Changing my mind

i still have fears but a few months ago i never would have imagined myself thinking "being gay is beautiful' 'I love being gay'. One thing that really helped was a suggestion by someone 'try being gay to yourself for day' .

Congratulations. What are your next steps?

---------- Post added 8th Nov 2016 at 09:38 PM ----------

Maybe a good place to start is post or blog why it's a win!

 

Nerdbrain,
i know how much of a struggle its been to accept yourself. I guess i hope you can start to move forwards and embrace yourself. There are no life rules that say you HAVE to do anything though do everything at your own speed and make sure its stuff you want to do, not because you ought to do it.
i totally get how you've been torn apart by leaving your ex and not wanting to be gay, it tough and i went through it as well, but maybe with a different outcome than yourself as i'm pretty i'm not gay and that it was my OCD at work this whole time...

 

What you are describing is very similar to the Stoic's (such as Epictetus) and Nietzsche's amor fati, or, the love of one's fate. Notice, it is not mere acceptance, but the uncompromising love of one's fate in the sense that if you had to live your life over and over, you would not change a thing in it (Nietzsche's idea of eternal recurrence).

This Wikipedia entry describes it fairly well:

 

That was well said and I can relate to much of it. The question that comes to my mind is what happens (or what I can do) after I've accepted my sexuality since the gay-male community's beliefs and mores, which are considered to be required of all community members, are so at odds with who I am. That's the sticking point.

 

I'm intrigued by your statement that the gay male community seems to require adherence to certain beliefs and mores...If you were to come out with this sense of alienation, it would be akin to leaving one closet only to enter another.

Of course, it would be important to get to know of certain beliefs or mores within this "community", insofar as this loose collection of souls with a commonality of sexualities is similar enough to even have common beliefs and mores.

It would be better to understand that in all likelihood, the gay male community, such as it is, is as varied in its beliefs and mores as the general population. I would suggest then that you widen the circle of your gay male acquaintances to better understand this diversity, and perhaps even find people with whom you could relate in terms of beliefs and mores.

Unless of course this sense of the gay male community being "at odds" with who you are is perhaps a handy way to avoid confronting that first step, the one that gets you to say to yourself: Yes, I am gay.

Doing this does not relieve you of the responsibility of creating and living by your own set of values...you have complete freedom to chose what is important to you, and no "gay male community" could force you otherwise...

 

Thanks for your insightful response, greatwhale. I've been dealing with these issues for over a decade and a half and in various stages of "outness" during that time, and I think you're right that there's an interplay between internal and external factors for me. My perception of the gay-male community is largely derived from living in San Francisco for 30+ years, and perhaps the community here is not representative of gay men as a whole. In any event the mores that I think are held by many (a majority?) of gay men with which I don't identify include promiscuity and rationalization of non-faithful ("open") relationships. There's also a palpable sense of disgust toward any gay person who might hold other than left-leaning progressive values. I could cite numerous examples of these things, but the principal point is that for me there's "no there there" in terms of finding a community among gay men ... I relate much better to more conservative, straight people. Thus, there's no real point in "coming out" for me since doing so would only complicate my life further and probably lead to even more isolation. Were I do meet a man or a group of guys where I could form solid relationship(s) based on shared values then my decision would likely be different. But that's just not the reality in which I live.

 

Nerdbrain,

I am just in awe of what you wrote!

To me you made one of the biggest (if not the biggest) breakthrough realizations in life, and one that many never have - that you have free will and can frame your own experience, that you are always powerful in that choice, and you can choose happiness. I also think you found peace through acceptance and not by chasing perfection or pleasure. You really did have a breakthrough.

There's a really great book by Viktor Frankl - "Man's Search for Meaning". He recounts the Nazi concentration camp survival experience and describes the agony of searching for meaning in such a cruel environment - and the joy of discovering true happiness there. He comes to exactly the same radical realization of choice and acceptance that you have so eloquently highlighted.

It took me many years to reframe my early experiences of abuse, and to understand my free will and choice in the matter of my own happiness. I still struggle with complete acceptance of things that should have never occurred in the first place. At times I still find myself back on the happiness-through-pleasure hamster wheel. However I've realized that when life is inherently meaningless (as Frankl contends), the only response (and the liberating power) is to create your meaning as you wish.

