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The crushing weight of shame, an observation

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by brainwashed, May 28, 2016.

  1. brainwashed

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    Disclaimer: The following is my summary to date based on accumulated facts.

    There are five and only five basic psychological traits we humans have - anger, joy, fear, sadness, shame.

    We humans are actually quite incredible. We've evolved to withstand an onslaught of adverse conditions - death, broken bones, flesh wounds, people yelling at us, rejection, to name just a few. We humans first acquired these traits to survive and flourish in the wilds of Africa.

    But when shame is applied over and over and over again, over time, by people who love us, we think love us, by everyone, thats when we break down. Thats one of our weaknesses.

    You can see this weakness played out as, hurt, sadness, here on ECs (Empty Closets).
     
    #1 brainwashed, May 28, 2016
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
  2. SiennaFire

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    Yes, there's too much hurt and sadness on EC because people have been subjected to the crushing weight of shame because of our sexuality.

    What human strength can be applied to overcome this weakness?
     
    #2 SiennaFire, May 28, 2016
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  3. Chip

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    In principle I agree, though the "traits" you're speaking of are emotions or affects (same thing, different words.)

    Shame affects us so strongly because it is basically a deeply rooted belief that we aren't worthy of love and belonging. So when we are immersed in shame, and people who perpetuate our shame, it disconnects us from others around us, and makes us feel very alone and unwanted and unloved.

    Shame is far worse than grief or even emotional hurt because it goes to the core of our being, and makes us feel that we are simply an unworthy or bad person.

    If you're interested in this topic, I strongly recommend Dr. Brené Brown's three TED talks (in order you should watch them:slight_smile: The Power of Vulnerabilty ; The Price of Invulnerability ; Listening to Shame. The research for the most part isn't hers, but what she has done is pull it all together in a simple and powerful way that makes sense.
     
  4. baristajedi

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    Vulnerability.

    Being willing to be vulnerable and to take the risk of rejection and hurt, can help us overcome shame. You helped me see that, Siennafire!

    I also think some uniquely human traits like imagination and creativity can help us think of ways to move forward that might not be evident simply within the confines of our social norms.

    But also community, building community can help us find empathy.

    ---------- Post added 28th May 2016 at 09:39 AM ----------

    Ah cool, Chip was posting while I was. I was going to recommend Brene Brown's Ted talks too.
     
  5. SiennaFire

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    :thumbsup: baristajedi gets the prize (!) Wait, wrong prize. How about :starwars:

    Yes, the antidote for shame is to develop pride and positive attitudes and feelings about being gay through the love and acceptance of ourselves, which requires vulnerability and openness by sharing our secrets when we come out as gay and proud :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:

    More here Healing the shame of being gay
     
    #5 SiennaFire, May 28, 2016
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  6. Chip

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    To clarify, the antidote to shame isn't pride; it is vulnerability, connection, self-compassion, and empathy. Pride is dangerous because what often comes with it is arrogance and a loss of vulnerability.

    It's important we love and accept ourselves for sure. And part of that is being authentic, which means being vulnerable, and sharing our stories with those who have earned the right to hear them. I just get nervous when we talk about pride and self-esteem because those can also get us into trouble, where self-compassion, vulnerability, and authenticity, properly practiced, help us to become stronger, more courageous, and more present and available.
     
  7. SiennaFire

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    Hey Chip,

    Implicit in your commentary is the notion that there's a light and dark side to pride. I'm very much a light sider in terms of pride insofar as it's a natural extension and generalization of self acceptance and love, consistent with all the goodness that you underscore.

    I hear and appreciate your clarification that pride can turn into hubris. That's not where I'm coming from. Thank you for raising this important clarification.
     
    #7 SiennaFire, May 28, 2016
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  8. faustian1

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    I'm very familiar with the extensive framework of shame theories that psychologists and social workers use. However, I think sometimes a distinction must be drawn, between what appears to be shame and the impulse for self preservation.

    For example, decades ago when I was in middle school, I can tell you that I never felt ashamed of having same sex attractions. I would readily talk with others when it was safe to do so, about such things. In fact, to this day I readily talk with people in 3D who I know are safe.

    On the other hand, the level of torment and torture that I endured in my early teens was probably about the same as a lot of others endured. It was constant, isolating, and extremely threatening. There was no support structure available (which in many places is the same today). Those tormentors knew what I secretly admitted to myself--that I was attracted to other males. I was still figuring this out, but apparently the bullies were way ahead of me.

    There are a number of people, who feel it is kids' political duty to assert their sexuality, "for the cause" I suppose. The sexual wiring of people was not designed in a political science lab. It is a personal matter and, when there is an extreme shortage of tolerance, can be life-threatening.

    In real life, I work with a lot of lawyers, and am a follower of the trends in criminal justice today. I can tell you that some of the "experimentation" that went on when I was a child, would result today in a lengthy "gig" on the sex offender registry. In my state, it's possible to go through the registry and find literally hundreds of people who today are in their 20's, who at the time of their convictions in juvenile court were 11 years old. Let me tell you, as an 11 year old you could rob a bank and be free as a bird at 18. Not for "sex crimes," which today include teenage whims such as sending nude selfies to other people your age.

