1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Male friendships

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by nerdbrain, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. nerdbrain

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    New York City
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I'm curious about gay/bi men's experiences of friendships with other men.

    In my own case, I had a close group of friends in high school and another in college. Over the years, I've grown quite distant from them, although we do occasionally keep in touch.

    I love all of those guys. I think each one is great in his own way, and I wish them only the best. But I don't really know how to express those feelings in a "manly" way. Male/male intimacy makes me uncomfortable because I worry that my affectionate feelings will lead to romantic/sexual ones. I've never had a fantasy about any of my friends -- but the idea that I might is very disturbing.

    Also, my own life has gotten pretty weird and lonely, so I'm ashamed to talk about it. I know none of them would care if I were gay, but my uncertainty and ambiguity is off-putting. I'm super self-conscious about not having things figured out. They've all met my wife and think she is great. They know we are separated and that I don't like to talk about it. But it's an elephant in the room.

    So I've managed to keep myself at a distance. And I really long for that connection.

    Anyway, I'd love to hear other people's experiences.

    Actually, I wanted to add one more thing. This issue has started to come up for me in therapy recently. My therapist is gay and we've been talking about how I keep him at arm's length. I think it's the same story: I worry I may develop sexual/romantic feelings.

    My relationship with my father was pretty cold and logical when I was a child. There wasn't much masculine warmth or bonding. So I don't really have a template for male intimacy. It's either keeping men at a distance, or the fear of getting too close and wanting sex.
     
    #1 nerdbrain, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  2. Tomás1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It's good that you recognize how you "keep men at a distance, or the fear of getting too close and wanting sex". I used to be part of a group that did intimacy workshops, and they always said intimacy is "in to me you see". I have always found that when I have the courage to speak of "the elephant in the room", open up about my feelings, even if they're something like "I feel weird when I'm with you" or "i love you"... the other person always responds in an intimate way - it brakes the ice. People are afraid to talk about their feelings. If you have the balls to talk about yours, it gives them permission to talk about theirs.

    It's good to be part of groups with others that you have things in common with - regardless of whether they're straight or gay groups, women or men. I'm part of a meditation group, and a social action group. It breaks down the isolation.

    I hear you about "getting close and wanting sex"... whenever a man is friendly toward me, I usually take that to mean he wants to have sex with me... which is not always the case. There are ways you can check it out, without asking directly - such as noticing sustained eye contact, or touching him gently, shaking hands, rubbing up against him... and noticing whether he pulls away, or is comfortable with it.
     
    #2 Tomás1, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  3. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Nerdbrain

    This is a topic dear to me too.

    Several things happened the last couple years to me. When I was injured, I began seeing my friends less because I could no longer keep up so I thought I couldn't share, my best friend is related to my wife and they became estranged and another friend developed a life threatening heart condition. I had no idea how profoundly this affected me until my therapist asked me to tell him about my friends. I started crying and couldn't even finish the session.

    I never think of any of my friends as sexual playmates, even when we are naked (sounds odd but I am naked a lot with my buddies). So, I do not have a problem trying to keep them at arms length to avoid attraction while building emotional intimacy. I have never considered any of my friends sexually. But, I do recognize that they do fill a void in my need for male companionship that may not be entirely straight.

    Nerdbrain, I would not fear that being emotionally intimate with your friends will lead to sexual attraction. At this point in your life you probably know that sexual chemistry is a two way deal or the reaction just doesn't take. Do not even worry about it!

    I am of the mind set that a male cannot function without the bond with other males. If this is missing from your life, I would suggest doing everything you can re engage with your friends.
     
    #3 Nickw, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  4. A Mindful Wolf

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Gender:
    Male
    I find that maintaining male relationships is much easier with straight guys as opposed to gay guys. At least with straight guys, no matter how much I crush on them, I have confidence in my reasoning that I won't do something awkward. I'm pretty shy anyway, so I would never make the first move...Gay guys however...I find it quite impossible to make gay male friends my own age because of "hookup" culture and infidelity. Kinda depressing.
     
  5. nerdbrain

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    New York City
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Hey Nick -- I figured you'd be replying to this one :slight_smile:

    I'm starting to realize that I don't really know how to build emotional intimacy with another guy. Probably because I'm still holding on to the idea that men exchanging feelings is inherently "gay." I think this goes all the way back to grade school.

