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Fwb

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Tomás1, May 29, 2016.

  1. Tomás1

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    In line w my own thinking, & moved by OTH's suggestion to look for a fwb, I put on ad on an Internet bulletin board for a fwb & tantra. I got 10-15 responses, incl one from a guy experienced in gay tantra, which got me v excited. We furiously texted back & forth one evening, & met the next day. I was 75% turned on to him, until he told me he was weekend lovers w a guy I knew from 5 yrs ago, & was poly. I immediately lost interest in him, & told him that I was not into poly relationships. I think they lack the potential for deep intimacy.

    I also got the garden variety of responses, guys emailing me pix of their buts, a guy who I gave my phone no to, & then he kept calling me w his no blocked, even after I told him I didn't accept calls from blocked nos.

    Being bi, it's been difficult to find another guy to have an intimate part time relationship with. Most of the guys who respond online either want a hookup, or they're in a sexless rel w a partner. There's not much intimacy w those guys - besides sex - as they withhold themselves emotionally, to protect their rel w their partner.

    I was at a small straight wedding yesterday, of an old friend who married a beautiful radiant woman. Since I've had such hits (intense hookups) w men, my sexual energy seems to get captured by my gay side, but it's been unfulfilling, as it never goes deeper. Since women almost always want something more than just sex, I sense there's more potential there. I intuitively sense I have to stop having gay hookups - otherwise I'll never find something deeper w a woman. One of my best buddies says to me at the wedding: "Wouldn't u like to have this some day?" … meaning a beautiful wedding wedding … & I felt an internal "yes".

    It's intelligent to understand the consequences of our behavior … & if we don't like the consequences, change our behavior.
     
  2. SiennaFire

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    I'm a little unclear as to what you want. You placed an ad for a FWB situation, yet you dinged a guy because he had a weekend lover and was poly? I think you made a mistake by dismissing him because of a label and not being open to explore the possibilities with him.

    You mentioned you want a part time relationship. Why only part time? If you can't commit to a full time relationship, it's not fair for you to complain about the emotionally availability of your potential partners because as far as I can tell you're not willing to ante up what you're looking for. If you are, then you are potentially poly yourself, which makes your response to the potential tantric FWB curious.

    Maybe I've missed something ...

    Where are you on the Kinsey scale?
     
    #2 SiennaFire, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  3. Nickw

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    I am on the "other side"... Married and bi. Long marriages, I think, are difficult for bisexuals. For 10 years, I never even thought about sex with another guy. My wife and I were intimate and very sexually active. Then things changed. Sex was less and I needed it. So, while desiring intimacy with my wife I wanted the FWB on the side with a guy. I kept from doing this because I couldn't destroy what I had. But, it was an emotional stress that finally about cracked me up.

    Now, I recognize how much work it is to keep my marriage intimate. But, my wife and I are working through how to deal with my higher sex drive.

    Her concern is a FWB relationship becoming more and impacting our non-sexual intimacy. My wife and I were FWB in grad school. No time to work on a relationship...so our first date ended in a "booty call" arrangement. After a year or so, we realized it was more. She is worried the same thing will happen to me if I find a FWB.

    My point is that, as a bisexual, your fantasy relationship and the intimacy you desire will take a lot of work to maintain. It is worth it but you will need to find the right person. I am now understanding how lucky I was with my wife.
     
  4. WanderingMind

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    I'm a bit confused. Fwb arrangements normally don't include high levels of commitment or emotional intimacy. Your post seems to indicate you're seeking more of a romantic relationship. No?
     
  5. Tomás1

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    TY SiennaFire, Nickw, & Wandering Mind... responding to you:

    I'm a 3 on Kinsey scale.

    As to fwb or intimacy w/o romance, hookups & poly: I want the intimacy, my intuition is it's more likely w a woman than a man, because of the yin/yang energy between a woman and a man, while a relationship of 2 men is yang/yang, with less friction, less having to meet midway. I've always noticed that almost all gay partners of any length are not sexual - they're just friends. The rel are usually open, giving each partner the ok to have sex outside of the rel. I'm not interested in this. I think it occurs because there's less to do sexually with a partner of the same gender, than the other gender.

    Hookup type rel that are sexual have very little shelf life. Sex, in it's most authentic form, involves caring, love, knowing your partner, intimacy, etc. Rel that are sexual only seldom last long - for more than a few visits - because they lack the accompanying emotional bonding.

    As to "what do I want", it's a deep relationship. Being bi, a double scorpio, a top, who loves passionate sex, hookups w men have always been hot & fiery... and then boom... the guy doesn't want to see me again, because he's only into hookups, or he has a partner. Or even if he does want to see me again, it's just for quick sex, he's not interested in spending the night together, going out to dinner, etc.

