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Making Progress but still struggling a bit to my own disappointment

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by r2de2baca, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. r2de2baca

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    Hi Guys,

    This one may be a bit long but I do appreciate your help and insight. I am in my early 40s and I have been struggling with self acceptance for quite a bit of time. I have sought out counselors and although they have been helpful, I am not sure I was ever really in the right state of mind to accept the help they were trying to provide. In fact, at times I was quite resistant. Some were better than others and some where not so great. In a way, I was still holding on to this notion of maybe being "gay" or liking guys would pass or I would be able to experiment, find out this didn't work for me and then go back to a healthy relationship with a female and feel as right as rain. After years of soul searching, that never happened. Mostly I stayed stagnant and essentially put other things like work, gym and other activities ahead of doing the "real work" of sorting out my sexuality and getting out of the cycle of guilt and shame. In a way, I thought, if I could avoid "gayness" and keep myself busy with other things, I would not have to feel guilt or shame over being "gay". This has lead to loneliness and self isolation.

    So where am I now and what do I need help with. Let's start with the positives:

    1. I attended some local gay and bisexual meetup groups to help myself meet people outside of a gay bar and club atmosphere. I also tried plugging into some coming out mens group through local lgbt groups. I was very nervous to go to these things.

    2. I have come out to a few more of my friends in 2016 which was a huge step for me.

    3. I used to feel great guilt and shame for going to gay clubs and dancing with other guys. Instead of great shame, I still feel moderate shame and this is something I need help with.

    4. I forced myself to go to a few gay get-togethers around the holidays with guys my own age.

    So what are my current issues and where do I need support:

    1. Shame and Guilt: I recently purchased Velvet Rage and hoping this may give me some help and insight. The crazy thing is whenever I get close to "living my truth" I feel horrible about it. There's something within me that holds soooooo much shame about being attracted to men, expressing the attraction and heaven-forbid ACTING on the attraction. On a few occasions, I have gone to gay clubs and have drinks and ended up dancing and grinding on a guy while dancing and being touchy-feely consensually. Now if I had done this at a straight club with a woman, I would not feel bad. However, because it was with a guy, afterwards, I kept wondering, omg, people were looking, was anyone there I knew? I probably looked like a slut. I hate myself, and I'm a bad person. What if there were straight people there I knew? What are the bartenders going to think of me?
    Even writing this, I can see how irrational it all sounds. I mean, it's a gay club, I"m sure they have seen it all. The reality is I have used perfectionism to build this fake mask that whenever there is a visible crack in it that can be visible to others, I go into shame-guilt panic mode until I can patch up the crack, stick the mask back on, until the crack appears again and the cycle happens again. Years later, I feel stuck in the same boat and a bit down that I have not progressed. However, when I look at the positives above, I can say that I am making strides. Very slow, but I have made some great strides and I am not where I used to be but not really where I want to be.

    My main questions are:

    1. How can I get over the dirty dancing shame from gay clubs. It's not like I'm taking people home or doing sexual acts in the clubs. But I feel so horrible about it but in the moment I'm having such a good time and just living my life and fully aware of what I am doing. In some of those moments I feel so free. Like "geez, i can breathe and just be me". I feel like I know the fake image of me more than I actually know the real me. I almost refuse to get to know him.

    2. Dating: I have tried the ********** (so hard because I did not want to put a picture up), but I did anyway and *******. Basically a lot of guys want to hook up just like in the clubs which is not my style. Sometimes I feel so scared to "come out to them" as someone that doesn't want to hook up because I know I will be dumped as it has happened timeless times before. I want to be Ok with being authentic in terms of how fast or slow I want to go with getting physical without feeling bad that I'll be seen as undesirable because of it. I'm a bit ashamed of not being very sexually experienced with guys and feel like if/when I tell a guy this, that I'll be seen as undesirable because of it.

    Thanks for listening. Sorry it was so long but I really hope someone has insight.
     
  2. WarmEmbrace

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    My opinion (and I want to underline this is just an opinion and not a fact, as it may very well be wrong :slight_smile: ) about the problem that might be keeping you from the happy long term relationship is not you being inexperienced in regard to sex, or not wanting to randomly hook up, not not looking good enough, but rather the your own strong nonacceptance of your gay self, your self doubts. ( I won't say self hate, it is maybe too strong of a word).

