Gender

I've had a similar experience in my littler life actually.

When I was a little kid I wanted to be a boy, would only wear my male cousins hand me downs, would only hang out with boys, and tried to convince them that I had an invisible penis. I wanted (but never got) action men, and spent my time playing with cars and video games and writing stories about dinasours.

8-10 I moved to a smaller school finally acknowledged that girls were okay and we could be friends but they would play MY games. Reluctantly I completely hid my interest in video games and stuff because I knew they wouldn't like it.

As a 11-15ish kid I sort of accepted my girlhood finally and tried to fit in with the general idea. I had a fair few male friends though. And I didn't develop the interest fast enough in makeup and really trying to be cool like that. So I had no friends and in the end I didn't want to force myself to be more girly like the popular girls and attract attention to myself as a try-hard. Generally in this period gender meant little to me and I was completely uninterested in my body changing but I tried to grow to be a little more ladylike and I wanted to fit in a bit.

Finally at 16 I had this awakening that I didn't need to be a try hard. And then at 17 I got my sexuality sort of sorted out and at that point I realised I could really express my boyishness as much as I wanted and got back out these old ties that I used to wear as a 6 year old. I've never been so excited by my style in my life. Guess cos I'm not fighting my tomboyishness any more.... And I've always had such an unexplored fascination with menswear.

Now do I question my gender? I'm pretty happy with it... It doesn't seem of much consequence. I would love to live as a guy but I love living as a girl lol. I did used to fantasise about my life as a man in the 11-15 period. Another thing that bothers me is my body doesn't fit my style. There's something about having double D's that makes me vainly proud but also really annoyed because I never really like seeing the shape of them through my clothes. When anyone calls me a young lady I cringe haha but then again I've been called a handsome gentleman and I still cringed. So yeah there's definitely some things that make me think but mostly it seems inconsequential. Plus i do like a few girly things.

 

Interesting topic - have been looking into this for few months..

Unlike many gender questioning posters on EC I never wanted to be a boy, and prior to teens did not want to play with boys or boy games. Then whole growing up stage with interest in boys and acting as feminine as I could to attract opposite sex. All felt comfortable.

Fast forward to now, I am very much preoccupied with my identity and how others perceive me. All triggered by strong feelings and admiration for masculine girl.
As I pick out clothes I want to look beautifully strong - want masculine style but can't quite go there as I am afraid to push my limits and deal with questioning by others.

When I think of being affectionate with her (only in my imagination), I feel like I could switch to take on male like role and actually enjoy it.

Lately interactions with other females have been very difficult as I don't feel I can relate to them, how they are acting, their conversations.
I hide it, even when annoyed, and hope I am perceived as a 'normal' female.
When she is in the room, I feel comfortable to act more masculine and don't care what anyone thinks.

Don't know if this is just a phase, since none of this occurred for me earlier in life. And, I don't imagine myself ever identifying anyone other than female.

 

I plan to post on this thread at some point. Not sure yet what I want to say.

 

This topic has triggered so many mixed emotions in me First of all, I am very comfortable with being a female in the sense that I love it physically and my sense of fashion almost completely aligns with the conventional feminine style (girly hair, cute form fitting clothing, make up). I love stuffed animals and all those shiny little trinkets. I am also nice and quiet and soft-spoken (lol I am just an angel).

But I feel that in all the other aspects of my life I have been trying my best to prove that I can do everything a guy can do and better. I know this sounds ridiculous to many young people now but when I was growing up, my family constantly told me what I could not do b/c of my gender. Girls can't do maths, girls can't handle sophisticated jobs, girls can't go out by themselves, girls are emotionally fragile and love attention. It was the most toxic and infuriating thing ever. The saddest part is my family love me and they think I have to master the skills of how to be a girl in order to land a husband. So what did I do? I picked a major with a very small percentage of girls (I do like it though). I went for further education after my bachelor's degree (to my family's horror). I do as many things by myself as possible and almost never ask for help. Personally it feels like revenge and boy isn't revenge always sweet!

So I guess as a gender identity I am absolutely fine with being a female but I hate all the baggage that come with it. Of course that would not be the case if there was no sexism. But we do not live in a fantasy world.