    So in my gut, I'm thinking that since I want the intimacy, I need to look for a woman, and forgo sex w men. Otherwise, I'll never find a woman, as I'm always quickly & easily getting my needs met w men. It's like I have to train myself to not eat the dessert first, and wait patiently for the meal, of the relationship, and then have the dessert of sex.
     
  6. OnTheHighway

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    Casual sex, to me, means hookups and lacks deep emotion (I am being specific to say deep emotion because I believe all sex entails some degree of emotion.

    Intimate sex, with deep emotion is definitely more satisfying than casual sex. All aspects are significantly better with real intimacy.

    I have had intimate sex with women, I have intimate sex today with my gay partner which is what I identify as today.

    I believe you might be generalising your experiences and perceptions regarding man on man sex and, as a result, might be creating your own barriers to having satisfactory sexual relations.

    I can not advise on what the solution is for you, obviously you need to figure out what works for you,

    I would just suggest you try and keep a more open mind, as you might be missing the needle in the haystack which provides you with the man on man intimacy you should otherwise be able to experience.
     
  7. YeahpIdk

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    I agree with many here who are questioning what it is you're really after in regards to a sexual relationship with men. You're contradicting yourself when you say that you want a friend with benefits situation, and even put that up on a board, met someone you connected with, and because they had a lover on the weekends, turned them down because you didn't want to share them. That is not a fwb relationship, that is wanting a full on relationship. And you are right, the intimacy you seem to be seeking is one that is usually between two people in a relationship - so perhaps you're not really looking for a fwb?

    I have to disagree with Nickw when he says that being bisexual makes it harder to be in a long term relationship. I identify as bisexual, and am someone who is always extremely committed in relationships when they're in one. If they happen not to work out, I truly cannot imagine it being because I feel a lack of sexual satisfaction solely because I'm bisexual. This is a stereotype that hurts the bisexual community, and is why many people stigmatize bisexuals as being insatiable sex monsters. Having a problem staying faithful, or continuing to keep things lively in your committed relationship is an internal problem - and if it's something that one partner feels they need to seek out elsewhere, that is their make up. It's human to crave something that someone can't give you. One person can't give you everything you need. But it's your and their choice to figure out arrangements to satisfy each other. That's not BeingDude's issue, though. Finding a satisfying relationship is, and you can get that, but might need to tweak the way you're going about it.

    I also think your ideas about intimacy and sex are a little too intertwined. They're not totally related. They can be joined, and it's great when they are, but they don't exist because of each other. So when you say that there's some kind of block in a same sex relationship because there's an imbalance (yang/yang) from too much sameness, and not enough sexual options to be satisfied, I have to completely disagree. Relationships are not only about sex, and no matter what gender you seek or wind up being with, you should always be looking for the yin to your yang. Relationships are about intimacy, emotionally -- then comes sex and sexual intimacy. Or sometimes you can have that all upfront if the stars are aligned correctly, big maybe. I don't want to offer any remedy, as I don't know your life, but it sounds like you may want to work on figuring out exactly what you're looking for right now. Do you just want sex, or you want a relationship? Then go from there! Just my two, unnecessary cents.
     
    #7 YeahpIdk, May 29, 2016
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  8. SiennaFire

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    Thanks for the clarifications. It seems to me that you want someone to date, either a GF or BF. Given this is what you want, I can certainly understand why a FWB situation or gay hookup would leave you unfulfilled.

    I've been intimate with both men and women, and I strongly disagree with this point. I have many more sexual options as a versatile gay man than I did when I identified as heterosexual.

    I agree with OTH's analysis that you would benefit from trying to keep a more open mind about sex with men because there are men out there who want to have a meaningful relationship.

    I hope you find what you're looking for.
     
    #8 SiennaFire, May 29, 2016
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  9. WanderingMind

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    I'm thinking maybe the trouble you faced with finding like-minded partners through your post was use of a term you may have misunderstood. "Friends with benefits" is not the same thing as looking for friendship first, with an openness to possible romance if it works for both partners. It's really more a term related to an ongoing, no-strings-attached hookup. Don't give up on finding what you're looking for. Just be sure you're asking for what you want!
     
  10. faustian1

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    Well, it may be intelligent, but God I could have written your whole post, both 40 years ago and right now. All that time ago, I found the same despair that you have, and concluded the same thing. It was mostly true, too. Women make themselves much more emotionally available than either gay or straight men usually do (to other men).

    I have had a very satisfying emotional relationship with a woman. However, for all this time I have craved emotional closeness with men, too. Virtually impossible to achieve.

    And the hookups? Very similar results to your results. Others have pointed out that you used the term, "friends with benefits" which is supposedly different than "friends." The problem really is in what the definition of a "friend" is to most men.

