I don't think loneliness is a new problem for me. I think it has been a problem most of my life. I'm sure it goes back to being a teenager, with my dad out getting drunk and my mom out so she could avoid being around my dad, and me at home taking care of my brother who is 9 years younger than me (so we're talking 6 when I was 15). And I didn't have any close friends in high school. Friends sure, people I knew in class, but nobody I talked to or kept in touch with after. The one time I can really point to having a close friend as a kid was when I was 12-13 and he was my best friend and lived down the block from me. And then his family moved away. We're FB friends now and roughly keep in touch that way, but not really. So I've always felt pretty lonely. In college, my senior year, I made a ton of friends. Literally, I was never alone. I was always hanging out with at least a few people. But by the end of the year, with the prospect of going back home and possibly never seeing most of these people again (in fact, I've stayed close with quite a few and they're core members of my friend group) I felt super alone and very easily fell into a relationship with a girl. Because that meant I wouldn't be alone. And it worked, in a way. I mean, literally, we spent almost 24/7 with each other for 7 years. So, I wasn't alone. And yet I wonder if I was ever really that emotionally vulnerable with her. I wonder if I didn't still seek out sex at all times with both her and with guys (with her knowing) because I longed for a connection that I felt quickly and intensely during sex. I don't think I'm the kind of guy who just wants to get off. Heck, I don't really have sex just for orgasm sake. And I like when sex lasts for a long time. I just want the closeness, feeling another person on me and being as intimate physically as one can be with them. After that relationship ended and I started dating the next woman I was with (am with? Who knows...) it was different. She works a lot. She has her own life and friends and generally is quite independent. And I thought that was good. That it would mean I would become the same kind of independent person. But, well, it didn't. Instead I felt bad when she didn't want to do everything I wanted. And I felt lonely when she wasn't free all the times that I was and I was left by myself. When seeing her after we officially moved in together meant an hour and a half, mostly involving eating dinner, because she got home late from work and passed out or decided to go to bed right after. I felt really alone. This isn't even about sex. Yes, the sex was lacking too after she told me that she felt too pressured to have sex with me all the time to keep me happy. And she's not the only person who has ever said this to me. And now here I am, living in my own apartment. And feeling really lonely. And turning to her to not feel so alone. And I don't entirely get why. It's not like I couldn't meet a guy if I wanted to. Heck, I've met a few. I could make any one of them my boyfriend right now and they'd be happy. But I'm not entirely drawn to that. And it's complicated. I still end up mostly feeling really lonely. Again, I don't lack friends. I have tons. So many that I barely get to even see most of them all the time. On any given day I'm text messaging at least 5 or 6 people, not strangers I've met on dating sites, but actual people who I'm close with and are my friends (I guess the number might even be more like 9 or so since there's a 5 person group text with my boxing friends that stays active). Right now I'm lacking physical intimacy. I hook up with my roommates but not all the time, and it's not like they're down to cuddle the rest of the time. Nor should they be. And the physical stuff remains an issue with my female "partner." The lack of physical intimacy makes me feel completely lonely. Just as the abundance of physical intimacy makes me feel happy. But it probably isn't healthy to depend on that, particularly in a sexual way, as a means to not feel so alone. A couple of my friends have also been talking to me about how they believe I'm a sex addict. Including my roommate, who I have sex with. Now I kind of think he fits into a pattern my ex-girlfriend of 7 years fit into. That is to say, they identify me as a sex addict and then they use it to their advantage. My ex would regularly bargain with me, like if you call the pizza place I'll give you oral, or various other tasks. And I went for it every time, because obviously. My roommate does something similar though not to the same extreme (and that, I believe, is because his boyfriend wouldn't allow him to...I'm pretty sure our whole relationship is complicated. I do extra things for them and then we have sex, but truthfully it seems like it's mostly for the sake of convincing the boyfriend that this is why we have sex, when really my friend finds reasons/things to ask for so that we can have sex, but of course he won't admit it that way. He's not somebody who opens up about his feelings so maybe I'll never know the truth. But something feels like its under the surface there. But whatever). Anyway...I'm just venting now. Thanks for reading, if you made it this far. Haha.
Hey COS, Your thread above is, more than anything, an apt demonstration of vulnerability, I commend you for it, and I was moved by it. I did a little search and found this site which talks about The Effects of Parental Alcoholism on Children. It struck me how close the descriptions of the effects of that damage are mirrored in your description of your relationships. Here are a few excerpts: There is nothing as pernicious as feeling alone and yet surrounded by "friends" or being lonely while in a relationship. In truth, real friends can be counted using 5 or less fingers, they are rare and it takes years to gain them. I strongly feel, given the almost eerie parallels between what you have described and what this site reveals about growing up with an alcoholic parent, that you would very much benefit from some serious counseling. Check out this site, it could change your life's trajectory...
