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Still confused

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by intro55, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. intro55

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    Hi, so I have been on here a few times on and off, I seem to be drawn back especially when I am struggling with my sexuality. I have been reading several posts where people are consfused between sexual fantasy or desire and romantic attractions. This remains my biggest barrier to acceptance I think.
    For nearly 10 years now my sexual fantasies and desires have been firmly towards guys. I never really fantasize or want straight sex anymore. And as I accept my gay fantasies my desire to explore gay sex increases, so now I visit chat sites or watch gay porn. I am married so its not good and I feel awful for doing it!
    In my 20s and early 30s I would say I didn't allow myself to fantasize about guys, given how much it turned me on and the obvious implications. But I started to realise that straight sex just didn;t do it for me. In my teens I can remember have gay fantasies from when I became sexually aware.
    However, I struggle with the romantic side, i still see attractive women and think 'wow' shes attractive and I could see my self romantically involved but not really interested sexually. When I see an attractive guy its all the opposite.
    I have seen terms about hetro or bi romantic but I struggle with that and wonder whether my issue is just simply and inability to accept the obvious!! Guess am just looking for some inspiration to help me try and move on a little...Thanks!
     
  2. intro55

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    p.s. a few years ago I would have said I was bi and that might help the confusion but having no real interest in straight sex for so long I've struggle to accept that. In Kinsey terms I'd say I was between 4 and 5 and that would really be more from having had previous straight relationships and not my current situation.
     
  3. CameronBayArea

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    As most of us here are fully aware, sexual attractions are not a choice. Although no definitive proof has been discovered yet, most scientists believe that sexuality is hard-wired at or before birth. This means that gender-based sexual attractions can be submerged, but never changed.

    Love is different. People - both men and women - fall in and out of love all the time. Most of us love our parents, siblings and children with what seems like innate ferocity, yet many others don't feel any bond with their closest relatives. Some straight men have no problem talking about loving their closest male friends - just not in a gay way, of course.

    Really, when you think about it, love has many derivations, yet none of them are fixed in a biological way, especially across a broad spectrum of people, cultures and situations. As I've come to understand that fact, I've realized that love is a learned behavior.

    Actually, I should walk that back a bit. Biologically, we all may NEED love, to receive and give it... but, the particulars of how that happens, and what or who satisfies us, is definitely variable, and is almost certainly heavily influenced by rules and limitations that we are taught.

    Each of us has the natural capacity to love any another person, regardless of their gender. The limitations arise as we mature and form opinions based on personal experiences and outside influences. Those learned "rules" can be very compelling, but they are not written into our DNA the way sexual attractions and eye color are.

    This means that, if you, or anyone else, believes they *CAN* fall in love with someone who is not their preferred sexual gender, then they will be open to individuals and circumstances where that can happen. And it might. This is what enables gay people to fall in love with straight people. Similarly, if they don't believe they can feel love in that way, then they will avoid and block opportunities for it to happen - which is why only small numbers of straight men will ever confess to loving another straight man.

    Love is a choice. Sexuality is not.

    So...

    When someone sees themselves as sexually attracted to one gender and romantically attracted to the other, logically speaking there are only two paths to fulfillment. Either: compartmentalize love and sex by limiting the interactions to different genders, OR, follow your sexual attractions and work to overcome the learned limitations that have kept you from being open to romantic love as it naturally develops.
     
  4. intro55

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    Hi, thanks so much for your response, its really resonated with me. In fact I think I started to understand things a bit better yesterday just from writing them down. Clearly my confusion is not around sexual orientation, that is towards guys and has been for many years and my sexual desires now reflect my fantasies, rather than trying to deny them. So I am predominately homosexual.
    The issue for me is when I think about love. I always believe and still do that there is that one true love, someone who you just click with, kind of love at first site (I know its a bit naf and naive for someone in their mid 40s but its just the way I am). The things is that person for me has always been a women in my mind. Even as a teenager I used to dream about meeting a beautiful women and falling head over heals! If I try to think about the same thing but with a guy, it terrifies me! I mean I feel kind of sick. I am guessing I have a lot of internalized homophobia that is stopping me even considering the idea of a relationship with a guy! As you say I need to work to overcome my learned limitations if I am to move on in this way. Staying as I am with sex and love separated is miserable and i feel I have to sneak around and can't be myself.
     
  5. nerdbrain

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    Cameron,

    The way you summarized this idea really hit the nail on the head for me.

    I've been doing option A for most of my life -- total compartmentalization. It was never a deliberate decision, just a protective solution for dealing with my feelings.