    My tendency is often to flatter or over-help or try to be accommodating, in a servile or sycophantic way. I'm desperate for their approval. I really hate this aspect of my personality, which comes from my mother. I know what kind of man I want to be -- someone who is calmly present, respected and confident -- but I feel pathetically short of that ideal. It's easier to just avoid my friends than have to feel inferior and neurotic around them.

    Also, I hear my friends bonding over sports a lot. I know little about sports and frankly they bore me. I can't understand why these people, who I generally admire, would waste so much thought/energy on this nonsense. On the other hand, I feel self-conscious that I'm uninterested in sports, since that is so stereotypically gay.
     
  6. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Nerdbrain.

    I think it is human nature to feel uncomfortable around other males that may exhibit superior physical abilities. It is part of evolution I suppose. Some of us do not want to be dominated by other males as you have expressed in the past. Evolution no longer applies to me either, so fk it!

    Certainly, I have felt those same feelings of inadequacy and needing approval. Mostly, when I was younger. I have learned to seek out men who are, really, equals to me ,to avoid that. I also try and avoid men who I dominate or men who are too much younger. I don't like any of that shit. And, most of my friends are similar in stature.

    None of my friends like "sports" so those convos never happen with my friends. But, with casual acquaintances, it comes up as an ice breaker really. It is easy to change the subject. I am not sure most guys really want to talk about sports that much...sorta autopilot. Mention cars or pickups:dry:

    I don't worry about what sounds gay. I was teased once about something and just grabbed my friend and kissed him on the cheek and said..."now that's gay"! It sounds like,you really care for some of thes guys. So, regardless of the mindless talk of sports, or pickups, it may still be good to just sit down and talk.

    There is no harm either in redirecting your relationship a bit. Some of your friends may be tired of the same old stuff and would welcome a change of subject! You will not really know until you give it a shot!
     
  7. HereWeGo

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    This is an interesting topic. I had a party at my house yesterday with about 30 or so adults who have been an important part of my life over the past few years. With work and this whole coming out shit I realized how much I missed my male friends. (there were women at the party too... Not all men).

    First off, I'm not sexually attracted to any of my guy friends. Only one knows of my current struggle with my sexuality. He's pretty masculine, married and way into soccer... Yet he confided in college he had a six month relationship with a guy.

    The point I'm doing a poor job in making is that I really value the friendships I have with my male friends... But I choose friends who speak from the heart, who aren't guarded and who I can be vulnerable with. We always greet with hugs. Some are into sports and they know I'm not, and of story, no judgement placed.

    There's only one guy I'd be afraid to tell about my situation. It sucks because he's a very guarded guy... let's say he's well respected in the music industry, but hates to talk about his work with most people but shares with me. And I feel honored he does that, that he trusts me, but I worry that telling him the truth would push us apart... I'm afraid he's see me in a different light.

    Okay, I think I'm drifting of topic... All this to say, I think you can have fulfilling relationships with guys without the sexual wanting... Maybe it is different with gay guys but I can't really speak to that.

    But it was in that moment seeing all my friends together at the party that I realized how great some of my male relationships are.
     
  8. xenu

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Tulsa
    Thats a problem we all have to deal with. I too tend to keep a bit of distance between myself and straight guys for this very reason. Its just too easy for affection to go the wrong way. Tbh, I tend to prefer to company of other non-heteros where this is less of a problem.
     
    #8 xenu, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  9. 50ishandout

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Boston
    Very interesting topic. I find it much easier to be around my Straight Friends. There's no exception on my part. Even when I'm with one of my oldest friends whom I had a crush on as a kid. Not that I ever told him that.

    When I'm with my Gay Friends I'm never sure how to approach issues if I have feelings towards someone. It's such a strange situation for me.
     
  10. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I'm trying now to move into uncharted territory. I am looking for a FWB, but it really needs to be a good friend first. So, I want to have it both ways. I am not even sure where to start with this. Not sure when I am meeting someone I can ask "Hey, if this works out as friends do you want to fool around later"?

    My wife mentioned she would be O.K. with me messing around with a couple friends of mine she likes. But, I would never approach them. I have never even thought of them as potential playmates until she brought it up. She hates the idea of me involved in a casual hookup.

    What's a guy to do? Where is that secret handshake when you need it?
     
  11. SiennaFire

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,161
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    Boston
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Friendships are fairly straight forward with straight men.

    Gay friends are fun. In general, gay friends are more touchy-feely than straight friends, so hugging and kissing as a form of goodbye are common. So is touching and flirty behavior. I've also hooked up with a guy who started as a friend.