Thank you Greatwhale, seriously that response meant a lot. I'm going to read the web site you suggested soon as I'm done responding. I can relate so very much to that entire list. Heck I think most of the people who have been around here long enough reading my posts can probably check-off the things they see in me from that list. I'd say the only one on the list I don't identify with is being frightened of angry people. Maybe because I have some deep rooted anger issues myself? Maybe because of my boxing? An angry person doesn't scare me at this point in my life, since I genuinely feel like I could defend myself against them if I needed to. Heck, I'd say the hard part is knowing when to walk away and NOT throw the first punch. I do have some of the friendships you talk about. Two at the very least. My best friend who I've known for about 7 years now, who is like a genuine brother to me. I wish we lived in the same city, but we still see each other about 4 times a year. I can tell him anything and he will listen if nothing else, and vice versa. We've been together through breakups, new relationships, marriages, the birth of his daughter, family members passing away...the whole gauntlet. I love him in a completely non-sexual way and he may be only guy I've ever been this close to with there being no underlying sexual desire or alternate motive. The other person is a female I've been friends with since college, really close since about junior year, so we're talking a 13 year friendship now. She's another person I can open up to 100% and that road goes both ways. There's other people who with time may get on that list, and people whose friendships mean so much to me that losing them would be really sad, but those two I mentioned above are the two people who probably mean more to me than anybody else who I'm not directly related to in the world. Heck, they may be 3rd and 4th on the list period, after my aunts. It sucks in a way, because I don't want to be one of those people who blames my upbringing or my dad for the difficult stuff in my life right now. I've made my own decisions, mostly bad ones, and I want to own them. But most of those bad decisions have come from a place of seeking approval and trying to not be lonely. I'm not even sure I know what makes me happy anymore. Maybe I never did.
You're welcome! There is deep-seated shame that comes with all of this, pride and ego also play a part, how could I, me, this guy who should have his shit together actually be a victim from the past?? Let that go...tell the ego to be quiet for a while...just do what you have to do, you're still young, there is plenty of time to turn things around in a positive direction, and you need not do it alone! What you said about responding to angry people is actually on-point, some may want to avoid violence because they expect it, but some may also simply expect it and will respond to it (or initiate it in order to hit "first"). The problem is the expectation of violence... Cherish those two loving friendships, they are more precious than you can possibly imagine. Keep these friendships alive by more frequent contact, they are what is keeping you sane. As for what makes you happy...well most people don't have a clue as to what will make them happy (yay, you're not alone!), mostly because happiness is not something you can chase...it just happens...For more on this, you can refer to my responses in yesterday's thread. Take care of yourself, really, do it, get the help you need, you won't regret it!
There is a list of meetings on that site, so I emailed the person who runs one here in NYC (at the Center, of all places). Hopefully I hear back soon. I am a little hesitant as it is run like AA with the 12 steps, including some slant towards religion (which I am not at all into), but I'd like to at least attend a meeting and get a feel for what is going on. Thank you so much again.
Well, you need not go to that specific organization, check it out for sure, but look for referrals to qualified counselors, a one-on-one approach is probably best for you.
I made it that far. I don't think you are a sex addict. You do say you have lots of friends, but no intimacy. I think you brain tells you "friend" means intimacy, but everyday life does not. Here's my suggestion. The alcoholic parent thing comes out really clearly in what you write, complete with a big dose of people-pleasing. On the assumption that you don't have any substance abuse issue yourself, may I suggest you try a meeting or ten of an "alanon" group near you? These are meetings for non-substance-abuser family members of alcoholics (or drug users). Now, I know a lot of the things you may hear there may sound a bit odd, old-fashioned or even ditzy to you, but I wonder if this might give some insight into your relationships. Some things you hear will be surprisingly thought-provoking, I predict. Also, you could purchase a book or two about co-dependence (an unfortunate, mysterious term but in common use nevertheless). "Codependent No More" is one title. I know a lot about loneliness. It sucks. Making friends as a male is difficult a lot of the time. While my suggestions aren't a direct solution to that, they may help you understand some of the mistakes you may be making.
I spent awhile in AA, and they don't push the god stuff. If you're into it you can go that way, but not required. But the basic structure of support groups is very helpful.
I do not have any substance abuse issues. I rarely drink even among friends, and don't do drugs. I'll look into the alanon groups. It's NYC, there seems to be everything near me. Thank you!
That's good to hear! I'm still waiting to hear back from the group I emailed. I am starting individual therapy again next week though. I need it. I barely feel like myself anymore.
Terrific news, COS! Give yourself the time to evaluate your therapist, it will likely be a trial period for both of you. Very often it's a question of chemistry and if it isn't working, do feel free to change (probably a good idea to get that settled from the get-go, so there are no hard feelings, or any feeling of obligation on your part). That being said, do give him or her enough time to make a fair evaluation. Perhaps you could both agree on a review period after which you can discuss how it is going and decide whether or not to continue. I wish you the best of luck, you are doing a world of good for yourself!