    But it's fundamentally unstable, as I've come to realize. Today, I have a powerful emotional longing for my ex-wife, that fills me with a sense of loss and heartbreak. I miss her terribly, but I don't fantasize about fucking her -- just holding her close.

    At the same time I have powerful sexual fantasies about getting penetrated, which I satisfy with toys and sometimes porn. But I can't seem to bring them to life with another man, probably because I instantly, automatically shut my sexuality down when even the slightest hint of male/male intimacy approaches.

    These two forces are basically tearing me apart inside. I want nothing more than to remove the compartmentalization and become whole.

    But I just have no clue how to do it. How do I "overcome the learned limitations" that make it impossible for me to experience even casual intimacy with a guy?
     
  6. Weston

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    I think in order to love someone else, you first have to love yourself. Too many gay guys, burdened by internalized homophobia, simply can't imagine how anyone else could love them, given that they see themselves as inherently flawed. If someone does show interest, that person is immediately disqualified as lacking in judgment. We are our own worst critics, and we need to stop it! Everyone is flawed in some way — it's what makes us human. Work on loving yourself, and if necessary, forgiving yourself, and you will find the ability to love and forgive others and accept that they can love and forgive you.
     
  7. Landgirl

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    Well said, Weston.
     
  8. LostInDaydreams

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    I agree. Great post. I've never really looked at it that way before. Thanks! :slight_smile:
     
  9. CameronBayArea

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    If you think about it, we are trained to value and admire male+female romance beginning at very early ages - before we can read, before we can add. The images, ideas and storylines are everywhere, not just in movies and TV programs, but in commercials and on the radio. Not just in children's books, but on billboards and in cartoons.

    Straight sex and romance are endless and everywhere, always.

    Given the breadth, depth and relentlessness of this training, is it any wonder that so many not-straight people focus on making straight romance work? Really, the lessons are so deeply ingrained in us, that, of course, true happiness requires loving the opposite sex.

    Well, the problem is...even a lifetime of every-other-minute romantic and sexual training cannot overwrite a person's biological coding. Yes, a gay man can genuinely fall madly in love with a straight woman, and a lesbian woman can genuinely fall madly in love with a straight man, however that love is not anchored by authentic desire. And that's a fundamental problem - often overlooked or ignored.

    I, like so many not-straight men, genuinely like women. I appreciate their femaleness both in dispostion and appearance. Jacklyn Smith was long a favorite of mine - a classy beauty. Halle Berry is 50 and stunning. I married a woman because I liked her, including her looks. "My sexuality does not define me," I thought. "I am much more than a cliche of lust."

    I've since learned, quite painfully, that lust is a must. Liking everything about someone is not enough. Beauty (or handsomeness) is not enough. Admiration is not enough. Even sexiness is not enough.

    I think this is especially true in relationships where the woman is straight and the man isn't. Women's sexuality isn't so much visual as it is emotional. They don't value a hot man nearly as much as a man who makes them feel hot. Feeling genuinely desired is essential. When the desire isn't there, or fades, the sexual energy holding the couple together fades. Then isolation, depression and recrimination set in, essentially forcing one or both partners to turn to others (or porn or substances) for fulfillment. Even when the overall relationship stays "good" there's an emptiness that quietly engulfs both partners. A silent sadness.

    So...for myself at least, it's one thing to think Halle Berry is hot (I must be bisexual, right?), but it's quite another to imagine having the straight sexual energy to make her, or any other woman, feel hot day after day, year after year. I can do that easily for a man, but not so much for a woman.

    How bi am I?

    To similar men I plead - don't trust your short-term attractions! Before getting into a potentially serious relationship, with anyone, ask yourself if you have the sexual energy to genuinely desire that person every single day for the rest of your life. If you have doubts, don't let the relationship get serious. And also, don't confuse a strong emotional connection with sexual energy. Sexual energy is raw, animalistic desire. If you don't have it, neither one of you can be happy and fulfilled in the long-run. Save yourself the pain and move on to someone who ignites passion deep inside you.
     
  10. dublinz

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    Perhaps it's about what you want out of life... As much as the world says it's about love, I've come to learn of late, that it really is a very private, personal knowledge of what fulfills each of us. Some of our inner thoughts might not be the popular choice but I say acknowledge them, be aware and live life based on what fulfills you the most.
     
  11. intro55

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    Thanks so much for your comments... my confusion makes real sense to me now, it's frightening but it fits me so well and everything I have struggled with over the years. Not sure i am closer to coming out but I at least I am closer to accepting my sexual orientation without continually trying to deny it. Thanks!!
     
