I've been reading through all the things that's Siennafire pointed me to regarding shame, internalised homophobia, living authentically, etc. - Thanks Siennafire!! (*hug*) I think I've identified some things I need to do now that I'm *very* out, and now that taking that step has uncovered some discomfort and raw emotion... I want to use this space to map out some of the actions I want to take. And please share insight with me, or comments, whatever you feel like sharing. Some initial thoughts on my feelings: Some of my discomfort comes from shame, some from just the emotional shock of having opened up and exposed myself so much, but there's also this thought about how it impacts my husband. I wonder if I haven't been a bit too bold without thinking about him first... He doesn't know I did this FB announcement and he wouldn't be pleased with it. But I think it's really my call ultimately because we agreed that there are certain people he'd rather not tell and I excluded them from the post. I think it's not ideal that I did something he'd be upset by, and that I haven't mentioned it to him. But I also feel it's not wrong. Does that make sense? ....I know I know, I should tell him... :/ About the shame and internalised homophobia. I'm trying to just let those feelings roll out and roll off of me. When I start to feel anxious or suddenly panicked, I take deep breaths, and I remind myself that I am who I am, and I love who I am. I realised something about my shame... I don't think this is going to make sense fully, but I think that, more so than thinking negative things about homosexuality, much of the shame comes down to feeling like something's wrong with *me*. And no matter how comfortable I might feel in accepting my need for intimacy with a woman, or in seeing other same sex couples being intimate, still there's a nagging feeling that deep down I'm a fucking mess. This feeling doesn't surface that much anymore, but that's one that has come through a lot in the last few days. Ok so, how can I go forward from there and embrace and be me, without apology? Basically it comes down to incorporating my queer into my life. Here are some thoughts on doing that: Being more visible - I keep feeling like it's not enough, my secret's still following me. I want to be able to be me, it doesn't have to be loud, I just don't want it to be invisible. - outing myself with LGBT people I meet. I want to make it a point to out myself with other queer people I meet. I'd like to start with this gay woman at work. I've been thinking of ways to do that - talk about the vigil, talk about Pride, ask her directly, where do you find more LGBT friends/community... Etc. - wearing pride accessories. Like little rainbow bracelets, tees, necklaces. I ordered some of this stuff, now just waiting for them to arrive. Being connected to lgbt community - I *need* this in my life. -I am going to a meetup Monday, and of course going to Pride. I'd like to make and maintain friendships this way. - I have started my own meetup and I'm waiting until the kickoff date (in September) -I'm going to use some of the other things I mentioned in my LGBT friends thread, especially finding events and so on through Twitter and Facebook Immersing myself in queerness - make this something I see and hear and talk about more in my everyday life. - get into more films, books, etc with queer themes. -maybe work on my own story that I have been wanting to write (with very queer themes) I have one sort of outlined in my head, but I'm terrible with follow through. Being with women - this is supposed to happen through opening up the marriage which we've been talking about for a while. - talk to my husband about a timeline to finally start this. We just keep talking and talking. It's time to make it more than just talk, in my opinion.
I forgot to add one thing to my list - sorting through shame in counselling. I'm on s waiting list now...
He probably will just keep on talking and talking about an open relationship, and in the meantime, your standing still. You have a need to be completely open, and being with him seems to be impeding that. Again, I know part of your issue is financial stability and security for yourself and your daughter, so you need to decide what is a priority. But it might be time you sort through the financial security piece so you can have the freedom you are looking for.
Well, I have to take a little of the blame here, as well as some things that are both of our faults - I haven't yet demanded or pushed for a timeline. I was trying to be patient, but he's always adding one more thing to sort through. Now I'm ready to say ...well when do we say, ok now we start doing this. So... Given all of that, it still comes down to either we do this as a team or I go my own path. So what you say is true, I need to think about whether I can even be me in this marriage, or whether I need to go my own path. But I think there's room for a push from me to try to move things forward more quickly. In terms of separation though, because of financial stability and because of my visa status (I'm on a dependent visa), and lots of other logistics, we'd have to wait a year or so to even consider separation. That's the path I'll take if it comes down to it, but it will be a long way away. ---------- Post added 18th Jun 2016 at 08:52 AM ---------- I posted s response, and bumped the thread with the advice from Siennafire. See "Feelings. So many of them."
You've got a great outline there, baristajedi. You are doing fabulously! Am I the only one here who doesn't feel shame about same-sex stuff? Sorry if this is coming from left field. I've been "out" to myself as bisexual for 30 years now, so maybe this is just a function of it being my "normal" for sooooo long. My anxieties with regard to coming out are mostly about fear of rejection and potential loss of current friendships and relationships. I worry about people that I care about not wanting me around any more. I honestly don't have any "shame" about having same-sex attractions or desires. I'm bi, that's the way I am, it's perfectly normal, it hasn't changed, there is nothing wrong with it at all, even if it's not commonplace. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term, I don't know. Anyhow, I don't want to derail your thread, but it just sparked this reaction in me. Your plan looks great - go forth and be awesome!
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, my shame was born first with sexual abuse. I may have been much more open and comfortable with being queer from an earlier age had I not been abused. In my case I did have a fairly normalised view of homosexuality, because I was taught by my mom that gay was ok. But of course the more prevalent message I heard about being gay was icky, dirty, weird, etc. That view on top of my shame from the abuse adds up to one confused kid ...and apparently that carried over for a long long time.
