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I feel so cheated

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by quebec, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. quebec

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    Hello All...
    I quite realize that there is nothing that can be done about what I'm going to write. Well, actually there is...I just have to work through it, get over it and go on. I think that "talking" about it might help. Here it is...

    I feel so cheated. I was born in 1950. At the age of 15 in 1965 I chose to lock away the gay and live as a straight man for the rest of my life. Societies' attitude towards homosexuality at that time scared me terribly. My church taught that it was an abomination. I felt helpless to do anything but go along with what everybody expected. So I dated women, eventually got married, had three children and four grandkids. Now things have changed. I came out here on EC two years ago and to my wife four months ago. Amazingly the love that we have developed for each other over 38 years has been strong enough to keep us together....BUT

    I never got to hold my boyfriends hand.
    I never got to cuddle with my boyfriend..
    I never took a walk in the park with my boyfriend.
    I never woke up in the morning and turned over to kiss my boyfriend.
    I don't know if I'm a top, a bottom or versatile...because I've never had gay sex.
    I've never been able to rejoice with my male partner over being able to finally get married.
    I've never....and the list goes on amid my bitter tears.

    Why oh why was I and so many, many others like me cheated?

    I know there is no good answer. I know that things have change and I'm so glad they have. Because things have changed, I have been able to come out as much as I have ( my wife and a few others). Still, it hurts...it hurts a lot sometimes. I so hope, that as time goes by, fewer and fewer people will feel that they have to hide who they are. It's not right, I hate it and I have a lot of trouble listening to those who call us abominations, sinners and evil...I.AM.NOT. and never was. I guess that's all for now. I just had to share this with someone before I exploded. Thanks so much for "listening"....David
     
  2. greatwhale

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    Dear Quebec,

    Your post above inspired me to look up some quotes from Alan Watts that might help you. As usual, he does not disappoint:

    "That now is the creative point of life....The present is always changing the past."

    The past (as the future) is a real illusion, it is part of what you are creating in the present, which is the only reality, no exceptions.

    Can you find a way to change the meaning of the past? Is forgiveness possible (mostly for yourself)? Is self-acceptance possible, even at this stage of your life?

    I also struggled with this, having come out much later in my own life. But I realized that we confuse and make real what is really only a symbol: "the past", as all words is a symbol, as all money is not real, it just represents wealth. The only thing I have, and the only thing that deserves my attention is the present moment and living it.

    Life will flow, like water, to the lowest point, but on the way, it may find itself caught in eddies that lead to dead ends, and it must overflow to again find its natural path. Follow the stream of your life as you are living it now, even now, despite the passage of years, love is possible. All it takes is an openness to its possibility.
     
    #2 greatwhale, Feb 2, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
  3. quebec

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    greatwhale....
    Thanks so much for the quotes. They do help. It has been hard this last week or so as I've dealt with this whole issue. I do quite realize that all of this is in the past and I am making my new present with a new me and things are now different. I have only been on this new road for two years now and I have found that I need to consider the past somewhat, as that past has caused me to have the attitudes, feelings and actions that occur today. So often, things that are road blocks to me as I find out what my new life as an out gay guy is(even though I am only out to a few) are very much rooted in what I did/thought in the past. The process is...example:1) I having trouble adjusting to what gay sex means 2) Is this because of something that happened to me or that I was told in the past 3) In this case, Yes, 4) Ok, let's look at it and work out why it affected me that way and how do I learn to sort of re-educate myself so that, in this case, I am no longer having difficulty with the concept of gay sex. I've had to work through a number of things like this. My therapist has been a huge help in guiding me to find out the root of issues I have as I try to learn who the Gay-me really is. In this case it was really tough as I came to realize the things that were taken from me because of the attitude of society when I was young. At the same time I constantly remind myself that I have had a good life, a good wife, a good marriage, good children and grandchildren and had a great job for 41 years (teacher). It has all become a balancing act, keeping that part of my "straight" life that is good and adding to it the parts of my new "Gay life" as I learn more about myself. I apologize for the length of this reply! It seems when I start sharing with someone so much inside me just pours out!...David
     
  4. MOGUY

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    David,
    I can relate to so much of what you say. I am 58, came out to my wife and a couple of close friends about 4 years ago, and have every intention of staying in the monogamous relationship with my wife. I feel much more at peace since coming out but I refuse to allow myself to wonder what-if. Being gay is only a portion of my make-up and I don't feel that I have to have a physical relationship with another man to live an "authentic" life. I feel that my life as it is, is living authentically. I am thankful for the person I am today and believe me, it has taken a lifetime to be able to utter those words sincerely. I am not saying that my own decisions are right for everyone or for anyone. But it is right for me, and I wish you peace in your life.
     
    #4 MOGUY, Feb 2, 2017
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  5. bunnydee

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    David,

    I feel the exact same way. But I acknowledge that it was my own choices that kept me closeted - there is no one else to blame. We only have control of what we do now, not what was done in the past.
     
  6. I'm gay

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    I am able to let go of the past because I believe that I made the best decisions I could make at the time with the options available to me at the time.

    I am now making decisions in the here and now, and making the best decisions I can today with the options available to me today.

    If you decide that you have no options today, then you will have no options. If you decide that you will never leave your marriage, then you won't leave your marriage. If you decide you are too old to change your life, then you won't make any changes.

    Are you happy? If not, what will make you happy?

    I think Greatwhale's post to you makes this same point. If you make changes in your present in order to follow your heart, it will change how you think about your past. I'm moving forward in my life, and my past decisions are already way lower on my worry list.

    Take care. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:ride:
     
  7. quebec

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    Thanks so much to all of you! I really do agree with everything that you have sent my way. I am working on my present...I'm learning more everyday about who I am, especially now that I have finally come to terms with what I have really known, but rejected, all along. I really like what "I'm gay" said; "If you make changes in your present in order to follow your heart, it will change how you think about your past." I am moving forward, it's just that, once in a while I find that I have to look to the past to discover why I feel the way I do about some things in my life. After doing that I find it easier to accept/make the changes that the new Gay-me wants and needs. I been through so many changes in the last two years that as I look back I sometimes don't even recognize that person anymore. I feel so good about where I am now and look forward to what will come. I know that what I dealt with this last week upset me quite a bit, but that happens, at least to me, when I have to deal with serious things that are still holding me back. I feel for my sake as well as my wife's that I have to move carefully...some things are hard for me and I know that they are very difficult for my wife. We are both doing our best to be patient...it's not so easy after being together for 38 years to find so many things about our relationship changing. I hope that those of you who wrote to me..and others too who are trying to find your way along this path with a spouse are as fortunate as I am to have a spouse who loves me and wants to be with me as I work through this...David
     
  8. greatwhale

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    I would like to bring to this discussion an art form called Kintsugi that could be seen as an apt metaphor for the beautiful transformation that is possible from what has been broken. One could say that a "break from the past" fits into this category...

    [​IMG]

    And a quote from Ernest Hemingway's A Farewell to Arms (1929)

     
    #8 greatwhale, Feb 3, 2017
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  9. quebec

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    greatwhale....
    Thank you so much for your last post! That really hit me hard. I know that who I am today is because of what I have gone through in my life...I just hadn't thought of it in the way you pointed out with the broken bowl. I'm happier now than I've ever been and I'm looking forward to a future that I know will see even more changes in the new-me. I do sometimes grieve over the could-have-been but I think that is a part of the healing process as I accept myself as gay and learn more all the time about this wonderful part of my life that I'm experiencing now. All the pain and hurt have led me to where I am now, it wasn't always much fun but the road I walked has finally brought me to find my true, authentic self. Even though I am only out to a few, it has made all the difference in the world! I remember another thing I learned when my son, at age 7, broke his leg in two places. He was in traction for a month and then a body cast for six months. Now that leg is stronger than the other. Having been broken, I know that I am stronger now. Thank you again and thank you to all who have offered their help.....David
     
  10. FalconBlueSky00

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    I want to point out that your age is listed at 66. Dude your ONLY 66. You have more life ahead of you than you're imagining, and the wisdom to live without regrets. You have such a bright future, and family to support you on your journey. Go for everything thing you want, and mark off that list!
     
