I'm reading Jedi's threads about labels. Ithink I need to process about labels for a few minutes. In coming out conversations, I have largely used the phrase "not straight". This has worked pretty well, because in those conversations I cared enough to explain how I have liked some guys, the guys I have liked have mostly been gay, that doesn't really work out, odds of me ever finding a guy Ilike who likes me are super, super low, and that for the most part dating or attempting to date guys is really stressful. Looking at dating profiles of men almost always makes me grit my teeth really hard. I do feel mostly gay, mostly lesbian. But, I know that there was one guy I dated who I was really into sexually. I had told him that I was mostly into women, but because of religious reasons Ididn't feel like I could go there, and I hadn't really been with guys before, and he was accepting of that. I think he almost took it as a little bit of a challenge to show me that I really had what it takes to like guys, too. I don't know if for him it was about a challenge or about trying to help me or you know just about available boobs or what. He was super smart, working on his PhD in Math, and to me super smart is hot. Like, instead of having him talk dirty, I would have him explain Calculus stuff while we were doing whatever, and then he was like, I'm never going to be able to stand up in front of the class while I teach this ever again. I felt like the emotional side of our relationship felt really lesbian, lol. That relationship was emotionally the closest I have ever had to the super close friendlationship I had with my college roommate. And, the stuff that I enjoyed doing with him the most was also stuff I could do with a woman. Sometimes it was like, aaah, why is this dick staring at me? What am I supposed to do with that? There were a couple things I could do with a dick that seemed pretty good and entertaining, but, actual fucking.... Not really. Even in this best case scenario relationship -- which basically broke up because of my religious hang ups about sex ugh -- how much did I actually like the guy junk downstairs... 1 is repuslive and hated it, 10 is couldn't get enough.... ... ... ... Like a 5? Like, occasionally interesting, but, kind of incidental that it was there? Like, it was attached to an interesting and wonderful person, so I guess I'll do something with it? .... Yeah.... I guess because I really did enjoy the experience with him in particular, and I have had crushes on guys, and I have enjoyed making out with guys, I feel like there's some capacity for guys. And, I can get off with guys, even with that other guy who was terrible (different story). But, there's nothing like guy specific that get's me going or gets me off? ..... Even with that guy I really, really liked, at one point we were talking about my religious hang ups about sex, and I basically said that if I was going to go against my religious principles, why would I just do it halfway and be with a guy, I would be with a woman instead, because that's what I really wanted.... So, maybe for long term sexual satisfaction with just one partner, being with a guy would never really do it. I'm attracted to the person, for sure, cliche as that sounds. This guy, Iliked his personality and the emotional connection and his brain and that he was a generally sensual person. But, I felt like Iwas trying to imagine I was someone else looking at him in order to see that he was hot. (Rate My Professor thought he was off the charts.) I guess, talking to myself here, I sound pretty gay, but I guess in my imagination if I were *really* gay, I would have hated 100% of the things about dating guys. Like, on that how do I feel about the D scale, it would be a 1. Like, never touch one of those ever. (Really, the main time I am interested in the D is if I can pretend it's mine.) Scale of 1 to 10, how much do Iwant one of those in my mouth.... Like, 2. Like, I'll do it for you if I have to. Scale of 1 to 10, how much do Iwant my face in pussy? Like 9. I am happy to drown there, and it would be a 10 if I had more confidence that Icould do it right. ... ... ... Damn, I do sound pretty gay. I guess I feel like I'm not allowed to say I'm gay because I can have any kind of attraction to guys or emotional connection to guys, at least sometimes. But, aren't people always saying that women's sexuality is fluid and driven by emotional connection? I think Iwas trying to make my exception the norm. I don't have to be a gold star lesbian to be a lesbian. ... ... Before Istarted writing this, Ifelt like it was a little deceptive to label myself as lesbian when I assume I'm actually a little bit bi. Now I'm thinking, if I ever labeled myself bi, that feels deceptive, because even though I can have some attraction and fun with a guy, I always wish it were a girl instead, and I don't think Icould have a long term relationship with a guy and be ok. Like, if there were a 3 way with a really nice guy in the room, it probably wouldn't turn me off. But, he would not be the focus of my attention. So..... Sounds like I'm pretty gay. Being able to make out with a guy for a long time does not make me straight. Means Ilike making out. Mouths are all pretty similar. ... My heart did an anxious and nauseous wiggling around in my chest just now when I imagined acutally telling other people I'm "gay" or "a lesbian". Internalized homophobia continues. In talking to myself about my orientation, I have been telling myself that I'm a very les-leaning bi. Though I have not been upset when others call me gay, Ihave just considered it shorthand for "very les-leaning bi". I think I need to practice calling myself gay/lesbian, to myself. Idon't think it's shorthand for anything. I think it just is. And if I have a little bit of additional make out capacity for crazy parties (ha, like Iever go to those), so be it. Ok. So, this weekend, practicing talking to myself about being actually a lesbian rather than 90-10 bi. Maybe later in the weekend I'll change it on my EC profile...