    This is a tough one that will probably take longer than you'd like. I would approach it as follows. I would start with hookup sites and CL and create a profile/place an ad that you are looking for a FWB and list out your specific interests. You'll have to chat with a lot of guys and hone your profile/ad until you start attracting the kind of guy you want. Another approach would be to go to LGBT meetups that are of interest to you (such as an LGBT mountaineering group) assuming that you are sufficiently out to do so.

    The reality is that you'll probably make faster progress (and have a lot more fun) if you are willing to hook up earlier in the process, though I'm guessing that's off the table.
     
    #11 SiennaFire, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  12. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Yeah. That's the problem. My wife really is concerned about STD's. So, it is going to take awhile. That's OK she has agreed to let me shop right now but is still unsure of me purchasing. Shopping can be fun!

    I live in a small town, so I need to watch how out I am until my wife quits her job...high profile...I'm high profile too. It makes it difficult. But, it is what it is. Funny, I could be out as gay and it would be no problem! Bi would be a scandal right now unless it is with someone I would be hanging out with anyway.

    My wife did suggest I look up the bartender who propositioned me to see if he knew someone in a similar situation.

    The other problem is that I am not going to hide from some other guy's wife. There are lots of closeted married guys. (No offense to my recent self)
     
    #12 Nickw, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  13. SiennaFire

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,161
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    Boston
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    STI can be managed by being open and honest about your activities, having safer sex, and having a regular testing regimen. Yes, I realize that it's not that simple because it's not really about the STI :slight_smile:

    You'll need to figure out what kind of FWB you are looking for. Another married man who is in an open relationship or a single man (bisexual or gay)? Each has their own set of tradeoffs ...

    You could solve a lot of problems if you came out as gay :slight_smile:
     
    #13 SiennaFire, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  14. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I knew that was coming! I could always lie about it just to get laid!

    I have jokingly outed myself dozens of times so I am not super worried about being sort of out. I have worn rainbow bracelets before to support same sex marriage too. And, I have never been afraid to dance with gay guys at social functions. I was the most uncloseted closeted bi guy ever!
     
  15. Tomás1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Nick … I'm reflecting on your search - I should say our search - for a fwb. As men attracted to other men, & the most intense bonding experience of sex … after years of searching, & sex w approx 75 men, I've experienced how elusive the search can be. W the complications of being bi, & not wanting a committed partner … to the dance of top & bottom, degrees of attraction, compatibility, & having things in common w another guy … I'm becoming less attached to finding my twin soul fwb. After searching for something & not finding it, it's only intelligent to let go.

    We often search for that thing that can only be found inside - deep peace & satisfaction.
     
    #15 Tomás1, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  16. SiennaFire

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,161
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    Boston
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    The paradox is that once you find deep peace & satisfaction inside yourself and let go of your attachment and expectation of finding your twin soul fwb, you'll be ready and grateful to receive the love of your twin soul FWB when your paths cross (most likely) in an unexpected way.
     
    #16 SiennaFire, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  17. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Beingdude

    It is quite possible that finding the friend I desire, who will be acceptable to my wife, will come down only to a fantasy. But, the search will be fun! I have never done anything in my life halfway, so I see no need to start that now! And, I can wait...I'm only mid fifties! Lol. I am not looking for a soulmate either...I have that! I can always just satisfy my sexual experimentation urges with something less too if I fail to find this situation.

    SiennaFire. I am not sure that the sort of bond you're describing is the same thing as a good friend who you have sex with. I sorta can't open up to allow that for a FWB!
     
    #17 Nickw, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  18. SiennaFire

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,161
    Likes Received:
    246
    Location:
    Boston
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I was commenting on BeingDude's post. I suspect that you and he are looking for different things in FWB.
     
  19. Nickw

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    Out West
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Yeah. I agree. I think we are looking for something different. I'm looking for a playmate and Beingdude is looking for a soulmate. Misread you...thought you were sneaking in a way to up my Kinsey score again! :dry:
     
  20. Tomás1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I don't believe in soul mates. Nice concept … but just a concept … altho I know of straight & gay people who've found them, so I don't deny it totally.

    SF hit my point - the less attached we are to finding a fwb, a soulmate, a fb, whatever, the more likely it is it'll happen. Why? When we let go of it, we're more relaxed human beings, w less expectations, & more open to whoever comes our way … instead of "looking" for our type.