In my opinion we're conditioned to look at happiness as a destination, a prize, a reward for achievment, a consequence of conditions being met. In reality happiness is almost synonymous with acceptance, and dependent only on choice. Because we're so conditioned to chase after external things (especially in Western consumerism culture) to make us happy, we perceive this other happiness through choice as 'fake'. I don't think you're experiencing anything fake at all - in fact it's so profound it's hard to put into words or maybe even believe.

My mom had a poster when I was little, a beautiful picture of a mountain and a field of wildflowers. It said simply:

I think you've learned the secret of happiness and the meaning of life!

*warm hugs*

Patrick

 

Now you've got it. As a song my friend sings goes "Rule number one is that you gotta have fun."

You don't know my friend but, that says volumes. my friend is gay, raised in a very religious home, forced through conversion therapy which, of course, did not work but, left lifelong scars you can't imagine.

To know my friend now, just 5 years later, you'd never guess what they went through. they are one of the most confident, happy, successful, self aware, self accepting people I know. Out and proud of it, not hiding it, living and loving who they are.

The key, accept, embrace then have fun being who you really are and, yeah it's a huge win when you can do that.

 

Justaguyinsf,

I think you may be seeing a community heavily influenced by the early gay political movement and being at the geographical epicenter of the AIDS epidemic. You're seeing an environment that was political (some were even radicalized) and rebellious in the face of a great deal of adversity in all forms - social, physical, spiritual, and psychological. I'm sure you're well aware of these forces in the history of San Francisco (and the broader gay rights movement), but it's worth taking stock.

As I grow older I see less and less of a single, cohesive "community". We are tied by a biological trait for sure (in my opinion) - but, the only other commonalities have been created by and experienced through adversity or politics shaped by adversity. You will find trauma, discord, loneliness, promiscuity, addiction, suicidality, and all other manifestations of this trauma and adversity. We are a community of wounds.

That being said, being gay is NOT those things! Being gay means that you long for intimacy - physically, emotionally, and spiritually - with the same gender. In light of the transgender experience and genderqueerness even this definition of being gay needs fine-tuning. My point is that you are confusing the trauma and lingering cultural impacts with the definition and identity of the community itself.

I highly recommend the writings of Joe Kort. He is a gay psychologist who writes extensively on the trauma most gays experience, and how to recognize and untangle the dysfunction that trauma may bring into our lives. He has simple, solid advice that I find true for me. He also isn't going to shove liberal sexual politics down your throat - but he will show you how to examine and find what's true for you.

Finally, this also can be looked at with choice and acceptance. Even if you can't see the "point" of taking pride in being gay, just try it on for size for a day. Just like you go shopping for clothes, take that idea into the dressing room and see how it fits. You can always take it off if it doesn't but that's your choice and that's your power.

*warm hugs from Seattle*

Patrick

 

I am going through these struggles too. It's been over 11 years since I came out and I am still not in a happy place totally about being gay. Some have said it could be that I lived overseas in a very closeted country for so long that I became numb, went back in the closet, got hurt (emotionally and physically) by my ex, etc... they have come up with a myriad of reasons... I don't even have gay friends in my own city because of this... I avoid anything to do with gay people in real life and my only interaction is here on EC.
Basically, I am fighting myself on a daily basis... I even tell myself I am gross when I see a guy who looks attractive...
I live with family which doesn't make it easier either... basically the "our house, our rules" and since I can't afford to move out, I have to be quiet... and deal with all this on my own.
You aren't alone in this... and hopefully one day you (and me too) will be in a happy space about who we are and love every fibre of our being...
Hugs

 

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, Patrick. I really appreciate it. I've been trying on the gay thing about 15 years now ... dated a lot of men and had boyfriends now and then, came out to a select few, and I think I know what I want. Unfortunately, I think what I want is nigh unto impossible to find. I'm familiar with Joe Kort, although I don't think I have read any of his books; maybe I'll check that out, although I'm not sure self help can change the realities of my life.

I agree with the kudos given you for the Nietzsche references. Very cool. Sorry if I am hijacking your thread, nerdbrain.