I struggled for a long time with labels, for some reason "bi" didn't feel right, and I'm neither 100% hetero or 100% gay (or at least, not 100% of the time).. but I am also someone who neeeeds to label things. In the end, it was related to internalised homophobia causing me to misunderstand what bisexual really meant - which happens to be a lot of different things to different people. Today, I am proud to call myself bi. Labels may or may not fit, and may change over time. The most important thing is to be OK with who you are, label or no label. And to realise we as humans are always changing, and label change or not, to be ok with that too! Glad to hear you're feeling more identification with the label you're choosing - if you have a label, identification with it is important too. Awesome stuff! (Note, all subjective and only my opinion, of course!)
Our history does not necessarily define our sexual orientation, they are different. You sound 100% Lesbian to me, for what it's worth. I'd say go forth and be proudly lesbian! For contrast, using your 1-10 scale example, I would be somewhere around a 10 for pussy and approximately 10 for dick. LOL. I love your posts, Katchoo. So thoughtful and well-written.
You know how people talk about situational homosexuality, and how it doesn't count as being gay? Maybe I was like situationally straight, and that situation was the conservative, religious, rural south. Maybe? Like, can't have ladies, so, try this thing I dint really like just to meet the need.
I was hung up on switching to the lesbian label for a while for the exact same reason.... there was that one guy. Then, I found out pretty much every lesbian I have met has that one guy. And some a few more than that. For me, the switch was made when I realized I don't want to pursue men any more at all. Sure, I feel like I'm capable of falling for a man, but I feel like something would always be missing, and I'd really prefer a woman by a lot. Also, I used to get that lump in the throat feeling and heart racing when I thought of myself as lesbian or said it out loud. And I even found when I did say it at first, I'd whisper it. What the hell was that? Now, it's just normal to me. And it's only been a few months. I like it. If feels comfortable, even though some people double take when they hear me say it.
Yep I definitely had that one guy, which is the main reason I am keeping the bi label for now. Nope I never dated or had sex with that guy. He made me feel warm, safe and protected. He was also caring and understanding and always tried to cheer me up. The more I think about it now, the more I realize I might love him like a big brother. I never had the urge to make out with him. I used to think that if we ever started dating, I would love to hang out, eat dinners and watch movies with him but I never ever wanted to see him naked. So maybe deep down I am a lesbian (actually the longer I stay on EC and the more posts I read, the stronger I feel that way). I don't care that much anymore though. First thing I will do when I get a job is to adopt a dog, humans will come when they come... Funny thing is my family and friends all think I am a lesbian so I am only bi on EC I definitely told them I was mostly attracted to girls and occasionally to guys but whatever. Some days I even sense my family are relieved that no guy will ever come and take away their little girl from them (might be my wishful thinking though).
Okay. Using your scale I'd say eating pussy=2 and dick in my mouth=9. But playing with boobs is also about an 8. Weird, huh?
This is an interesting thread, particularly with regard to separating history from orientation. I like your scale too. If that's your personal preference, it's not weird. For me, oral on a man = 1, I will avoid it if I can and spend the whole time trying not to be sick. I've never tried it on a woman, but I'd be interested in giving it a go.
Your post was really interesting Katchoo, I've been thinking about this a lot recently, bi vs lesbian as a label. Obviously I'm coming at it from a different place as I'm currently married to a man, but have been with men and women in the past. When I look back and think about people I've slept with I realised that with a lot of the men I enjoyed the sex but there was a lack of emotional connection for me (although not the case with my husband), where as I've never had sex with a women where it hasn't been emotional. I've only slept with 2 women so its entirely possible that it could be, but I can't imagine it. With the men definitely more meaningless fucking. I wonder if I'm thinking a lot about women now as I have been in a relationship with a man for so long. Like, if I had been in a relationship with a women for this long, would I then be thinking a lot about having sex with men? And does having sex with a women seem exciting because it is also something a bit subversive or is that actually my preference? Anyway, just thinking out loud. Would be interested in hearing other people's thoughts! I wonder if anyone really is 100% straight or gay? Katchoo you say 90 Lesbian, 10 Bi, but I guess in the real world that translates as Lesbian. Most people probably have a strong preference but do also have some capacity to be interested in the other sex too?
I guess it's not TOO weird....it has shifted though, today I feel like I'm about a 3 maybe a 4 for pussy. Which is something like "It's okay, might as well since it's here."
The percentage thing is dumb but a really convenient way to talk about it. Lately 90/10 seems right, but I've previously saI'd 70/30 or 80/20. If asked by some people, I just changed the subject, lol. I guess a big question to ask myself.... if I had the opportunity for a relationship with a man, even a good man, do I think I would take it?.... Right now, no. I have tried. Ithe doesn't work for me. Maybe no one is 100% whatever. If I don't want to date men, why would I publicly identify as bi...
That's how I changed my label from bi to les. I really can't see going back to men. I prefer women, I want a woman, why identify as bi?
Rose, it helps to hear that someone had a similar label progression. Thank you. I want a label change to be accompanied by a video game level up aound effect.
For me, I WOULD prefer a relationship with a man, but it's basically whomever is available that I'm into. Gender isn't as important, as availability and mutual interest.
Yeah, I may be at the point that with maybe an exception for someone really magical, I might turn someone down simply for being a man, because I'm so tired of trying that. I'd be down for genderqueer though.
I've met a few genderqueer people, very lovely folks. Jury's still out on whether or not I qualify! :lol:
