a long time (she is straight), and it works for us. Monogamy is important to both of us. We *do* occasionally get into some kinky roleplay involving my same-sex attraction side... not all the time, but it's fun when we do. I don't know if I'd call it my "gay" side, but I can see how others might use that term. It's fun, great mind sex, and physically satisfying too. Most of the time, though, we do things most opposite-sex couples like to do. Don't know if that's oversharing... LOL. It certainly meets the "on-topic" test, though.

    I'd like to hear from others on the topic, I'm very interested. Thanks for starting the topic!
     
    #3 Adray, Mar 29, 2016
  4. Nickw

    Nickw
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    More to the point is how other bisexuals have found ways to satisfy their gay sides in a marriage.

    I go out sometimes and flirt with men and then go home to my wife. Sometimes she is with me and I will be flirting in front of her and it turns me on. I go home and the sex can be great. We don't talk about my bi so I don't know if she sees this...but, that is beside the point. It is how I get some of my fix.

    Through most of my adult life I have had a lot of male friends and we are pretty open about our bodies...even though is is all "straight". IE I have gotten a lot of naked guy time out in the mountains and river trips...skinny dipping and so on.

    I am possibly looking at doing a little gay sexual exploration too. But, limited to what my wife may accept. Not an open marriage really. And, I am not sure how that would look.
     
    #4 Nickw, Mar 29, 2016
  5. HereWeGo

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    This is a great topic. Looking back, I realized you were looking for a bi perspective. I identify as gay but because I'm remaining monogamous, I'll throw in my two cents (and because I just typed out this whole answer).

    Because this is all so new to me, I think my needs will change over time. Before I came out, my sexuality was so pent up that I wanted to bang every dude in West Hollywood. But now that I'm open with my wife, I'm surprisingly not that interested in jumping down the rainbow rabbit hole.

    I'm so torn about whether or not I should attend LGBT events. Because I'm choosing to remain monogamous with my wife, I'm not looking for any male sexual gratification. I'm a little afraid I might be tempted in that environment. I also fear that if I go on an LGBT outing, I'll feel like an outsider because I'm choosing to be in a mixed orientation marriage, and that sounds so exhausting to explain. And what do people at LGBT events talk about that aren't talked about at other events? I'm curious, but sort of meh...

    Then there's a part of me that wants to go all out and attend my first gay pride parade... as a true gay person. I've been to them as a "straight" guy and been immensely jealous at how free everyone was as I stood in my hulking hetero shell.

    Nickw, I think it's cool that you're satisfied flirting with guys. You've never felt it was a slippery slope leading to other things? There's a guy that's flirted with me at the gym a few times, but I pretended I wasn't interested for fear of how far to take it. But I do look for him when I'm there and disappointed when he's not. I feel bad the couple times I flirted back because I felt like I was giving mixed messages. I feel like if I see him again I should just say "it's complicated."

    There are some gay art exhibits around town right now. Seems like good ways to explore my gay side: Robert Mapplethorpe at the LA Museum... and then today on NPR I heard about the Tom House, a craftsman style home in LA where Tom of Finland lived and still houses his work. OMG, I was getting worked up just listening to that story... Leather dudes standing around looking at TofF art. (Uh oh! I think I just exposed my gay kink!) :icon_wink
     
    #5 HereWeGo, Mar 29, 2016
  6. Nickw

    Nickw
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    Probably a better title may be mixed orientation marriages since the goals can be the same. Maintaining same sex attractions within a straight marriage.

    There is a risk that flirting is tempting something that I cannot back away from. But, I look at it this way...I have flirted with women of all ages my whole life and they flirt back. Somehow, I have not ended up in the sack with them so, why should it be any different with guys. It only once got out of hand...I fell for the guy...feeling was pretty mutual...but, he did not want to cheat on my wife so the deal was I had to clear it with her...of course that didn't happen. My wife knows about him (how can she not know I'm bi?)

    I wonder though if these same sex attractions cannot find their way into the marriage bed? Why not! I met a totally built guy on a biking outing and invited him to camp with my wife and me. Freaking hot dude! So, he put on a pretty good show taking his shower off the back of his truck! That night my wife and I were so turned on...it was really good for both of us! I thanked the guy...he knew what he was doing.

    Is there anything wrong with sharing these experiences with your wife in the interest of maintaining a marriage?

    ---------- Post added 29th Mar 2016 at 05:46 PM ----------

    googled Tom House. Great Craftsman...my style. Leather...not so much! But, take the wife and let her see what turns you on (my wife does know about my fetish for turn of the century bungalows).
     