  12. intro55

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    Hi, just wanted to say this is so true but how do you start... As well as my issues arounf being gay, I also have other struggles. I was sent away to boarding school at 12, hated it and was sexually abused by an older male at 15. I have struggled with anxiety, panic attacks, depression, OCD and possible bi-polar since my 20s. I have managed despite this to lead a relatively "normal" life (although for the last couple of years I've needed meds). Very occasionally I tell myself I have been unlucky and that my issues aren't really my fault, its the hand I've been dealt. But for the vast majority of the time I just think I'm bad, failed individual who is deeply ashamed of his sexuality and health issues. How do you love yourself when you have so little love for yourself to start with??
     
  13. nerdbrain

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    So, so true.

    Cameron, may I ask how you deal with this in your life? Do you date only men, or women as well?
     
  14. CameOutSwinging

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    I just want to say reading this whole thread has been really fascinating and resonating with a lot of what is on my mind right now. Thank you guys.
     
  15. I'm gay

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    Hey intro55,

    I've just posted this in another thread, but I think it's relevant here as well.

    I knew I was attracted to guys since I was young, but I repressed those feelings to be "normal," or what I thought was normal at the time. I've used gay porn for as long as the internet has been around, and never saw guys in a "romantic" way, only sexually.

    My own coming out story is unique, as is everyone else's, and you can read it if you want by going to my post history. However, it wasn't until after I came out of the closet and began to allow myself to really look at guys, and begin thinking about them in more ways than purely sexual, that things began to change for me. I started noticing guys in a different way.

    The difference, though, wasn't just the coming out. It was the "allowing" myself to think about guys and look at guys. Personally, I've always associated certain actions as more "romantic" than sexual, such as kissing, cuddling, massage, etc. Now when I look at guys, and I see one that I think is really cute or beautiful to me, I imagine kissing him, and cuddling with him. The more I did this, the more of a feeling of excitement (and nervousness) would build inside me, completely separate from sexual turn-on.

    I think the coming out part for me helped to rid myself of the last vestiges of internal shame and negative thinking about being gay. This in turn gave me the courage to really look at guys as more than just my sexual fantasy tools for masturbation.

    If you are still repressing your gay feelings, it's no wonder that you don't view guys in a romantic light. That doesn't mean you are incapable of a romantic interest, it's just that you may be still repressing it. I would work on where those feelings are being blocked or ignored, and work on removing those barriers.

    Take care. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:
     
  16. Weston

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    I'm not sure you can start to love yourself until you actually start the process of coming out.
     
  17. hrcbho1

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    Hey, I'm not sure how much inspiration I can give, but I'm a married guy in my early 30s who can relate to what you are going through. Like you, I find many women attractive and think that they are hot, but then I also sometimes find guys attractive, and most of my fantasizes and sexual thoughts are about being with a guy. For me, I enjoy being with a woman, being close to her, holding her, doing some sexual things, but often I find straight sex unfulfilling and am often thinking about guys during sex. I personally have come to identify as bi, mainly because I think attraction is more than just sex and that there are different forms of sex that can be enjoyed. I often find that I simply enjoy the company of women more than men and am able to be more romantic towards women.

    I would say that your identity isn't necessarily bi though, it all depends on what you think attraction entails and the importance that sex has in your ability to be attracted and involved with someone...and I think it's ok to not have all the answers yet, and it's healthy that you are trying to figure out exactly what your true identity is. Just remember that it's a bit unique for everyone! I've often wondered if I could be romantically involved with a guy and be satisfied both sexually and romantically, and it's hard to figure that out when you are in a relationship with someone else. Just a personal story, I was on a work trip this summer and there was a gay guy who I befriended on the trip...nothing happened between us, but he was definitely flirtatious and had a great personality that I really liked. I found myself not only being attracted to him, but also just really enjoying his company in a way that I usually do with women. So, I think there are probably guys out there that could fulfill that for you, it's just a matter of meeting the right person and exploring, but that is difficult when you are married. Being married, I hadn't been able to experience that before, but just kind of lucked out that we were both on the same work trip and had to hang out for a week. Anyway, I hope you know that you are not alone in how you are feeling!
     
  18. findingjoy

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    I can totally relate to this.
    I look at women all the time and get the same feelings but the sexual fantasies are about guys.

    I don't think I am bi though because everything I imagine about being with a woman just seems like a substitute, a pair of shoes that doesn't quite fit. When I imagine a gay life without my fears and barriers of acceptance, I feel 100 times more alive.

    Yep and once I came here and said I was gay it was like a damn bursting open. When I actually let myself look at some pictures of cute guys I just started to melt.