    Mark Zuckerberg has fucked up the word friend to the ultimate degree: A friend is somebody whose bit is a 1 in that special database, all 1,296 or more that some of the friendless people on Facebook claim to have. Our definition is different. Different, to the point where "it's intelligent to understand the consequences of our behavior" and change it if doesn't work. The problem is, if we change to accept Zuckerberg's definition of "friend," and never be intimate with the same person twice, then we align ourselves with a condition that is causing millions of men to be depressed and do self-destructive things like drinking themselves to death. There's a reason that gay men are many times more likely to be alcoholics or drug abusers than other demographics, and I think this is that very reason.
     
  11. Nickw

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    Can you find emotional and sexual fulfillment with either sex as a Kinsey 3. Probably. My point is that one's sexual orientation remains regardless. And, if that means you are bisexual, I think it is a good idea to embrace it within your relationship...It is who you are. And, this takes work, I am finding, after being in a 35 year, monogamous, relationship.
     
  12. Tomás1

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    Let's see, TY for all your comments. For me, there's more to do sexually between a man and a woman, than two men. For a gay man, I can understand that there's more to do with another man!

    The FWB I fantasize about includes intimacy - that's the friendship part. I understand that for some, FWB is just an ongoing hookup. It depends on your level of emotional maturity. This may be judgmental, however there are different levels of emotional intelligence, depth and experience. My exp w sexual trysts wo intimacy is that they don't last long, because they don't have an emotional bond.

    In reflecting, I hate to say it but there's alot to be said for monogamy w a woman, even tho I've never been able to last for more than a few months. Same sex relations are generally threatening for a woman married to a bi man. I'm sure there's the exception. Yet monogamy creates a committed bond. You have to work out any desire to stray with your partner. The desire to stray may have historic family of origin or early childhood causes. It's smarter to heal those things, than continuously being at the effect of them.

    I'd have to sacrifice my acting out - and get my same sex needs fulfilled by heartful contact w other men, rather than sex - and channel whatever sexual longings I have into my rel w my woman.

    Changing yourself and your sexual expression, in favor of a longer term relationship goal, is not easy. Just last night, forgoing an online gay hookup, & phone sex... and having sex w myself, so as to break the hookup pattern, of easy gratification, was motivated by a longing for intimacy rather than quick hot sex. It was helped by my not having any alcohol - when I drink, I'm much more likely to hookup.
     
  13. Nickw

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    Historically, this is SORT OF what I have done. I have deep attachments to men in my life (non-sexual). These were a result of some extreme situations (rock climbing and mountaineering) plus a lot of days of skiing, biking etc. These intense activities, frankly, make me very horny at the end of the day. So, I was able to channel that into sex with my wife. It worked really well for a long time.

    Now, I am learning other ways to bring my same sex desires into the marriage. But, I am finding this more difficult as I age. It is a challenge, but, the relationship with my wife is the most important thing to me...so, it is worth it.
     
  14. A Seraphim Moon

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    Alot of what I read here... Well, it's not entirely all true. Honestly, it depends on alot of things. FWB for the most part is just what it says. You are just friends. But, you are able to get 'sex' without the baggage that comes with having a relationship and have 'sex' without all the risk that comes with having hookups.

    It seems you like the emotional connection you have been able to achieve with women. But, the men you have met or been with have lacked what you have been able to have with a woman. With that being said, you have inadvertently allowed your mind to close it off to the possibility. Thus, by doing so you are hardwired to prevent it from happening in the first place. Not all gay men are what you think or act how you perceive them to be nor the relationship you could have with them.

    So, with that said... I think you need to do some soul searching. I only say that because I have dated numerous bi men. Some who were already in a relationship with a woman or married, etc. 1 in particular... Him and his fiance had discussed in various depths of detail and finally decided he could have a friend with benefits. But, she had to meet him first.

    I had to pass an interview so to speak. Needless to say, that it changed later... She felt it wasn't fair to me nor to him that she was hindering feelings that could arrive. So, it was decided between the two of them they both felt more comfortable with him having a boyfriend instead. But, first and foremost she was number 1. If he needed another woman, well that was totally different. Lets just say if she was not aware of the female than it was considered cheating. Same with me, 1 guy for her and I both was ok, but multiple was not. If he wanted a different guy then he needed to break it off with me first and same process, she would need to meet him. It ended with her cheating on him.

    My point is... It depends on the guy you meet. People can surprise you if you just let them. That's all I'm really trying to say. If you don't open yourself up to the idea of having an emotional connection then you will never have a connection with a guy. You've let yourself become closed minded to it even being an option. Just something for you to think about! ^_^
     
    #14 A Seraphim Moon, May 30, 2016
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  15. biAnnika

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    Or you could go the entirely self-and-other-honest route and go for a committed polyamorous relationship with a woman. That would allow for a committed bond *without* the complete sacrifice of mm sex. Just a thought.
     