 

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Tiring to figure out what my style is as well as what it is I exactly feel. I got dressed the other day and put on dark jeans and a dark green button up, my new toms then looked at my self and didn't feel quite balanced without some big a$$ earrings. I don't necessarily want to dress completely masculine, or feminine. Sometimes I'm saddened by the fact that clothing has a gender attached to it at all. Lots of times I've thought that I probably should have been born as a boy, and even have dreams about being the opposite sex. But at the same time I've also thought I'm happy to have been born a girl and I'm satisfied with my body. Maybe I'm neutral? Fluid? I don't know. Somethings I've never thought twice about, like when my sister in law wore a tux to the wedding and stood on the grooms side, I didn't ever think about that might seem odd to some people. I guess I wonder why gender is so important, I think I would be happy either way. I've watched my neice who's Trans stuggle and suffer. I understand that being seen as who she is is extremely important, but at the same time I have a hard time imagining how she must feel.

 

I've kind of answered this before in other topics but yeah it's interesting. When I was little I always played with boys almost exclusively. We shared same interests and I related better with them.

I think from around age 3-8 I might have had mild gender dysphoria, not sure if it counts. I never wanted to not be a girl, I identified as a girl. In play, whether it was toys, imaginative, or video games I wanted to be the boy character. In my mind girls wore dresses and liked pink cute things. They had long eyelashes, wore bows in their hair, were dainty, and gentle. They never played the lead, kept a passive nature, and were sometimes just background noise. I realize now this concept I had was from gender stereotypes that I saw in society. I know it's not true but then it was and I didn't like it nor could I understand it.

Past 8+ I met more girls like me and was exposed to better female role models in media. So I got over this issue. At this point I still didn't get that my behavior was abnormal for my gender (by others viewpoint).

I remember I was an early bloomer. Puberty hit me like a battering ram, and it seemed overnight I had boobs. Let me say, even now, I am not a boob kinda girl. I think most folks regardless of orientation like them in some way. Me not so much, for the majority of my post puberty/teenage years I had a negative opinion of my chest. I didn't like how heavy they felt, or how bras were a must because running or going up stairs was painful. I didn't like how obvious they were unless I was wearing baggy clothing, and worst of all boob sweat in the summer. I used to be terrified when I was younger that I might be one of those girls who had naturally big chests, so I'd will them to stop growing before I went to sleep at night.

Fast forward to now, I've finally found peace with my upper body assets. I actually think they're ok, not perfect but I can deal. They turned out not to be that big so I'm not restricted in movement (I still have to wear bras for comfort) I still hate boob sweat though...

In my late teens I did wonder what it would be like if I was a guy. Even looked up trans surgery and hormone related things. Decided that if I was a dude I wouldn't be much different and I was perfectly happy staying female.

As for my masculine nature and style, that's never something I've been ashamed of or changed. I'm a girl that wears both female and male specific underwear and I don't care what anyone thinks about it.

 

So, maybe Ican just write a little bit...

I can't remember a time when I didn't feel like a girl. I have had years where I felt like a not good enough girl or the wrong kind of girl. I had years of looking for affirmation that it's ok to be a different kind of girl/woman than traditional gender roles offer.

From a young age I played around with gender presentation. I think I knew two or three ways to tie a tie before Ifinished elementary school, and I wore my dad's blazers as much as I could get away with. Most of my wardrobe for school that I picked out for 6th grade was size XL or bigger from the men's section.

Weird embarrassing story about gender presentation experimentation as a kid. Any time I was left at home by myself, I was trying on my dad's briefs and stuffing them just like some people try on their mom's bra's and stuff them. But, sometimes I did weird shit, like wear dad's briefs and three of my mom's bras and simultaniously imagine that I had six tits and a dick,. Lol, yeah. Kind of a weird 9 or 10yo. It wasn't really like I did that kind of stuff because it was sexually exciting in some way. More like I was really, really interested in the "what if", especially any "what if" related to gender, gender roles, gender presentation. I don't have all of the sex toys that I want, but I am still really drawn to toys that would let me play around with the "what if"s about body parts, etc. Like, I'd try most things in that department. if I could have some kind of tie died glow in the dark purple D with jingle bells for balls, I'd probably be like, sure, I'll try that out. Or, like, what if someone invented a strap on harness that's kind of like a tutu for your entire collection, and they want me to try it out? YOLO! Haha.

As a little kid, like maybe 6 or 7 years old, I would stay up for HOURS on multiple occasions imagining stories about there being a third gender. I was always the third gender. Actually, Ithink I told myself these stories occasionally through Middle School, life if Ihad trouble sleeping, but I never actually was able to sleep, because the stories were interesting enough that they woke me up more. When I was really little, the gender stories Imade up were usually about mermaids. Like, I think I watched The Little Mermaid a lot and was at a deep level bothered by 1) the unrealistically hyper-masculine and hyper-feminine body types that seemed completely unattainable and 2) no body had any junk that we could really notice, cuz, fish tales. Ispent a lot of time imagining how a third gender could be involved in reproduction and in family relationships. I really wanted to imagine about something that could be a place for me that was different than these strict boxes that my local culture presented to me.

In elementary and middle school, I was really drawn to and interested in women who were living differently. Like, Sally Ride (who I just learned was gay!!!!) was my hero when I was in 6th grade, because she was a lady %&$*(#)@ astronaut!!! I still sometimes consider googling "lady astronauts" when I need some fantasy foder. I was interested in women who broke into tranditionally masculine professions, or who remained single, or who supported themselves, or who had a wife, or who had intentionally had a family without a man, like single ladies who adopted. I remember sneaking to watch Ellen's sitcom after the character came out. Iremember trying to be real casual about wantin to watch Rosie ODonnell in the afternoons and being SUPER interested if she talked about her wife or their kid(s). I just wanted to know about all of the alternative ways to do gender and family roles and gender roles and all that. I don't think I ever wanted to be a man exactly (except maybe if I'm super, super angry at someone and magining that I am going to hurt them), but I kind of wanted there to be other choices besides male and female. Even now, I kind of wish there were some other axis to use when talking about gender besides just masculine v feminine. Something else.

The disphoria I have experienced about my body is usually more about shape and size than parts. Like, about 98% of the time, I am happy that I have boobs and a vajayjay. I do wish that my body were thinner so that I could more easily switch the way I present. Like, all the androgynous people you ever see are skinny girls. Skinny white girls, though I do have the white thing going there. But, yeah, I want there to be good feeling ways to present in androgynous manner despite my not at all subtle curviness. Sometimes I just want to squeeze myself into some other shape. *sigh* I like hving the parts that I have, but I kind of wish that my body type lent itself a little more easily to code switching.

Over the last week or so I have been reconsidering the links between my college eating disorder and the timing of really clear indicators (which Iwas in firm denial about) that I was in love with my roommate as well as the timing of learning my ex boyfriend (whom I had dated twice and really cared for) was gay. Like, I had enough information to conciously realize that my femininity felt threated, and aI had enough information to unconciously realize that I was not straight. So, my way of expressing that at the time was to have lots of disordered eating and some self injury. (I guess also I just felt like Ididn't know who I was.) Like, sexuality and gender identity concerns did morph into feeling super, super, super uncomfortable with my body and wanting to hurt myself. But, still,, at least 90% of the time Iwanted to have a woman's body. Anyway, interesting to me that when I was not ready to conciously deal with my issues around femininity, gender, sexuality, it did morph into problems with my physical body.

Uy. SOrry for being so rambly. I should sleep. Gnight, friends!

 

My gender questioning has been later in life, because I do not believe that I was impressed with any sense of gender growing up. My father wanted a boy, my mother tells me, and he just raised me as one, which I suppose for a geeky computer programmer type, meant teaching me math and logic and, of course, programming. It was not until I was out in the world of people as an older child that I began to see how boys treated me, how cognizant they were of my girl-ness and how little I understood that.

For a long time, I guess I considered it a boon - hey, boys like me so much because I don't "think like a girl" as much as a lot of girls did. But over time I have come to feel it as a serious burden. My longest term friendships are with people for whom my femaleness is irrelevant, in the sense that they would be good friends with me if I were male, too. That includes men I have had sex with, and been married to, and women who are rather non-girly themselves, mostly math geeks.

I think gender is one of the things I could ponder, along with my sexual orientation (considering that I may be asexual of some stripe), to help me get some perspective on my very strange romantic experiences. It may be that I feel "agender" because I still don't put that much importance on genitalia. Men are easier to keep around than women, if I give them sex; that's where my mind lives on the topic. I feel sometimes that I wish we had no genders and no "unspoken expectations" between people based on their gender.

