Dates who only want to hookup!?

Not sure on the guys aspect, but I also am limited to dating sites, and I also struggle to find people who want more than a hook up. I've never hooked up and as soon as they put it out there I stop talking to them. I've even added "no hook ups or 3rds" to my profile. (Apparently I'm prime picking for a 3rd, I've gotten as many as 3 offers a day for that.) It's so obnoxious. I wish there were sites for people who want actual relationships.

 

Yep same issue here, don't even know where to start looking around here, other then the bot filled websites, and there's slim pickings even on the few I've checked out.

 

I don't think it's at all uncommon for casual hookups among gay men to end up as longtime friendships or even relationships. I'm currently in a relationship of two years' standing with a man I bedded within an hour of our meeting at a nude beach. Many of my friends are guys I met "cruising" or at the beach. I think sometimes it's good to get the sex thing out of the way first, so you can relax and get to know a guy better, instead of constantly wondering how you're going to get in his pants.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I'm quite a private person and not looking for something casual, but have struggled online to find someone looking for the same. It's difficult because I'm not out to anyone it's difficult to meet someone other than online. Guess it's just a case of keeping on trying - but you definitely aren't the only one having trouble with this!

 

So this might be taking the conversation to another level, but I have been giving this question quite some thought over the past few years as I familiarized myself with the gay community after coming out later in life, and dealt with my own issues.

Like many of you, I was perplexed as to why casual sex played such a big role within the gay community. Now, as some of you may recall, I certainly used casual sex as a way to manage my own emotional confusion after I accepted myself and while I remained on my journey to fully figure out whom I was (which will continue indefinitely no doubt). But while I embraced it, I was surprised that so many others did the same. I had initially assumed so many within the LGBT community whom had previously come out before me had accepted themselves with confidence and high self esteem. I thought by waiting until later in life to come out, I was in the minority to deal with low self esteem, low confidence, internalized homophobia and shame. My rationale was that if others had already accepted themselves, they had done so not having to deal with such emotional baggage.

Well, what I have come to realize is that the vast majority have had to deal with quite a lot of emotional baggage. And for a lot of people, such baggage has impeded their ability to have close connections, trust and deep intimate relationships. Instead, many have had failed relationships, hurt and pain; and those same people need to continue to work through their emotional baggage to the extent they have not given up on doing so.

Don't get me wrong, I have also met many well adjusted individuals whom either never had such emotional baggage or whom have successfully dealt with their demons; but my perception is they have been in the minority.

Well, using my own experience, where casual sex was a way to achieve validation when my shame was high and myself esteem and confidence were low, I see many others doing the same, having given up or unable to find a meaningful connection with someone. Why have they given up? Well, for many, they seem not to have yet dealt with their own demons. And if you have not done that, how can you have a productive relationship with others?

Before people can fully embrace others in their lives, make themselves vulnerable with others, open up emotionally with others, I believe one needs to first achieve internal peace with themselves. For many, that has simply not happened. And as a result, dating apps are filled with those seeking quick forms of connection that satisfy a basic human social need, but causing them to remain emotionally unfulfilled except for a fleeting moment of time. Maybe the validation and emotional connection through a quick shag brings some degree of satisfaction, but for the most part it simply does not allow for the nurturing of true emotional connections unless such individual is at a mental place which allows for such connection to occur.

All that said, I have met many people whom also have found the love of their lives through dating app and initial hook ups. I do believe it can happen and for those whom are at peace with themselves and are willing to open themselves up, it can be a way to find that special someone. So do not take what I am suggesting as an excuse not to explore the social app scene, just recognize what may be driving many whom use it; and be thoughtful about it accordingly.

 

What you say makes a lot of sense. I'm having a lot of problems with actually being able to take any kind of step even though I think I have accepted I'm gay (I basically freeze when there is any prospect of meeting someone whatever the reason for it, even as a friend, or having anyone know what I am). I can completely understand why people would seek that kind of more restricted, but probably very important, emotional connection.

 

Being a single guy, I have a policy of meeting in a public place first, for coffee or a drink, to see if there's chemistry. Only around 1/4 of men I meet online are willing to do this - the vast majority want to hookup.

Meeting a guy in a public place gives u a chance to see him, feel his energy, & sense if there's a good connection. The odds of a good match are 1 in 7 or 8. Of course occasionally my lower head gets the best of me & I end up in a hookup.

If there's compatibility, & u end up having a few dates & sex …the next horizon is the potential of close romantic intimacy. Being bi, I find that easier w a woman - women are made for that. They naturally want a deeper relationship if they've given themselves to u sexually. Men are a lot different. For most men, sex means very little after they've gotten their rocks off. So I'm heading back to women, because it's an intimate relationship they long for, & not just a hookup.

 

ok, so thinking about this further, In addition to what I states previously, I also think casual sex is used simply to satisfy boredom while also limiting the need for commitment. If people live alone, are single, and are looking for a quick escape and connection, hooking up does that. It also allows someone to interact while not needing to commit themselves to others; and there are a lot of well adjusted independently minded people whom rather avoid commitment altogether. Apps enable a channel for those needs to be fulfilled.

 

OTH … u speak the truth - without acknowledging the shadow in the hookup lifestyle. Of course it's dangerous to make any kind of critical comment about anything gay, bec you're immediately accused of being a homophobe.

Regardless, the shadow you allude to is:
- casual sex to satisfy boredome
- limits & avoids commitment
- quick escape

This is a justification or defense for hookups. The undeniable truth about hookups is:
- they're physically risky, it's easy to get an std
- they're emotionally unhealthy. You're engaging in the most intimate act, without the benefit of knowing or liking who the person is
- u don't have to open you your heart & be vulnerable, which is the basis of true to intimacy
- they often leave u lonelier than u were before
- you've sold your soul for a quick release

Hookups suck.

 

I actually avoid making any moral judgements towards others whom engage in casual sex. I do believe it is possible to bifurcate casual sex from real intimacy; and so long as the participants are well adjusted and of sound mind, then to each their own (including my own for that matter). I believe the moral compass argument is a fabrication of social standards, and particularly heteronormative standards, and those are arguments I simply do not buy into.

In terms of your specific points:

- get in a car and your at risk of physical harm in an accident; yet there are ways to minimize the risks of getting into an accident by being safe and alert. The same goes for casual sex. Of course there are risks of an STI, but there are ways to mitigate those risks. STIs are essentially "risks that come with doing business". Be safe and take precautions, and you can minimize those risks. But just because there are STIs does not mean everyone should be celibate.

-casual sex and hooks may be emotionally unhealthy for a segment of those that engage in it. At the same time, as I previously stated, if a participant is emotionally mature, and of sound mind, then I would argue that casual sex is not necessarily emotionally unhealthy. Those that are seeking casual sex for self validation, based on low self esteem and confidence, might be further hurt by casual sex/hookups; so in this regard I can understand the concern.

-Sometimes a physical release is all that is needed, and if someone can do so without opening their heart and making themselves vulnerable, then so be it. Those that engage in casual sex may not be doing it to seek true intimacy. And if they are doing so understanding this, that is their prerogative. Now, I would argue that all hook ups and casual sex actually do have some form of emotional connection; whether intended or not. And those that suggest there is not emotional connection, are actually kidding themselves.

-as I stated previously, some people are truly independent minded, and may be seeking casual sex to satisfy their human instincts for sex, but without the need for commitment. If a person is not emotionally well adjusted, then I can see your point that it might cause further un-fulfillment. But again, I do not believe this is universally relevant to everyone.

-Selling ones soul goes back to my comment that is a construct of society and heteronormative standards. My partner and I were actually having this debate over the weekend. In essence, how does one define their own moral compass. I think there is a lot of pressure by society to indoctrinate individuals into a moral compass that might be artificial. It is up to each of us to establish what such standards should be. Whom am I to judge someone?

 

OTH, thank you for your comments. I can tell you've thought these things out.

Your main defense of hookups, imj, is that criticism is a moralistic construct of society, and hetero-normative. That's certainly a valid argument. Your argument ignores and talks over the shadow aspects I listed - like a tit for tat argument.

The shadow can be ignored but there is a price to pay, in the disassociation from deeper soulful aspects of ourselves. Obviously, many do it, often with the numbing effects of drugs or alcohol.

However, there is still the possibility of a truly loving intimate relationship with another guy. But frequent hookups make it less and less likely.

 

I have met a lot of people on my journey, and many of them were "part of the scene" and very much into the casual sex and hookup culture in their more formative years through their late 30's. Today, many of them have long standing partners, some are married and some are about to get married. These are the guys that I am close with and consider to be part of my social circle.

Did they lead promiscuous lives previously? They certainly did. Have they settled down and found happiness? Yes they seem to have done just that.

From what you are arguing, these couples are the exception and not the rule. And that might very well be the case. But in their cases, as my friends, I have found them to be emotionally mature, content and balanced individuals.

I can not comment on the drug and alcohol culture that exists, and it certainly is part of the overall hook up culture; but I do not have experience sufficient to address it. I am dishearten by what I see and read about; and for those involved in heavy drug and chemical use, I just hope they somehow find inner peace.

It saddens me to see the judgement you seem to have for others whom partake in hook ups while finding their own path towards self acceptance and happiness. Because that is, for the most part, how I see it. Each of us are on our own journey. And hook up sex is part of that journey. How it is used is relevant to each individual. And it should not be shamed or frowned upon so long as people are being mature and responsible.

I agree it is not for everyone and, hence, each person needs to decide for themselves how it should or should not fit into their life. But I will reserve judgement on those whom include casual sex and hook ups in their life.

 

I would also add that part of being gay may be the willingness to deeply connect with people beyond socially imposed barriers, such as class, race, etc... In heteronormative society, at the very extreme, who you marry depends on what you do, how much you have, where you are from, etc... How you get along under the sheets comes last on a typical princess tale, and that is what condemns people to unhapiness, when you discover that you can't stand the smell of the cock of the beautiful prince you just married.
On the other extreme, casual sex is just that, there is no barriers, no idealizing your partner, just the physical body and the physical sensations, tastes, smells, shapes. Its living in the moment, nothing else matters.
However, as oth said, it does not mean it can not lead to a fulfilling LT relationship, but starting with how the bodies get along with each other rather than creating attachment to an ideal you constructed in your head is better and less likely to generate disappointment.

 

Unfortunately that's the world we live in now. (or maybe it's always been like that, but the internet has made it easier and more visible)

You do find the occasional person out there with "traditional values" though.

As others have said, meet in public. Most 'hookup only' guys consider that a waste of time.

When you meet up, maybe try to do something that you or him enjoy e.g. art gallery, museum, ice cream, tennis, ten pin bowling, the beach, pokemon hunting
This will often allow for relaxed conversation that is deeper than "what are you into".

Don't chat online for too long.
Yes, make sure that he's decent, genuine and that he is who he says he is first. But there's a certain point in online chatting where they stop being a potential date and start becoming an electronic pen friend. It's different for everyone, but you can feel it if you pay attention.

Don't give up!
In the end, the more you put yourself out there, the more chance you'll have of meeting someone lovely.
Meet up with guys, and if you don't want to have sex with them on the first date, then DON'T.
If they don't talk to you after you withhold sex, then it's the same outcome really (except you miss out on some sex).
Just be safe and stick to your own morals, convictions and values.

