The Hungry Ghosts of Hookups

Good timing.

I've been working on this problem, and figuring out what I want to do to meet people on a deeper level. The way you describe it is the way it turns out, 99% of the time.

The guy who wouldn't want to do it with you after talking and having a beer is very typical. In fact, just yesterday I received this email from a prospect, who I'd been emailing. Since there's no personal information in the quote below, I've decided to share it with you:

"Hey thanks for
reaching back with more. However I'm not really
interested in getting to know more about someone. In this
case I like the idea more of the mystery of being anonymous.
I hope that makes sense.


"I don't want to offend you by not wanting to talk
more about <unrelated subject>. But role play sounds hot. Maybe
sometime."​

I actually was quite grateful he was so up front about this, because the other 99.9999% of the time, the communication just stops cold. It nearly always does, if there is a meeting. I wrote back and thanked him for his candor.

But note the lack of realism. If you're looking for someone to be dominant (or submissive for that matter), or for any kind of role play, wouldn't it make it better to actually know something about a person? Sometimes we can be such idiots. I'll leave it up to you whether you think I'm the idiot, he is, or both of us. All I know is this is not a coincidence, and I have unrealistic expectations. That's up to me to deal with.

This is classic "hooking up." What really pissed me off was when I hooked up with someone who lives three blocks away. That has led me to reexamine my whole approach. He'd be a good acquaintance, but like the rest after it was over (with apparent satisfaction for all), there is no answer to a follow up email whatsoever. Doing this with strangers in a big place is one thing, but I'm finally getting a clue just how socially destructive this is.

I really have no problem with hookups, per se. I don't even mind doing them. But I'm going to get out of my comfort zone and try alternative ways of meeting men (gay and otherwise), who are willing to actually engage with other men. I'm not trying to find someone to marry--what I'm looking for is 3D people to talk with. And I don't mean that football and sports shit the straight guys talk about all the time.

The funny thing is, in a short number of years I'm going to be reading complaints from these people how lonely they are. By then it will be hopeless.

 

For me, this is the key to your problem. What exactly are you offering the other guy? Sure, there are guys who get off just on giving head, but as you yourself say, many of them also want anal, presumably receptive, which in most cases you are not willing to provide. It seems to me you start from the premise that any action you get will be one-sided and perfunctory but are almost offended when afterward, no one wants to be your bro. Perhaps if you were a little more generous in what you are willing to do, and (possibly) who you're willing to do it with (i.e., not always the "hottest" guy you can find on the internet), you might be more successful in finding a FB/FWB/partner/husband.

 

Some of the same challenges exist in the 3D world, in other words, the "public." They are of a more general nature of course, not necessarily about sex in other words. Men are tough to connect with, I think we both know that.

As for web sites, one way or another in the gay world they are all hookup sites. The funny thing is, I was reading a piece in a marketing publication, about the development of sites that are for people to find friends, meaning platonic type friends. This works OK for women. When it comes to men, investors and developers can't figure out how to create a popular site for men to do this. The reason? One marketer stated, "It's taboo for men to admit they need more friends." How true that is.

And it is that last point, I think, that is mostly responsible for driving the anonymity on the hookup sites. The irony is, the driver actually has nothing to do with sex. Oh sure, many people could be like my correspondent who is turned on by the anonymity. The rest? Afraid of getting close to other men, other than for short term physical needs.

 

Faustian and Being dude

I am completely confused by your comments on how men are less interested in emotional attachments and how they are harder to connect with.

This is not my experience at all. I bond with men easily and quickly and I notice my friends doing the same thing. I wonder if this is related to sexual aspects of the relationship, that you are seeing that is the difference. Since I am not after sex, I wonder if it is a whole different experience.

Is it possible that you need to get the sexual encounter off of the table to really experience how men can, and will, open up to you?

 

My remarks were almost entirely about the non-sexual realm. I just somehow started from some comments about the amazing anonymity of hookup apps and sites.

If you're able to develop deep friendships with other men, especially often, then maybe I should get some advice from you. The state of male friendship has been the subject of an enormous body of both academic and media writing. It is beyond dispute that, at least in America, men have generally superficial social connections with other men, and rarely have deep friendships with non-relatives. One example of a good book that has explored this is Alone in America, by Louise Bernikow.

I suspect you may have a different definition of "friend" than I do. In this era of Facebook, it is very important to make this point. I have many professional "acquaintances," and have no problem having interesting social conversations with dozens of people in my community on an almost daily basis. If, on the other hand, I was hurting and needed help with something--especially of a personal nature--the list would be very short, and would include no one locally in the town where I live. It's not that I haven't put myself out there in the effort to help others, either.

And lastly, doesn't it seem rather odd that men can have all this anonymous sex, and not feel any connection from it? At least, 98 out of 100 times? This is not a problem women have--in fact, there is no such thing that I am aware of, as a "******" for women (to the left of this note, V-Bulletin has censored a six letter word naming a social hookup site for men, that starts with a "G" and ends with an "r"). It seems a clue like that is a big-assed elephant in the room, for us "sensitive" male types.