This is definitely a good topic and one I can speak to, but for myself I am not sure I ever want to see myself as a girl or a boy. I appear to resent the entire concept. But perhaps I just resent my femaleness, which seems to have been a lifelong mixed blessing of more attention and privilege (in the interpersonal realm) and loads of unjust prejudice, stereotypes, objectification, shame, duty, and expectation.

I hope that doesn't sound really negative. I'm in a pretty jaded and bitter place right now. Woohoo! (Don't ask here, PM me if you are curious.)

(*hug*)(&&&)

 

Good topic Baristajedi. It's easier for me to talk about the clothes that I like than to really put a lot of consideration to how I feel about gender. I'm glad you made this post, it's given me a lot to think about and has gotten some of my thoughts out of my head and on to paper where I can really look at them. Thanks.

 

Good topic Barista but mine would fill a book. I don't want to cause a disruption but someone said they had mild gender dysphoria and got rid of it like getting the flu, it doesn't go away...its not like you have it and then it's gone, I guess I would like to hear an explanation on that because like sexuality, gender dysphoria is with you, it's a part of you and anyone who says otherwise well we have a problem

 

Wow - what a question.

The earliest I can remember being confused about what was in my head and what was on my body was about 4. Growing up, I always gravitated towards girls as friends and felt a much tighter bond with them than I ever did with guys. I was raised in the Church of Christ (like Southern Baptists on crack ) and I knew from a very early age that gender norms were not to be questioned (for example, women aren't allowed to have a speaking role in the church in front of men. They can't teach Sunday School to boys once they've reached "the age of accountability" based off of Timothy 2:12 which says "And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."... Which is complete bullshit, IMHO)

I felt the need to prove my masculinity, both to myself and others, because I was sure "they knew." I mean, how could they not? So, subscribing to gender roles became a requirement. Puberty sucked. I lashed out, rebelled (but only in gender-normed ways), and was generally a shit. I joined the Marine Corps at 18 and my enlistment contract was "Guaranteed Infantry/Guaranteed Overseas." I was a recruiter's wet dream.

So, being stationed in Okinawa, Japan (perhaps TMI), my first real consensual sex was when I was 19 with a guy. At the time, I was sure that I was gay even though I found girls attractive. I felt I finally had a reason behind all of these gender conflicts. Of course! I was gay! Makes perfect sense (remember, this is 1995), right? The Internet had barely been invented. I came out to my family in 1997.

I dated guys exclusively until 1999 and thought I had a solid handle on my sexuality & gender. Going back to college changed that a bit and I came out (again) as bi. Still, using that as an excuse for my underlying gender confusion, it all made sense to me. Since I still liked guys, I must be at least part-girl. Imagining that I had girl-parts (especially when being intimate) must be what every gay/bi guy does... Hmmm, turns out not so much. :icon_redf Embarrasing admission: I even have a lower-back tattoo (a.k.a. tramp stamp). :icon_redf Maybe getting that should have been a clue, huh?

I got married to a woman in 2001, kids in 2003/2005 and retired from the Marine Corps in 2014. As part of the gift that the Marine Corps gave me, I have combat PTSD from my time in Fallujah in 2004-2005 (Operation PHANTOM FURY), compounded by sexual abuse when I was 10 & 13. However, the therapy I've received for it has actually helped me break down the walls that I've built since I was 4.

Today, I'm sitting here wearing yoga pants & a cute top, in my own apartment (the wifi SSID is Em's Place), alone on my 40th birthday and I can honestly say I'm happier than I've been in decades.

(&&&) to you all!

 

I don't have any insights on the topic, so please excuse my off-track, but I wanted to say Happy Birthday Emma! As I have come out as bi recently, I've taken strength from your posts from here and there, among others on EC. I admire your strength in finding the real you.

 

