1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

being gay and wanting kids

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Jerry36, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Jerry36

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    dear all,

    In sum: 38 year old guy, out since 2 years and just recently finally out to everyone, now dating guys and ready for a real relationship for the first time in my life.

    for a longer periode of time i knew i wanted to raise kids of my own but for the obvious reason its not that a natural thing to do. The thought of not having any makes me really sad, even depressed sometimes. Sometimes i read the coming out storys of guys who got married and do have kids and i think to myself that it cant be all that bad for them, but soon afterwards i realize it must have been even harder to come out for them in that particular situation as it was for me.

    On top of that i feel a lot of pressure as well, to be in a loving stable relationship first and than find a way of having a kid,maybe through combined parenthood. I know as well pressuring yourself into a relationship is bound to fail but i cant help feeling this way right now.

    I am not in a good place at the moment. Maybe someone understands what i am going through and share their thoughts? Does anyone had kids while being in a gay relationship?
     
  2. Patrick7269

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Jerry36,

    I'm right there with you. I'm 44 and I've been through several waves of this thought process, and the closest labels I can ascribe are "grief", "loss", "confusion", "doubt", and even at times "anger" about it all.

    I recognized this grief at about age 30 and worked on creating a gay life of connection and meaning after that. Today at 44 I don't feel the same connection and meaning I did in my 30s, and the desire for kids and the doubts have returned. I have such freedom that came with being out of the closet - but was it really worth not having the (assumed) joy of raising kids, the (assumed) security of a family life, and the (assumed) peace of knowing a part of you will live on after you're gone?

    I'm obviously leading to the notion of questioning assumptions, and this is where I'm at right now. Kids can inflict torture and loss because they may grow up completely different than you wanted, and your relationship to the notion of parenthood itself can change. I don’t think the grass is automatically greener on the completely straight and ostensibly normal side of the lifestyle fence either.

    Did my bigoted, homophobic, abusive father ever envision being "completed" by having a gay son? Why did I come to love and cherish a bigoted, homophobic, abusive father who was the only one who could give me the love and lessons he did? My favorite Thanksgiving dinner ever was the one I ate cold off a styrofoam box - on a diesel locomotive riding with my father after I brought it back to him from the dining car. I’m writing this in my train room - a full third of my mortgaged space - dedicated to a lifelong love affair with trains all because of his profession. My favorite drawings are the ones he and I did together. My favorite violin pieces are the ones he wished were bluegrass. He passed in 2010. He’ll never know just how thankful I was for him, and I continue writing this post now only as the sobbing has subsided.

    Was my mother "right" to pressure my dad to have kids as an ultimatum to get "serious" about the marriage before divorce? She only told me that in my late 30s, and it stung knowing that in no small way I was part of a bargain. Did the disgust in her eyes when I was literally caught with my pants down by her second husband when I was 12 belie how she still feels about me to this day? Or has her acceptance been real, and does she really love me as a gay man, despite not asking much about my emotional or romantic life? Would she have given that kids-to-save-marriage ultimatum fully well knowing that one child would disgust her (at least for a while) and the other, even though straight, would remind her of the husband she hated? Would she have forgiven my brother and made good in 1995 in order to avoid a 20 year falling out with my brother? Did they really make amends in 2015 because they love each other, or just because my brother now has beautiful twin girls that need their only surviving grandma?

    If I were married to a woman and had kids, I would bet they would now be in their either mid-teens or close to college. As a gay man, could I have raised them with all of myself, knowing fully well I was closeted and they were part of a bargain? Who would I be as their father, a person who needed to create life as part of a deep insecurity? For that matter, if I had kids today, as an out gay man, would I be having kids for them - or for myself? Why do people have kids anyway? Is procreation just a sexually transmitted disease of sorts, or is it supposed to fill a deep spiritual void? For that matter still, are any of the true gifts we get in life really all pleasant? Can your favorite Thanksgiving dinner really be from a styrofoam box as you want to bawl because you finally felt thankful for everything, the joy and the extreme pain?

    A gay friend of mine (an ex) lost his lover suddenly a few years ago, went through profound grief, and donated sperm for a lesbian couple to conceive. He knows the couple very well, and part of this bargain was that they raise the kid and he have no overt claim of a fatherhood role. Still, they’re good friends and the co-parenting roles seem to have worked well for now, only a little more than year into it. How will he feel as the child matures, becomes a man, and needs a connection to masculinity? What is masculinity to begin with? Does it come only from a man, or can it be modeled by lesbian parents?

    I’ve even noticed the trend of sperm donation by - of all places - Craigslist. With the healthcare costs of fertility treatment, some single women and women with an infertile partner are simply arranging sex for sperm donation. Wow, like that’s not confusing!!! And that’s just in the “stable” straight world! Let’s not even get into the relationship aspects and how bizarre that would feel.