  16. Tomás1

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    [/QUOTE]

    Or you could go the entirely self-and-other-honest route and go for a committed polyamorous relationship with a woman. That would allow for a committed bond *without* the complete sacrifice of mm sex. Just a thought.[/QUOTE]

    That possibility never occurred to me. I have a judgement that poly rel don't work because they're not monogamous … will always allow u to slip out (not deal w) a difficult situation w 1 partner & go to another partner … just for sex. Men I've known in poly rel (all straight) seem to want a poly real w another woman bec they're not having sex (or bored) w their main partner.

    I like your idea. I've tried many times to give up mm sex but it's never worked. My long term fantasy has always been to b in a threesome rel w a woman & another man. I've heard of a few so I know it's possible.

    I sense that a committed poly bond w a woman wo sacrificing mm sex would allow for a loving intimate & sexual bond w a woman & a man - how awesome!
     
  17. Nickw

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    That's been my fantasy arrangement for awhile now. How one sets that up and finds those other, compatible, partners seems pretty tough. I am pretty discerning in my tastes in men. So, finding this will be difficult.

    In my case, I tried finding this discreetly (without my wife knowing). This was not going to work for me since extra-marital activities is not in my makeup (not judging here). But, while looking, I did find a guy in a similar situation and we discussed a closed relationship between us. Until we realized how silly it sounded that two cheaters wouldn't cheat on each other! So...it is possible! My wife is warming to the idea now that I am out with her.

    Best of luck in finding that sort of an arrangement. It could really work well!
     
  18. CameOutSwinging

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    For what it's worth, I've tried giving up sex with men and failed at it too. The urges always come back and I feel downright incomplete without it. I realize I'm more "gay" than you are, as you identify as bi and I'm really not sure I consider myself bi anymore, but still worth pointing out. When I was first officially with my wife three years ago, I said to myself no more men. Lasted a few months. Then I decided I can just masturbate with other guys, that's not cheating. Except that led me easily into situations where we were doing a lot more than just ourselves. It's a slippery slope when it's what you want.
     
  19. Tomás1

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    Nickw:

    We are on the same page... perhaps different paragraphs, you being in a satisfying long term marriage, me being divorced. However I sense you and I are looking for a similar thing: an intimate buddy, not just a hookup.

    I recall you saying your wife encouraged you to contact a guy who had flirted with you in the past. That comment made me wonder if you intend to pursue your own mm relationship?

    I've looked within, to see what I really want - the parameters of desire, in the context of being bisexual.

    - given the male practice of spreading our sperm, to the best possible partners, and as many as possible, what would it take to find one guy I can have a satisfying relationship with?

    - given the top/bottom divide among men having sex w other men, as a top, could I ever be content in relationship with the more submissive nature of a sexually compatible bottom? While I'm usually attracted to the energy of other tops, could I be satisfied with the more limited sexual expression possible? Could I ever let go of control and be a bottom?

    - from a spiritual and happiness context, since our egos usually run on dissatisfaction, isn't that dissatisfaction derived from the impossibility of ever finding our identical twin male flame, the one we long for? If I was satisfied and happy, in the present, I wouldn't need to search for anyone else, so maybe what I'm searching for is unmet needs within.

    - what is the male thing I long for? Could it be something within myself I'm searching for, but somehow I get fooled & think I'll find it in another guy?

    - could I be content with periodic great sex with another guy, and let go of my desire for deeper heartful intimacy, which is more difficult to find?

    Tomas
     
  20. Nickw

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    My wife and I are still just sorting out how to move forward recognizing that we have divergent sex drives and I am bisexual. We are bringing some gay into our relationship which includes me sharing my fantasies while she "helps" and guy watching so far. We are also really increasing non-sexual intimacy. Our relationship, it appears, is better than ever with this new honesty.

    My wife, I am finding, is really invested in my happiness. So, she is leaving the idea that I may need a FWB arrangement on the table. But, I want this to be a special arrangement...not a hookup deal. I derive a great deal of sexual energy from my outdoor exploits. My straight (I think) buddies will mention the same thing. There is an energy that is generated when males go "hunting for a mammoth". That is what I want to share sexually with another guy. And, this will take a special person.

    I have had the same thoughts on sex with men for me. Is it some sort of validation of myself? I am attracted, pretty much without exception, to guys that are built and look like me.

    I think I can be satisfied with one guy. But, it sounds like you maybe cannot. But, I was never great at one night stands with women and could not even go there with men.

    I wonder if you need to really explore a relationship with another guy that is deeper than just sex. I don't know about the whole top bottom power thing...my gay sex experiences are pretty limited. But, it seems to me that those definitions would be less important if your goal is to please your partner. Maybe look more at what you give than what you take? When I do that I usually get back more.