Let's see. I recognize at age 8 or 9 because of a dark haired girl in class, that I wanted to be a girl because I thought she was pretty, and I wanted to be just like her. I was surrounded by young ladies, 3 sisters ( I am second in birth order) had 12 female cousins all with 15 minutes of the house. We were a very tight nit family...aunts, uncles, cousins..so I was inundated with femininity. I even recall my Grandfather crossdressed for Halloween MANY times. So while identifying with being a woman, I crossdressed quite often. Was caught numerous times by sisters, a cousin, and my Mother. Never once disciplined except when I ruined some stocking my mother had. I came from a very religious background but I was taught by my Mom and Dad Christ came to us with love, we were all made differently and no one should be made fun of or bullied because of our differences. I never once questioned my sexuality early on because I felt I was attracted to women, but as I found out later in life, my attraction was based off wanting to be them...I was very specific in the type of girl I was attracted to petite, brunette, brown eyes, large breasted young ladies...I was a petite, brunette, brown eyed, didn't have the breast LOL
When I was 17 I had my younger sister help me and I went to Halloween party dressed as a brunette Madonna and when I saw myself I was like WOW I look like a girl and they made me hot...my attempts were ok but they taught me a lot. I dated girls, most people would say out of my league...I have no idea very attractive young ladies dated me or had sex with me...personality? I did my last 3 yrs in HS work out, lift weights, and I was a HS wrestler , BUT I was still 5 ft tall and a 103 pounds. My therapist thinks that it was my personality and the fact I actually listened to them because in the back of my mind I was making notes on how to become a woman. Sex? I had all kinds with young ladies in HS and in college...maybe I was trying to suppress "Danielle" making me think I was all man
I do want to point out in the 80's that Caroline Cossey came along, The Bond girl who was born a man, and she was beautiful and perfect. She was the first time I really grabbed a hold of transsexualism...I thought is this me? I studied about it in the IU library...and when I got to college. In college I kept myself smooth and dressed as a woman at the drop of the hat, even a few GF's helped me. It was around 21 I decided I was going to move forward and become a woman and then BAM met my wife about three weeks after I had planned to pursue being a woman, she stole my heart. I quit dressing altogether about 6 months of us starting to dress, never told her I did wish I had
Trying to shorten this up, after being married 2 yrs I started again, feeling more intense about being a woman...but I locked it away until a year ago when I really started to feel trapped, anxiety attacks..I also started to somewhat addressed that even though I liked a particular type a woman, for a long time I was more interested in men as Danielle than any woman except my wife...probably more than you wanted Barista but felt like spilling my guts tonight...another great thread started. (*hug*)

 

One of my earliest memories was wanting to style my hair a certain way as a toddler, and my mother forcing me to change it, saying, "That's how girls do it, not boys," while I felt those rules didn't or shouldn't apply to me. It felt like a rejection, honestly, similar to how later in life I'd get told, "You're a boy/guy, you wouldn't understand."

Seeing women's bodies probably made me envious long before any sort of attraction developed. I'd walk through lingerie and swimsuit aisles at the store, and think I'd love to be able to wear some of these things, but having a flat chest and dangling bits down there made it impossible. I remember hating my voice after it dropped, and facial hair was something I did my best to ignore.

It was the same thing in watching scenes involving men and women or women and women. At first, I thought I was merely submissive, but it was obviously something more, since they involved things I didn't have... this became obvious the more time I spent around queer men.

I'm at my happiest when someone doesn't know my gender, or it's irrelevant to them. That might be one reason I've always been happiest around gender non-conforming folk, some of which had been asexual, leaving no tensions or expectations. "Mental orgasm" comes to mind. They're also the ones I'm mostly attracted to.

Many years were spent trying to fit in, sadly involving homophobic thoughts and actions. What I used to see as a hindrance, I now see as a blessing. Plenty of trans women, cross dressers, and queens have difficulties due to their size, secondary sex characteristics, and whatnot. Maybe that's why my brothers were more comfortable "beefing up" and cutting their hair, while I loved my sleek build and flowing locks...

Interests? I've always been a bit of a geek, with legos, video games, and action figures, but I don't put much stock into those. Some women are more masculine than some men. Some men are more feminine than some women. I'd put myself somewhere in the middle, but that's more of a coincidence than anything else! I'm adaptable.

Strangely, I was called all sorts of names growing up, with many involving comparisons to women. No idea if that's standard bullying, or if others saw something there before I cared to admit it to myself. It never felt like an insult, but at some level, I might have celebrated, and knew better than to show any sort of "recognition".

One of my earliest mentors was a satanist trans woman on a metal chat room. Funny, I've always seen them as a sort of "evolved form"!

 

Thanks very much for starting this thread Baristajedi. I have been following your story, and others, for the last year, but I felt that I related to this thread so much that it prompted me to actually become a member. Having my feelings validated, by realising that the ways I felt and behaved as a child were entirely understandable reactions to my family and to growing up in the 1960s, and that others have experienced the same or very similar attitudes and reactions, has been a very moving experience for me.