    So, even today with all this "openness" and acceptance I can tell you that those of us who were terrorized as middle schoolers are quite reticent about letting it all hang out, unless we're around people in the same demographic, where we're really quite open.

    Two years ago, I helped an adult friend of mine, who is in a gay relationship of long standing, who was convicted of a sex crime on almost no evidence whatsoever. He made the mistake of electing a jury trial, and the jurors took innuendo and fear, and turned it into a conviction, which later was set aside (at enormous cost). This occurred in a place that most would call one of the most "liberal" cities in America.

    There a lot of things in life that I am, or have been, ashamed of. Being attracted to my own sex is not one of those things. As a naive little kid, I always remember wondering why it seemed to be such a big deal to people. As an adult, who maybe understands some of our more serious failings a bit better, I now understand that hate and bigotry are a symptom of serious character defects and are quite common.

    I'm very pleased that things appear to have changed somewhat in this country. But if you put me in a cryogenic chamber, and brought me back in 60 years, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the City of Boise was rounding up gays and sending them to prison, as they did not that long ago as chronicled in the book, The Boys of Boise.
     
    #8 faustian1, May 28, 2016
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  9. OnTheHighway

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    Last night, as I am on a brief weekend get away, some friends I was with took me to a gay club after dinner. Usually, when I have gone, I would stand there against the wall watching everyone dance and have a great time. Last night was the first time, in as long as I can even remember, where I danced my a-- off. I even went as far as to take my shirt off which I have NEVER had the confidence to do before.

    1. I definitely felt vulnerable in the microcosm of The indulgent environment,
    2. There absolutely was an overwhelming sense of community,
    3. I allowed my self to let go and have fun, completely uninhibited,
    4. But empathy was put on hold for the evening.

    I think I conquered my issues of shame :slight_smile:
     
    #9 OnTheHighway, May 29, 2016
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  10. baristajedi

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    Yass! I won the best prize :icon_bigg

    This insight has really been one of the most valuable things I'm starting to learn. It's helping me embrace me.

    Being vulnerable has probably been the most helpful thing on my journey thus far, and it will continue to be, as I keep going forward. I think even when we're in a good place, way on the other side, we always have to keep being willing to be vulnerable, because there is always more growth to be had.

    ---------- Post added 29th May 2016 at 01:52 AM ----------

    This is amazing!!! Sounds like a great night, and really does sound like you've really let go of your shame! (!)
     
  11. OnTheHighway

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    And just to be clear, I do not drink, so not artificial lubrication :slight_smile:
     
  12. Tomás1

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    This sentence struck me as false, because no one can make u feel shameful - it's an internalized emotion - like a cancer - where u don't like yourself, or aspects of yourself.

    This is a complex topic - the origin of shame, how it affects people, what makes it stick. In this context, shame results from someone taking on (internalizing) judgments or homophobia of another. No one can MAKE u feel shame. It is more likely you'll feel shame if u have low self esteem.

    Myself, being bi, having more straight persona than gay - it's possibly easy for me to say the foregoing, cuz I was never taunted for being gay or queer as a kid, so I never felt shame. Regardless, w any shadowy emotion such as shame, low self esteem, etc … it's important to take ownership of the emotion, & not blame it on others … if u seek release or healing from it.
     
  13. brainwashed

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    Wow. Talk about a home run. Chip, amazing words.

    I deeply feel, so lets call it "my subconscious", I am a bad person. Can I go out on a limb and say/ask, can a person be made to feel bad without their knowledge? I'm going to answer yes based on my own experiences when growing up. Then at 14ish the water spigot (actually shame spigot) was turned on full. I was told I was a bad person.

    Will watch. Thanks

    ---------- Post added 30th May 2016 at 09:58 PM ----------

    Intoxicating words. Another home run.
     
  14. brainwashed

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    Wow, thanks faustain1. So much material. Must devour.

    ---------- Post added 30th May 2016 at 10:33 PM ----------

    Interesting. I've got to check these out.

    ---------- Post added 30th May 2016 at 10:35 PM ----------

    Being vulnerable. This is going to courage.

    ---------- Post added 30th May 2016 at 10:43 PM ----------

    I disagree. People can shame you. My theory, this is one form of shame. Example: Someone tells you, you are a bad person.

    Then maybe just maybe, (more research needed) shame begins to feed upon itself.
     
    #14 brainwashed, May 30, 2016
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  15. faustian1

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    Oh yes, do read the book. It can give context, in these times, and it produces understanding, of why some folks are so militant. It's hard to imagine that in our lifetimes (some of us), such atrocities were considered "constitutional."
     
  16. whizbang

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    The shame I used to feel has eroded into a vague memory. I wore a pride bracelet pretty much all weekend into the depths of north east Texas. It's rapidly getting to the point of me not caring what anyone else thinks about me .
     
  17. faustian1

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    You've just named one of the prime benefits of growing older. :icon_wink