I've still got so much shame...why?

I've only just come out, so I'm still in the mode of freeing myself. I don't know how I will feel later on, so I don't really have any good advice or insight for you. I am interested in how this goes for you though because I feel like I'm right behind you going through much of the same things. I will be divorcing my wife soon, and right now we're still living together.

 

Hi baristajedibaristajedi, i am way behind you in coming out and as you now from reading my posts I am not good at it

Can you pinpoint what you exactly feel shameful about ? Or is it just a dull general feeling? Would it help to write it out on a pad and paper I feel shameful about this, this and this?

sometimes problems are like math we can't just do it our head

 

Speaking as an expert in the "self-shaming" business ;-) ... I've gone/am going through these feelings as a husband and father who is dating another man for the last few months. I labeled myself with shame, but more appropriately it's guilt. Shame means you ARE bad. Guilt means you have done something bad. Even guilt may or may not apply depending on the situation, but there is certainly no shame in what you have done. You can absolve yourself of guilt if need be. We can continue to be great moms and dads, we can have compassion and empathy for our spouses, and we can be open and honest with our new partners about what we are going through with our families- and just how important they are to us as we move forward.

What you are doing is extremely difficult, but don't make it impossible to deal with by calling it shame. You are not a bad person because of this.

It really helped me to talk to a professional who deals with shame. I was so bad I became crippled by the label.

Good luck with finding the answers to a healthy and happy life!

-A

 

Hey Barista Jedi. The shame sucks, hey? For me, the only time it seems to show up at all is when I'm forcing myself into a closet I no longer want to be in. Part of me realizes feelings of shame are all about *other* people, when I'm making assumptions about how they'd react to me being queer. If I assume they would think that it's shameful, I react emotionally. The thing is, I know who I am. I've learned that I'm not made wrong. When I'm true to myself, I feel no shame. So, I'm doing my best to just be myself. You're in a tough spot, because your authentic self longs for a life that looks differently than it does right now. There's no shame in that, though. You're doing the very BEST you can.

 

Shame is a fundamental emption that runs deep Baristajedi. It takes a lot of work to recognizes it, understand it, and learn to live with it. I am not sure shame ever goes away 100%, but I am comfortable that you can learn to manage it to the point where it is significantly diminished.

Given where you are on your journey, still very much in the early stages, with so much you are managing in your life at the moment, do not be surprised that you are still working through significant parts of shame.

Have patience on this one. Take your time to continue to understand yourself better. As you progress, and build confidence and self esteem, you will have the strength to manage your shame.

Your in the middle of the storm a the moment. You are handling it AMAZINGLY well!!!! Its great your at the point of recognizing your shame. Thats a significant part of the battle. Over time, I am confident you will conquer it as best as anyone can!

 

BJ...well, I don't really live openly gay. And you know, I don't want to...I just want to live openly and fully. Again, the more I stalk over to the labels side, the more it seems to complicate things for me. I am contemplating moving to another city, but that would be a big promotion, maybe farfetched. Who knows? I always said I would stay here for my daughter, but she is truly angry and hostile about it all. So, if she's going to be angry and hostile, well, we can do that anywhere, right? Maybe the fear and stigma that grips her about her...gasp.....gay mother will go away.

But, I digress. You do not have to be an open book to everyone, nor do you have to prove your authenticity, not even to yourself. Live your life. If you happen to be gay, so be it. I think the great thing about people you already know is that they can see for the most part that you are still the same person. I know I shocked a lot of people, but then, I think they saw that aside from having a girlfriend, I was pretty much the same person.

Do not beat yourself up, do not have shame about who you are. I am also a single mom, divorced, and I'd never kissed a girl until I was 46 years old. Even my girlfriend seems amazed. I had to have buried a lot of stuff, suppressed, whatever. I am working to understand me, but I think it's an awesome thing to do. Learning about myself totally explains why I never quite could have that relationship that others I knew seemed to have.

 

I think what I see here is something I do as well, compartmentalization. different boxes, mom, wife, gay, lover(GF), etc. and it can get uncomfortable when we open more than one box at a time. but it gets easier the more you do it and maybe blend the contents of the boxes like introducing your GF to your daughter (when your ready of course) and the other thing I see is the programing that society does to us and we do to ourselves like hetro good, non hetro less than good (changing but we are a product of our pasts to some degree) marriage and parenthood main goals. etc. we need to de-program ourselves to be our real, authentic selves and it's an ongoing journey, it took us decades to get where we are and it wont change quickly. But, you're doing just fine hun (*hug*)

---------- Post added 7th Sep 2016 at 11:14 AM ----------

one other thing I'd like to add is the difference between guilt and shame. guilt is internal, like when we feel we have caused harm to someone, that's normal and a good thing as it aids our moral compass. Shame is external, it's kind of like guilt but it's imposed by others, like society, religion, family to force us to conform to their moral compass or set of rules etc.

personally I reject shame as much as I can, and work through any guilt I have and try to make amends, or at least peace with myself and my actions.

 

Hi barista! That is awesome you are dating a woman - really happy for you!

Your post totally resonates with me. I think I managed to stay in a kind of semi-denial for years by compartmentalising my same sex attraction as something 'optional' that I could take or leave. However it's obviously an integral part of who I am, and is part of my identity as a whole. It's always there.

I feel like my life now is still quite compartmentalised (although I know this must happen to everyone to some degree?), some people know I'm Bi and some don't. Some family know, some friends and some at work but I suppose I might act differently depending on who I'm with. I'm also a mother which is another significant part of my identity now. I would also like to be able to show the whole me to others. I feel at least to some people, I feel in a way like I'm still pretending to be someone I'm not.

As for shame, I am continuously working on that. As OTH said I think it's an ongoing battle that maybe just diminishes rather than disappears. I am trying to either say or do something everyday that scares me. Even if it's just a little thing. I always feel good after I do it, it feels kind of empowering.

 

Oh my god baristajedi, just had to reply to this... Haven't been on EC in a long time and my jaw DROPPED (in a totally good and happy way) when I saw that you now identify fully and proudly as gay! I am SO HAPPY for you that you've found this authentic place and truth within yourself, I remember your frustration and confusion before. I see myself in you, because it took me so long to realize, too, how gay I am, and to accept it in all the numerous ways that it must be done.

Think of it as muscle memory. As a habit that you want to quit - such as smoking maybe or an unhealthy food? Your body will continue to crave the old way - it's what it knows. In this case, our "straight habit" have kept us safe. From judgment from others, from judgment from ourselves, from fear and pain: and so our straight life served a purpose.

Now we are in the place where we build good, strong, new, healthy habits. Decisions made with our hearts. Decisions made with courage. Yes, because courage is what we need. That's the difference from before. This is COURAGEOUS and we muster all our strength and focus to act from a place of truth and love. Just keep loving yourself for all that you are and all that you do. That's my best advice.

Again: so happy for you!! ride:

 

Hmm, I kinda understand. I think there are some people who keep many personas depends on who they are interacting with or based on different environments. Like how we present ourselves in workplace may be different from when we are at home.
Each of these personas doesn't always match each other and sort of compartmented from each other. Sometimes, we have to become these two different personas at the same time and place. For example, to be Office Me or Home Me in a family outing sponsored by my company. We are 'forced' to break that compartment and reconcile them.
Possibly, when one persona is greatly different from the other, it makes us start questioning who we really are. It can be more about our motivations in creating these different personas. I speak from my own experience.

Baristajedi, you are not alone (&&&)
Coming to term with true self is probably a lifelong process. I always thought when I am older, I will figure most of things out.
Well, here I am, older and still trying to figure most things out.

 

Shame is the fruit of a tree called fear. Ask yourself "what am I afraid of". When we up root our fears and find inner peace, love springs forth, and shame withers away. Facing our fears is how we evolve as individuals.

 

I've been getting slowly away from thinking like that myself. If I think it's something optional I don't have to act on, rather than part of who I am and my identity as a whole, how can I expect my family to not think like that when I finally tell them?

 

I have only recently stopped thinking like that. I have identified as Bi since I was 18 but thought of it as kind of optional and compartmentalised it for years. I thought I had accepted my sexuality but I really hadn't. I think it would be so much easier being 18 now.

Anyway, I'm queer and that is part of who I am and I want to fully embrace that identity

 

I have a strange relationship with shame these days. On the inside, I have none. I'm just gay and that's it. Who even cares? Are there people stupid enough to think it's something I went out and chose to be? Or something I can just magically change? It's just the way it is and everyone should get over it!

But that's private and inside my own space....

When I think about other people knowing who I am for real, especially my family, I'm totally overwhelmed with shame. It's crippling to a point where I have doubts I'll ever tell my nearest family members. I just do not want them to know as I think the second they do, if the reaction is not what I absolutely NEED, I will self-destruct and take on every negative emotion available. If I'm treated badly, I'll treat myself badly. If I'm treated as if I should be ashamed, I'll be more ashamed than you can imagine.

Many people say that coming out is hard and that it will take some months or even years for people to adjust; you just "gotta hang in there"... I do not think I have that ability and wonder if I could even survive it.

 

Perhaps it would be helpful to stop compartmentalizing yourself and think of yourself as a gay/lesbian mom (who came out later in life)?

As for the shame, I had some residual shame until I reached a tipping point where I saw myself as a gay dad and became increasingly comfortable with the idea that I was no longer part of the heteronormative lifestyle. A good amount of the internalized homophobia and shame comes from the heteronormative mindset, by disassociating yourself from it you free yourself from many of its judgments.

I achieved this by adding LGBT activities to my social calendar until I hit critical mass and went

I believe this thread might be helpful and worth reviewing - http://emptyclosets.com/forum/lgbt-later-life/208943-buidling-life-gay-dad.html

 

Thanks Sienna. That's helpful to me as a newly out gay dad.