 

I will admit that my comments are based on personal experience. And, maybe I live in an area where guys relate differently...I don't even have a face book account.

I will also say that my access to friends is almost entirely based on sharing some sort of adventure. So, it is quite possible that I have a warped view of the world of other men. I didn't say you were wrong...only confused and questioning.

 

The adventure sharing aspect seems good to me. I think you're a bit ahead of me. That is the direction I'm moving toward (I guess I'd call it shared experiences to be a bit broader). I don't use Facebook either. It appears to me that "social media" has sold us a bill of goods that it is a plug and play replacement for real social interactions.

Anyway, if you do have a warped view it sounds like it is a very functional one for you. I wouldn't mind more of a "warp" of my own of that sort.

 

I was in the closet for thirty years as a bisexual. So, maybe I sought platonic male friends more than the typical man. Since I wasn't getting sexual intimacy I sought emotional intimacy instead. To be completely honest, I was well aware that this was what I was doing. One of the reasons I almost did the hookup, was that I was injured and not playing with my buddies...I needed to bond with a guy and my friends were not available. I thought sex would do the trick.

My therapist suggested that I needed to lean on my friends and, of course, they came through as I had for them through the years.

I still crave the sex with men. But, it is not as urgent since I am around my friends more and broadening the circle of friends.

 

I have to say that my experience has been more like NickW's in some respects. I always sort of assumed that it would be the case that it would be hard to form real friendships with other men but it never really was the case. To be honest I've always thought that it was sort of a perk of being gay that you didn't have to do the whole straight man reserve that prevented that sort of bonding. From what Nick is saying maybe it just isn't as much that way in general as I had thought. I've been amazed over the years at how these guys have been there for me through some really rough times. My experience is a little different in that a lot of my closest friendships actually did begin with a dating or sex component. I tended to become pretty close friends with a lot of my exes or hookups. I've been with my husband for 18 years and I'm still friends with a lot of guys where it started as dating or "dating."

I'm interested in the whole adventure sharing component too. When I first read the thread I thought "huh, that's different" but the more I think about it the more I realize that iwith most of my really closest friends there is that story which could very easily be described as the adventure we shared. There's something about that sort of experience that really does bond men together.

 

It's the cavemen hunting the mammoth thing. I wonder, if in modern society, we have lost that.

I also wonder if my "gay side" has aided me in being open to developing these relationships more than the typical male.

 

I agree with Weston that you need to take a hard look at your approach to hookups. You boast about your superiority in finding the hottest guys to take your load during a hookup, yet you then go on to lament how hard it is to find a meaningful connection. I hope you see the inherent conflict between these two goals. One is about power and submission while the other is about honesty and vulnerability.

Why do these kinds of hookups nourish your hungry ghost? Are you trying to assert your dominance over your attractive oral bottom as a way of escaping the shame you feel?

 

Perhaps then your Hungry Ghost longs for a real and genuine connection with another guy, even though you attempt to satisfy him through hookups.

Maybe you want to try something different next time you log onto a hookup app. Instead of trying to find the hottest bottom that you can find, why don't you strive to find the most interesting guy/bottom who is emotionally available and meets your minimum physical requirements? Chat with him and get to know him before hooking up. Talk about shared interests. See if this impacts the quality of the hookup. If it does, then try repeating this until you find a guy you click with as FWB or more.

Have you read The Velvet Rage? I know it's a book geared towards gay men; however, it's equally applicable to your gay side as a bisexual. I think reading (or rereading) it might help you with the lingering shame.

 

Based on my own research, I wouldn't recommend any hookup app or site to develop friendships. You can prove this to yourself, if you haven't already. When initially chatting with a guy on one of those apps, disclose something personal about yourself, or attempt to expand the conversation beyond the immediate purpose of the communication. In 99 of 100 of these interactions, communication from the other guy will instantaneously stop. We have to accept reality, even if our expectations are different. There are much better places (3D gatherings, etc.--not bars) to get to know people.

 

Based on my own experience, I totally disagree with what you've written about hookup apps/sites. I get a much higher success rate than 1% when trying to get know someone via these apps/sites. Many of the partnered guys that I know have met their partners via hookups. My relationship with my BF started as a hookup. Meeting guys via hookup is a viable way to meet gay guys!!!!

I agree that meeting in real life is an equally valid approach to meeting guys.

 

I only tried a hookup site once. I was pretty specific that there would be no sex right away. A FWB situation. I wrote looking for the dude not the dildo and any response with a dick photo would be deleted. The ad lasted an hour before another married guy similar to me responded. We met and decided neither of us could cheat. But, he seemed like a great guy who could be a friend.

I wonder if we really find what we look for?

 

Beingdude

Actually I wrote that maybe we GET what we are looking for. If you want something different you need to look for it in earnest. Even in my limited looking on a web site, I was able to determine which guys were the regulars. It is possible that if you spend enough time looking for the casual sex, you may have developed a reputation.