Adray Even though I wasn't out. I have not felt shame about my attractions for a very long time. The fear of rejection...yes. The fear of my private feelings becoming public...yes. But, looking in the mirror...No. I did feel shame for trying to fulfill those desires by cheating. This caused all sorts of issues with me. The worst was that I started to close myself off and become guarded about pretty much everything. That is not me at all...I am very open to others. ---------- Post added 18th Jun 2016 at 06:01 PM ---------- Barista. I have to disagree with onthehighway. Your husband has had a lot less time to deal with your sexual needs than you have. I am impatient with my wife too. Each conversation seems be to bit a little different regarding her feelings about my same sex exploring. But, I am going to trust her that she just needs to work this out and know that she wants me to be happy. Eventually, she needs to be comfortable or it will not work anyway. That is not the same as keeping the conversation going though. I think this needs to happen. After all, they are our needs, not our spouses; so, moving it on is necessary. Although, maybe gently,
thanks Nick. I think it is important for me to be understanding and patient with my husband in this. But I do think I need to push ahead s bit, he doesn't seem to want to make the leap from talking to doing. I get it, i understand his fears.but I think it will take pushing to get him there. I'm trying to be gentle... I do want him to be comfortable in this. How do you make progress with your wife? Do you feel like you're able to push gently?
Barista My wife and I fell into a long period of low intimacy. So, we are working on that right now. I am bisexual and I need her for me to be sexually fulfilled. So, that is first on my agenda. I am willing to wait before I actually start being with men. Maybe I won't need to. But, I think I will. But, I really feel our marriage has to be super strong to tolerate being open. I must keep my wife knowing this is a desire of mine. So,in our fashion, we tease about it. We check out guys for me to do...fantasy wise for now. But, there is, certainly, a sense of comfort my wife is developing with the sort of thing I am looking for. As a benefit, it is a turn on for me and a way to bring some gay into the marriage. I also am not shy with how often I desire sex. It may be unfair, I suppose, but she needs to see this and realize she probably won't be able to satisfy my needs. Meanwhile, I am the world's best husband!
Nick, this is all helpful, thank you! I don't think I'm nearly as patient as you... I have some reasons for that, though. For one, I've been extremely patient through our whole relationship with a lot of crap, and I feel it's time now to focus on me. Also, I don't have quite the same certainty that things are going to work out with my husband as you do with your wife, even though we've come a long way, and he's certainly showing that he's willing to make things work. I'm trying to be optimistic but remaining as realistic about it as I can (I can't be a martyr again). And finally, I think I'm more close to the "mostly gay" side of things...which means to me I have to have a woman/women in my life to be fulfilled. It's a deal breaker. It seems your situation is a little different than mine. But your advice is always helpful to me in terms of seeing how we maybe *can* make it all work, and how I can keep my husband's needs in mind as well.
I agree each of us has a unique situation. It seems you need, much more than I, to navigate the practical aspects of maintaining a marriage and I am trying to navigate the romantic aspects. It does sound like you need to be a bit more assertive since your gay needs are, possibly more urgent.
I feel like I am still trying to work my way through shame/internal homophobia. I found your posts really interesting though as I too have never actually felt ashamed of being attracted to women, I've never thought it was wrong or bad and being with a woman has also felt so good and normal (being with a man has too). But I do also have a fear of rejection (when I previously came out the reactions weren't always positive - one 'friend' at the time said she thought it was disgusting). And also a fear of my private feelings becoming public. I think a lot (if maybe not all) of my shame has come from my mentality of thinking for many years that it was something I had to keep secret. And I suppose with secrets come shame? I think keeping it a secret has been unhealthy for me - I think it's so much better out in the open and expressed freely. Hard to change my way of thinking though? Anyway, sorry if I hijacked your thread a bit there Barista! Just thought it was interesting!
Yea Sorry Barista for our hijack But, to be fabulously gay, we need to leave behind this "shame". But, I, like Adray and Dirtyshirt it seems, cannot really feel this within. For me it is more about what problems others, that I care about, might have with my sexuality. That it might change a relationship that I value perhaps. Or, embarrass my wife...the big issue. But, internally, it has not been a struggle for nearly 40 years. Next week, I set that aside all that at the pride event here. I am going to be "out" for a couple of days and I don't give a Sh!t if I get caught. My wife suggested going to a dance as my lesbian friend and seeing what happens...unbelievable!
You guys can hijack, we're here to talk about everybody's thoughts and experiences. I'm interested in hearing more about the worry of rejection. I had less of the fear of rejection, but more along the lines of fear of invalidation. It has been my experience in my life that I have been known to get easily discouraged from certain things I feel strongly about based on insecurity, if I thought others didn't approve. It's hard to articulate exactly what I mean. But I think that has played a role in keeping me from acknowledging my sexuality for much of my life. Does any of this connect to the fears you guys have had in terms of rejection?
Yes, I totally relate to this. Especially coming out as Bi, I am particularly worried about my sexuality and/or feelings being invalidated. I think sometimes people either assume you are just bi-curious and trying to be cool or gay and in denial/using Bi as a transitional label. I used to sometimes feel as though I end up having to justify myself. I think I'm finally starting to care less what people think though.