    Subconsciously people you interact with pick up on that, if you cannot accept and love yourself as gay, then will you be able to truly love your life long gay partner? Or will your self doubts negatively reflect on them at some point as well ? Their love for you, no matter how great, will not be able to compensate for your lack of love for yourself. So then why, if you cannot truly love yourself without doubts, why would they believe that you can love them? Why would they sign up for that? The ways we relate to others are similar with the ways we relate with our inner selves. Beware of the naked man that offers you a shirt. :slight_smile:
     
  3. r2de2baca

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    thanks. i do have self hate. i try and mask it. maybe other can see it. i am really down about some dirty dancing i did at a club. i grinded on some guy and we touched each other. i feel ashamed and disappointed in myself because this was an old behavior i promised myself i would not repeat and then i avoided the club scene for a while and only ended up doing it again. at the time i didnt care and felt free and then afterwards i am paranoid about who may have saw me or taped it or took pics. i am not even sure any of that happened as people probably were concerned about their own lives. but i get hyper down about letting myself down because i am supposed to look and appear classy and sophiacated at all times in my mind...again the mask. :frowning2:
     
  4. WarmEmbrace

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    You're welcome. I think your guess it right. I do trust you mission is to get rid of the self hate, and embark on the path of self acceptance :slight_smile:.

    The people you would want with you in a loving long term relationship do see through that mask sooner or later, and if you manage by luck to find the one that does not see though it they'll just end up being hurt by it later on.
     
  5. r2de2baca

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    thanks any thoughts on the dancing episode..
     
  6. WarmEmbrace

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    Just.. stop feeling guilty about it :slight_smile:.
     
  7. I'm gay

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    I think this all comes down to self-acceptance. Once you truly accept yourself as a gay man, and can be proud of that, then your worries about what other people will think will just vanish. What will they think? They will think you are gay. So what?

    The real truth here is that what you imagine other people will think of you is really what you think of yourself - you're just projecting those thoughts onto other people and what you imagine they will think.

    Do you spend time thinking about what other people are doing in the bedroom? Probably not. People won't spend time thinking about your sex life either. It's really all just you, and what's inside your own head.

    The sooner you come to peace about being gay, the more relaxed you will be around others - gay or not. Work on finding your inner peace and loving your gay self.

    Take care. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:
     
  8. r2de2baca

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    you are so right. i read the other day that how harshly we judge others is exactly how we judge and feel about ourselves. if i had saw someone doing what i was doing i would think he is too old to be behaving like that, wow he is a freak, looks like he is a good time guy (not in a good way i.e. slut). but this is exactly what i think about myself and why i have such a hard time with things.all of this is in my head. i have seen countless straight people behave in the same way but because its a man and a woman i still judge it but not as harshly. since its a guy involved with me my own internalized self hate rises to the service and i judge myself harshly for doing what all people in bars and clubs across the country do..party..dance...touch and grind. there is this part of me that wants to be perfect. wants to be seen as in control at all times. a good "boy". i have been perfecting that image my whole life and its exhausting. sometimes i just want to say "screw it" and then i end up going to what inperceive is an extreme...almost like a "EFF You World!!! Im am doing me for a change!!!" but then reality sets in. im not confident in who this person is and all i know is my perfect good boy image that seems safe and seems like gets me praise. at over 40 years old why do i hive an eff what random club people think of me?
     
  9. I'm gay

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    I think you still care what people think of you because you still don't think of yourself as a good person. You still think of yourself as a freak.

    When you stop doing that, everything will change.
     
  10. r2de2baca

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    ok how do i stop doing that then? ive tried it all and i still do. its like its hard wired in me.
     
  11. I'm gay

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    What worked for me was coming out. To everyone.

    Once everyone knew I was gay, and I was no longer hiding my sexuality with anyone, it became so easy to stop caring what people might think about me. Now that they all know I am gay, what difference now does it make if they know I went to a gay bar, or a gay nightclub, or know that I am on a date with a guy.

    Once you come fully out of the closet with people who know you (especially those whose opinion of you concerns you the most if they knew), then I think you'll stop obsessing over anyone else who sees you at the gay club.

    I hope that makes sense. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:
     
  12. Contented

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    I'm gay you said a mouthful. You've exactly right on the mark. I am close to coming out and putting an end to the speculation. Not that it really matters.
     
  13. r2de2baca

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    yea maybe i need to come out more.im still hiding to some. maybe i need to rip the bandaid off. some
     
  14. Contented

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    I assume it is truly liberating. I hope to experience that feeling soon. I think it is the only way to move forward towards acceptance of yourself.
     
  15. r2de2baca

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    well i think u r right. i used to want a hidden realtionship too. now i see how stupid that would be and how impossible it may be as well for something healthy. i think as we get older and the life spam clock starts going in the other direction its easier to say ok wtf am i doing wasting my life being misrable.let us know how it goes with the hottie-pa-tottie.
     
  16. mnguy

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    A lot of what you wrote rings true for me too, "perfection" mask, staying busy to ignore the need for companionship leading to isolation. Your positives are all great so keep doing all that this year. Just wanted to mention Brene Brown's books on shame and vulnerability since you discussed shame. I found them interesting. One thing of many her books got me to think about is feeling worthy of connection, belonging and love. Seems like I don't feel very worth of those things. Here's a link to some of her quotes https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/162578.Bren_Brown