    #6 Nickw, Mar 29, 2016
  7. HereWeGo

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    I love that both of you can get turned on by the same guy.

    I hope we get to a point where I can share these experiences with her. Right now, I think there would be too much jealousy on her end. This is all new to her so I understand. Gotta ease into things. That's why I think I'll share that mixed orientation website with her. I feel like it's non threatening and offers a lot of possibilities no matter what the comfort level. I'm not afraid to share my newly discovered self with her. There were so many things that turned me on that I felt like I had to keep secret before I came out so to openly be turned on and let her see me turned on is so freeing.
     
    #7 HereWeGo, Mar 29, 2016
  8. Nickw

    Nickw
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    This is what I don't know...when I come out officially...will this change? That is why I am interested in hearing what works for other guys, or gals in similar situations. Or, what fails too! My wife likes to parade the sports illustrated swim suit issue in front of me and have me choose my favorite...and I'm including some of the guys in swimsuits in the ads as part of the selection! Can I somehow make that good for my wife?
     
    #8 Nickw, Mar 29, 2016
  9. FalconBlueSky00

    FalconBlueSky00
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    Mmmm... Nickw from some of the things you said about the sharing shower, and her having you pick your favorites from the sports illustrated, I would think your wife has some clue about your interest in men even if she forgot you coming out to her. She sounds great, fun, and open minded.
     
    #9 FalconBlueSky00, Mar 29, 2016
  10. Nickw

    Nickw
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    Bunny she is great. This is the problem with not being completely honest. I'm a goof off about guys. I do a lot of gay acting out with friends as a way to express my bisexuality in a safe environment...dancing with guys, even making out when in costume with a straight friend. So, I don't know if my wife thinks I am just joking around to turn her on. We have had a lot of gay friends and family and in their support I will "out" myself in a crowd. But, I have never, actually, in a serious tone, told anyone of my bisexuality in 30 years and that was an academic conversation early in my relationship. "no one is completely straight..I know I'm not". My wife even has met my boyhood lover and he outed me to my whole high school class at a 20th reunion! No one believed it! Just Nick screwing around...

    Back to topic...Is joking around like that O.K. as a way to express your bisexuality?

    ---------- Post added 29th Mar 2016 at 07:08 PM ----------

    I should add that I don't believe in collateral damage. I never put someone else's feelings at risk when I do this joking around.
     
    #10 Nickw, Mar 29, 2016
  11. HereWeGo

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    Like Bunny said, sounds like your wife is pretty open minded. For arguments sake let's say that she really doesn't have a clue. The fact that she gets turned on by some of the things you do and things you look at together seems to indicate that she might be into it a bit. (I'm going off of the very little info you're giving me). Is there a time when she acknowledged that you flirting with a guy or you two mutually watching a dude take a shower out of the back of his truck turned her on? Maybe that's a way to open up to her. Maybe she's too shy to share that info with you. If she says yes it does turn her on, then you're the luckiest guy alive, because now you can live freely and do all the same stuff.

    That's a glass half full approach.

    I'd love it if my wife was as open minded. I keep waiting for her to ask me what type of guy I think are sexy and why. How weird it will be for us to compare guys together...

    Anyway, I hope I'm not straying too far off topic. But I envy that you got to live so openly while still being in the closet.
     
    #11 HereWeGo, Mar 29, 2016
  12. Nickw

    Nickw
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    The article, you provided, also mentioned that one of the risks of coming out and staying in a mixed orientation marriage is that the straight spouse may have doubts about the long term sustainability of the marriage because it is not enough for the gay/bisexual spouse. In my wife's (imagined) words "is he really gay and leave me as soon as he finds someone?"

    Why wouldn't there be doubts? On some level she knows about the same sex attractions, so why should I need to do this? "Why come out now? When does the other shoe drop?"

    In our case, our libidos do not match and I found out a couple days ago that my wife has some physical problems with sex. We can work through this because I really desire the intimacy with her. But, this may be very hard on her that she is not "satisfying me" even though she has known for twenty years that she really doesn't want to.

    The other risk (back on topic-I have all of the issues in the article) is that problems in the marriage (such as low levels of intimacy) may get blamed on the gay/bisexual spouse's sexual orientation when the real reasons are, mostly, unrelated. For this reason, I am really working with my wife to improve the marriage before coming out.

    In a way, a mixed orientation marriage could be good. Anything that forces a married couple to look for ways to keep a marriage active and fresh is good. Ultimately, I see some real advantages for our spouses and ourselves out of the sexual arena.

