Internalised homophobia is very confusing

It takes time, and I believe eliminating it is a bi product of how your journey progresses. The more you accomplish on your journey, the more comfortable you are with yourself and the more your able to overcome internalised homophobia.

There is also a direct connection with shame as well, as the two or inter related. Solving both follows a similar path from my perspective.

Not sure either completely goes away 100% (listening to political debates on "bathroom" issues, usually get me going), but I am not sure anything gets to 100%. I am happy at 99%!

 

I view internalized homophobia and shame as being interrelated. The internalized homophobia causes the shame associated with being gay, at least for me.

What you describe is typical. You get to the first level of acceptance where you start to accept yourself but still have some internalized homophobia. Eventually you'll get to a place where most of the internalized homophobia and shame is purged and you love yourself unconditionally and proudly as a gay person. I purged my shame without trying to purge my shame. I was focusing on being gay, and through that course of action I found acceptance.

HTH

 

Bi product, teehee. I heart the unintentional pun that actually applies at several levels.

 

Hi yes I think homophobia and shame are big for me, they go hand in hand. I know my family will react really badly, especially Dad. But that isn't enough to stop me going to a lesbian coffee group so I must have shifted on the inside!

Shame is Very deep rooted, spent a lifetime having shame drummed into me so it's u likely to shift in a instant. Keep going.

 

I still have a tiny touch of shame. Which is so weird to me, as I've always been 1000% pro gay rights, even long before I figured out I was gay. The vast majority of me feels totally okay with being gay, but I still flinch a little bit when it comes up. It's hard to undo a lifetime of heteronormativity.

 

It is definitely possible to significantly reduce it but I don't think it is possible to eliminate it because it so deeply engrained. Also rational thinking and experience can help reduce extreme internal homophobia but the lines can get blurry as you progress. For example, some people struggle with public affection as a result of it but at what point do you instead accept it as a rational response to risk assessment. Is your mind telling you that kissing in front of others would be disgusting or that you might be subjected to abuse? - that sort of question is difficult to answer, especially if the truth is a bit of both.

 

I was sexually abused as a kid and for a very long time kept it a secret and internalized a whole lot of shame around it that became part of who I am. With lots of work in therapy and out of therapy, over the course of a couple of decades, I slowly found myself where I am now--a place where I no longer feel like I need to hide my history of abuse and the shame (around the abuse) doesn't come very often any more. And when it does come around, I can pretty quickly recognize it for what it is and handle it with compassion. I now also have trusted people I can go to with it to help me process it in helpful ways. I don't think though that that particular brand of shame will ever be 100% completely and totally gone--it really is part of who I am--and I think there will always be things that can unearth it now and then. And at this point in my life, I'm actually ok with that. I don't LIKE it, but I understand it and accept it as part of who I am.

Internalized homophobia and the shame that comes with it feels a lot like the early days of the abuse-related shame to me. I've only recently begun to understand that I have internalized homophobia, am in the very early (and painful) days of shining a bit of light on it, and have only made a tiny dent so far in getting to an OK place with it. I'm still largely closeted and have a long way to go. But I think, like the abuse shame, it is part of who I am, and I think there will always be potential for it to be unearthed now and then. What I'm shooting for is finding my way to a place with it where it doesn't feel like it's controlling me, and doesn't feel like it is eating my soul (don't take that too literally).

---------- Post added 1st May 2016 at 04:37 PM ----------

Uh, and maybe right now I'm realizing that some of the abuse shame probably fed and helped grow some of the internalized homophobia. Really, that feeling that my sexuality was 100% made of ICK, and was dangerous and to be avoided at all costs kind of applies to both brands of shame.

Huh. I recently connected with my old therapist that helped me through a lot of the abuse stuff. She was my therapist for about ten years, but I hadn't seen her for a little over three years. I very recently told her that I figured out that I'm gay. Her response made me sob. First, she was REALLY excited for me--excited that I had figured out this very important part of who I am. And I cried hard. Then later she told me that she knew when she was seeing me in the past, that I still had some really big walls up around my sexuality, but she didn't know what it was about. I didn't actually even realize I still had big walls up around my sexuality, but clearly I did, since I didn't even understand my own sexual orientation. I can see now though how/why the sexual abuse shame, combined with homophobia from others, could make my true sexuality seem way too scary for me to even allow myself to understand it or see it. Damn! Uh, thanks for the space and context to allow me to figure some of this stuff out!

---------- Post added 1st May 2016 at 04:39 PM ----------

Sorry for the long post that went a bit off topic!

 

I think you can definitely get there, but I don't think it's a process you can do alone. I think a lot of people try to change the way they think about these things just internally, not realizing that a lot of it is really reflected off the people around you. You can do all the internal work and if you are still constantly surrounded by people who try to make you feel ashamed, well, in the end you're going to feel some of that. If on the other hand you can surround yourself generally with people who are supportive and caring, if you can stand up for yourself until people stop challenging it--well, eventually it just kind of dwindles away. When you encounter homophobia often it's like a tiny part of you sits there and thinks maybe it really is me? But eventually, when you encounter overwhelmingly more support than shaming, one day that stops and on the rare occasion when someone says something all you think is that they're an asshole--there will come a point where it genuinely doesn't even occur to you that it is about you.

I guess the analogy I could draw is when you encounter hatred that truly isn't directed at you. For instance every once in a while I encounter someone who says something truly and heinously racist--and all I feel is disgust. It doesn't make me think anything about myself--that's a luxury I generally have as a white guy in the States. But the thing is, and it took a long time and a lot of reflected support, I feel the same way when someone says something homophobic; it doesn't even occur to me that it has anything to do with me. It just says something about them. I think one can definitely get there, but I don't think you can just think your way to it...

 

My friend used to be a bit homophobic(he is straight though) but now is not at all after he realised he was wrong at one point and fully supports everything lgbt.

This is particularly good as often homophobic people are very stuck in their ways.

Edit: this isn't really on topic but his homophobia went away entirely so

Also I'm really tired and I should go to sleep.

 

Yeah I did a little!