Peace

 

These threads are always interesting to me because it really doesn't seem to reflect my experience or really that of my friends. So I'm always left wondering what is the difference--what's going on here that isn't going on in my real life. If anything if I would have made a thread about what's wrong with first dates it would have been that everyone was out there looking for a relationship before they really even got to know each other. I continually found myself thinking "wow, I thought we were going to the movies, why is this guy picking out china?". My friends who are dating currently have expressed something similar.

So I'm kind of left with this feeling of what's the disconnect? And I think a lot of it is the apps. I've never used them. I have friends who do, but more sort of as a lark--or to order up sex. I'm sorry but if you order up a date the way you order Thai food, you're not dating you're "dating"--and that involves sex, it just does..

And frankly I think part of the problem--and given the audience here I hesitate to go there--is that the apps allow closeted people to "date" without endangering their closeted status. On the one hand that's great, but on the other, well... Let me just say that while I and most of my friends would consider sleeping with someone who was closeted we would never actually date someone who was closeted. I just... well, if you're going to worry about whether people think we're together in a restaurant, if you're worried about running into someone you know when we go to the movies, if you're going to lie about me to your family, if you're conflicted about the whole notion of dating me at all, well, I'm sorry, ain't nobody got time for that. And frankly neither do closeted guys--if that experience would be irritating to me it's terrifying to a lot of closeted guys. On the other hand if what we are going to do is watch a video and have a quick tumble, well, none of that really comes into play, does it?

As far as the whole "people who have casual sex are never going to end up in serious relationships" thing. Again, that's not my experience. I know gay guys who would agree with that notion--there are plenty of guys out there who not only don't have casual sex but actively look down on guys who do. They're out there--tons of them. I also know a LOT of gay guys in wonderful healthy long term relationships. In my experience there's absolutely no intersection between those groups--I don't know why, I have some theories that I will keep to myself. The kind of couples that OTH describe are in my experience not the exception but the norm.

On a not entirely unrelated side note I'm married to a wonderful man. We've been together for eighteen years. We are faithful to each other and we love each other more with each passing day. And we slept we each other on the night we met. I don't think either of us would have described ourselves as promiscuous but I'm pretty sure most people on this site would have described both of us that way. Anyway I guess it worked out alright...

 

I am laughing reading this! I have had very similar experiences here!!!

 

As usual, OGS hits the nail squarely on the head.

 

As the other poster observed, this is insightful and true.

But going a little further. I have noticed that the guy who is part of the pair but not in the closet might as well be, too. At least most of the time. Since these hookups are usually one-off, the fully "out" guy down the street doesn't want to notice me (use once and throw away LOL), as hookup culture dictates that you not "pick out china" (i.e., ever talk to the person again). So, for the purposes of the meeting, often both guys are "in the closet," from an operational perspective." The rules of the game appear to hold, that after a hookup you're not allowed to say acknowledge the other person in any way, since it wouldn't be a "hookup" anymore. :lol:

 

This certainly is a dynamic that occurs, and you articulated it really well. My experience is more akin to a roulette wheel. You spin the wheel and really have no idea what you will ultimately experience with the other individual. And there are infinite experiences that can play out. Land on one, and you get what you just articulate; yet another, and 20 years later you may still be with that same person. In between, you might actually meet people that become lifelong friends.

Now, one can argue that if you use a system to how you play (and are thoughtful about whom you decide to get together with), your odds of experiencing something other than a one off like you described is viable. However, if you simply put your chips down indiscriminately, who knows where the ball lands and what happens.

If people have faceless profiles, are not willing to engage personally, are only communicating their desire for a quick shag (which I agree fits a significant portion of what's out there), then it's fair to expect the result you articulated.

Be thoughtful, read profiles, engage with people you text to learn a bit about them, and the more educated you are, the more selective you are, the better your prospects of getting the desired result; whatever that result may be whether it be a one-off, a regular friend with benefits, a non sexual friend or even a long term relationship.

But gain, it is a bit like playing roulette!