    Our wives are different. Your problem may be your wife doesn't want to share your sexual energy with someone else because she desires it. Mine may say "great, I was wishing he would find another hobby"! Another issue is how you raise children in a mixed orientation marriage. This is not an issue for me, but I could see this being an issue for a spouse who was raised in a traditional setting and feels it's important.

    Your other thoughts on opening up to my wife about what turns me on and getting it out in the open are right on. I wish I would have done this twenty years ago. I have learned on this forum just how important this openness is. A mixed orientation marriage (back on topic!) requires this full openness.

    Crudely..."How do we ge our same sex rocks off without destroying the marriage" "Can this be, actually, good for the marriage?"
     
    #12 Nickw, Mar 30, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  13. SiennaFire

    SiennaFire
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    When I identified as bisexual, I developed some interesting ideas. I think the institution of marriage is a bit of an anachronism, especially for bisexuals because it forces us to limit sexual expression to the gender of the person with whom we are monogamous. Since bisexuals are capable of loving both guys and gals, I suggest that bisexual monogamy can include 2 relationships (one same sex/one opposite sex) in order to be true to ourselves. I realize that society is decades away from accepting this idea fully, but I thought I'd stimulate discussion with it.

    Of course the reality in 2016 is that most spouses operate within the heteronormative paradigm and expect us to choose monogamy with a person of the opposite sex.
     
    #13 SiennaFire, Mar 30, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  14. baristajedi

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    I have very similar thoughts on this. I've always thought this, even before I acknowledged my non-straightness. Especially in bisexual marriages, polyamory seems very healthy.
     
    #14 baristajedi, Mar 30, 2016
  15. Nickw

    Nickw
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    My perfect world. I go out and climb some peak or ski some chute with my buddy. Charged up, we screw around and then go home to our wives.

    I, unilaterally, decided this is what I needed so I crafted a personal ad for this buddy. Found one and we met. The idea was that we would get STD testing, be "faithful" but discreet. This is where we both started laughing and called it off. Two cheaters swearing their allegiance to each other!

    Now I know I need my bisexuality IN my marriage not OUT of the marriage.
     
    #15 Nickw, Mar 30, 2016
  16. baristajedi

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    Is your wife completely against non-monogamy? Are you sure she may not revisit the idea? There are so many variations of non-monogamy. I'm not very knowledgeable on this at the moment, but in one of my threads, someone shared a source to read about different ways to be polyamorous. Let me see if I can find it.

    ---------- Post added 30th Mar 2016 at 04:31 AM ----------

    Found it: But regarding an open marriage...there are *many* ways to implement polyamory. I definitely recommend reading on the topic (I particularly recommend "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino, and considering carefully what relationship style would work for both of you!
    This was from BiAnnika
     
    #16 baristajedi, Mar 30, 2016
  17. SiennaFire

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    Two men getting sweaty in nature followed by some hot man on man action. Sounds like a hot time :slight_smile:

    The irony is that you would probably be more trustworthy with him than with your wife. He knows your deepest secret, so you don't need to lie to him. You would protect each other's secrets.

    Having said that, better to be upfront with your wife about what you are doing.
     
    #17 SiennaFire, Mar 30, 2016
  18. Nickw

    Nickw
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    If not for the risks of STD's, I am pretty sure my wife would have no problem with letting me fool around within some limits. She is phobic about communicable diseases. This is why it would have been so bad had I cheated. She would forgive indiscretions but not putting her at risk. No such thing as TOTALLY safe sex.

    A decade ago a friend was going through a divorce and I went on a weekend trip with him to party. When we left my wife kissed me and told me to "exercise good judgement and don't bring anything home to her". Not "don't fool around".

    On the topic. "If an option is fooling around, how do you deal with STD potential"
     
    #18 Nickw, Mar 30, 2016
  19. SiennaFire

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    The following ground rules served me well.

    Identify other nice sane married men who are also motivated not to bring anything home. Find a FWB with a trusted partner and avoid casual hookups. Be very selective if you let a guy ejaculate in your mouth. Be even more selective if you engage in rimming. Practice safer sex. Get tested for STI and HIV on a regular basis.

    While there are no guarantees of safety, these ground rules should reduce the chances of catching something.
     
    #19 SiennaFire, Mar 30, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  20. Nickw

    Nickw
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    My "buddy" and I had the "mechanics" of safe sex worked out (we were pretty serious about this). I am more interested in how the emotions a spouse may feel when the gay/bisexual partner is outside of the marriage for sex. "He's having fun and if he messes up I can get sick". It takes a lot of trust all the way around. How does one approach that. "Honey I really need this so suck it up and don't worry?"
     
    #20 Nickw, Mar 30, 2016
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