    So the above bazillion or so questions have been a barrage on my mind, and it’s easy to feel lost quickly. If you are feeling a longing and a desire that leaves you feeling bereft, I would suggest starting with the spirituality of it. My personal belief is that sex and sexuality operate in the mind, body, and spirit. I think your spirituality (not that you’re necessarily religious) is telling you that you’re mortal (the spirit), and you need connection (the mind), but you need to compensate for your sexual orientation (the body) in order for it all to work out.

    For me, I have my nieces and nephews. My relationship with my nieces is very close, and I feel an intense connection that I can’t explain. Funny anecdote - they tackled me at the airport (it was a surprise that I was the one they were picking up for Christmas) and I fell right back on my backpack - with everyone’s gifts! Fortunately the gifts were fine but my gosh - those 4 year olds either need a serious diet, they need to go out for football, or I need to buy nothing but soft, plushy gifts! But that tackle really softened the spiritual fall and the loss of recognizing that I won’t ever have traditional parenthood, whatever that is anyway.

    No one is tackling me (in a good way at least) in the rest of my challenging and at times lonely life. I have such a serious and “put together” life, but with those girls (and kids generally) I feel such ease to just be myself. We have iPad finger painting, the Tickle Monster, the Narcoleptic Uncle Game (I must play sleep and wake up whenever commanded - anywhere, anytime), and so many other little things that indivdually don’t make sense but together paint a masterpiece I could have never done myself. I think they know they’re getting all of me - it’s in the way we play together, in the things I teach them (and that they teach me!), and in the way we simply are together. It’s in their eyes that they love me, and I hope they see it in mine. They have to know how much they give me, but just in case I remind them all the time by showering them with love and attention.

    I get the sweetest parts of fatherhood without all the homework, sacrifice, and of course the pain and confusion of the closet. Still, is this just yet one more bargain? As a person of faith, did I come out of the closet in radical truth or unrepentant rebellion? How does God feel about an earthly bargain involving sperm and egg?

    For now the bargain I’ve struck is to be a “rent-a-dad” with my nieces and nephews. The family at times can be heteronormative and even homophobic, but I know beyond measure that they love me just as I am. If I ever have doubts that I’m not good enough, not connected enough, or won’t leave something of myself behind I can look to a backpack of broken gifts. Maybe being gay (and even life itself) is a backpack of broken gifts that we are left to make whole and complete.

    Patrick
     
  3. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hey Jerry36,

    I can empathize with you. Your desire to parent is totally understandable and very cool. It seems like you should be focusing your search for a partner on someone who, like you, is also interested in parenting from the start so that you don't find yourself in a relationship where you have to choose between your bf/SO and your desire to be a parent. That can also eliminate the issue of pressuring someone, such as you described.

    IMO, it takes two parents to properly raise a child. From all the studies and articles I've read, it doesn't make any difference whether or not the two parents are same-sex or opposite-sex, in terms of the effectiveness of parenting and ultimate well-being of a child. In terms of the child potentially being harassed or bullied by outsiders for having same-sex parents, yes, there is still a potential issue there, depending on where you live.

    I don't personally know any same-sex parents, but there is a YouTube channel, listed below, which consists of videos by two married men who are raising a son.

    Matt and Blue

    Just some thoughts.
     
  4. Patrick7269

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I think QR has a good point - look for that compatibility (i.e. the mutual desire to raise kids) from the start. That being said, I wouldn't even bring up kids until you've dated for a bit. The longing to have kids may put the development of intimacy under pressure because you're in love with raising kids, not as much as your partner.

    I also completely agree that two parents are good. I have the means to raise kids and I could make it work logistically, but I have yet to sort through my own life to the point that when the kids are in a rough spot that I could be there for them. Two parents in a loving, stable relationship are needed to be an anchor when kids introduce their natural volatility and uncertainty. Of course we all joke that kids can terrorize and torment, but the kind of adversity I'm talking about involves the emotional wherewithal to know that you will be stable even when you feel like you've failed as a parent.

    Kids being harassed and bullied would still be a concern, even in today's age. As a parent I would hopefully turn that around into a deeper lesson about strength and overcoming adversity, but of course that's a risk to assume the kid's basic safety and the ability to cope. I do feel that the adversity of being different is a gift in disguise, and that's part of the recognition required for acceptance of being gay. I doubt a child could readily comprehend that and it would likely be your challenge to teach them this in time.

    Patrick
     
  5. Patrick7269

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Patrick's "backpack of broken gifts":

    [​IMG]
     
  6. angeluscrzy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    136
    Location:
    Maryland
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    That's such a cute picture. Makes me wish my girls were that small again.