Tom

 

Nerdbrain

I totally relate to your post. For such a long time I think I compartmentalized being in any way gay and fought with my subconscious and did anything other than face up to it. I was also aware though that I didn't really want it to be fighting it my whole live, that on some level I wanted to accept it.

The girl who lost her limbs is a great parallel. I understand that people have to own and embrace their differences in order to move forward with their lives. Otherwise as you say you would be drowning in regrets and thinking constantly about what might have been rather than what actually is.

I guess that is also why some people feel empowered by labels and by physically changing their appearance. Instead of hiding and feeling ashamed you turn in around into being vocal, proud and visible.

I do now truly feel happy that I'm in some way gay as its part of what makes me who I am. I feel lucky to be different and to have questioned everything in a way that I suspect maybe some straight people maybe never will.

I've read before that you can make a conscious choice whether to be happy or not and maybe there is some truth in that. I wonder if there is also some truth in faking t until you make it? (&&&)

 

I can also relate. It all comes down to acceptance I think. You can spend half your life repressing and pretending it's not there, it's not real, it's not YOU. But sooner or later you have to accept it even if it's only to yourself. I'm neither happy or sad about it, but I realized a while back that it wasn't something I could get rid of or fight with... it was just a fact about me. Something that just is. Something unchangeable. After a while of living with this knowledge and realizing what it meant I found the courage to start being honest with my family. It was hard and I still don't know how much I want to share with the rest of the world, but once I saw myself for what I am rather than something I wished I could be instead, I found relief.

So, like you, I changed my mind too - from repressing, pretending, to seeing and acknowledging - accepting it for whatever it is.

 

It's funny but my husband and I have been considering moving to San Francisco. I'm thinking you should maybe move to Chicago. The way you describe the gay community seems maybe like it would have been somewhat representative of here twenty or maybe thirty years ago. But now it just seems like everybody wants to find a husband and move to the suburbs. Seriously, I don't hardly know anyone in an open relationship any more. Yes, I suppose most of us are left-leaning and we're probably a little less "judgy" about unconventional relationships but, alas, hardly any of us are actually in or looking for them. We're pretty damn bourgeois actually.:lol:

 

i believe this is called self acceptance and self love. we are who and what we are and can fake it but not change it. acceptance is a hugh step on the path to being who we are and who we were meant to/want to be.

 

I was just in San Francisco for Folsom — my first time there in 25 years. At first, I really enjoyed the whole scene, especially the feeling of acceptance no matter where I went. It felt so liberating (and I'm from Seattle, which is plenty liberal already!) But then, after spending a couple of hours in the Castro, it occurred to me that I was in some kind of alternative Disneyland. Almost everyone there was a starry-eyed tourist, like me. I began to wonder what life would really be like, living in SF. That night, my boyfriend and I went to Magnitude and met a couple in pretty much the same demographic as us. Partners for thirty-odd years, they had owned a house in the Castro forever, had a tiny garden they cultivated obsessively, and were making plans to sell up and move to acreage in Florida! When I asked why, they said that everything had changed and that it just wasn't fun anymore. Obviously, there was much more said, but I would just caution you to really investigate the living conditions before you take the leap. Besides, you'd be trading wind for fog! :lol:

 

I think anywhere you go you are going to find people who have been there long enough that it's just time to move on--new horizons and all that. I mean in the space of a paragraph I suggested we were considering leaving Chicago and suggested someone else move here. We love Chicago but we are pretty seriously considering moving somewhere else in retirement, partly just to have something new. Where we are is pretty accepting so that wasn't really what impressed us the most about San Francisco. It was more just how friendly everyone was. Seriously, within the first day or two of our first visit we stopped using our navigation apps in walking around the city because every time we pulled one out someone offered to help us anyway. After a while we realized it was just easier to ask a passerby. San Fran's probably kind of a pipedream anyway--it would add about a half a million to our retirement budget.:lol:

 

NerdBrain-You say in your original post "Being gay is not a loss, it's a win," and you are 100% correct; it's a powerful statement You could also say "Being who I am is not a loss, it's win." I think that is even more powerful!