  11. justaguyinsf

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    Really awesome and inspiring answers! You made the best choices you could at the time and they brought you to where you are today, which is a great thing. Try not to idealize your image of what the road not taken may have been like ... it's inaccurate and just keeps you locked into feeling bad. And look to the future and what can still be ... you still have life ahead of you that you shouldn't waste on feeling bad!
     
  12. quebec

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    Thanks so much Bunny45 & justaguyinsfyes, I am looking forward to the rest of my life. I am glad that I have finally let myself out of the closet and have begun to come to terms with who I really am. I'm trying not to "Live with regrets" but sometimes I hit roadblocks on my journey and, most of the time, I have to find out why they are there before I can really tear them down. My experience last week was a real roadblock, but it's gone now and the way is clear! At least until the next one. :slight_smile:. I am so fortunate to have a supporting wife and son. There is no question that their acceptance has allowed me to move on. I don't know how others feel about this but for me to move on discovering who I really am and endeavoring to lead an authentic life, as much as my current situation allows, I have to face those roadblocks and understand them before I can move past them. Anyone who reads this, if you agree/disagree with that last sentence, please leave a post. I want to know if others have to handle things this way or if you have found a different way to deal with things from your past that cause problems for you as you learn who you are after coming out. Each time I work past a problem I draw closer to who I want to be. It feels so good to be able to lay those old attitudes and opinions aside and move on!....David
     
  13. gchal00

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    quebec

    Very similar story to mine. I came out very slowly and last to my family just before I turned 50. Pretty much everything on your list I missed out on. I even got a job in San Francisco to make it easier. LOL. I made my choices, my mistakes and yes have regrets, but I acted as needed based on my current situation. I totally agree with you. Some of us have to do that.

    Time to be forward facing and try to revisit your list. Check some things off. All the best to you.
     
  14. quebec

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    Hey Greg...
    Thanks for the post! I am looking forward and inspite of the cliche, things are getting better! However, what I have found when I'm having difficulty with an aspect of this new path I'm on, is that it is often caused by what I learned or was forced to do to keep my "mask" on while I was growing up and for the long time that I hid my true self. When I realize that and face it I can then work past the thing that is bothering me.....David
     
  15. justaguyinsf

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    One thing you might try is when the feelings of regret start to come up to replace those thoughts instead with thoughts about what you can do now to enjoy your life more ... maybe get in better shape or join a social club for gay guys ... or both!
     
  16. quebec

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    Thanks justaguyinsf that is a good idea! I actually do "replace" those thoughts/feelings, but I mostly do it with writing. Posting here on EC always helps and I also have a few people who I'm out to that I can email or text. One thing that I have learned, the hard way, is to be sure to deal with the problem even if it takes a few days. I used to try and ignore uncomfortable thoughts but I have learned how little that solves. Having finally faced up to being gay (I am so glad I did) I remind myself that taking care of problems that crop up as I learn more about myself is much easier than coming out. So I know I can do it!...David
     
  17. brainwashed

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    Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself. Richard M. Nixon.

    Great post and follow up discussion. My past also haunts me. I have reasoned that my past which really is energy inside me, could control me and take me over or I can do the following. a) make things better for others. This means gay people today need help. So I can take on their cause. This also gives me purpose. b) like Nixon above, I hate those who did this to me but I choose to embarrass them and not hate them - which I am working on. If The World had not shamed the Nazi's for the holocaust, they would have gotten away with it. I am working on shaming "religious types". I repeat to myself, they are not going to win and they are going to be shamed.

    There are down moments, understandable. Replace down moments with positive up moments. Moments like, I helped younger gay people last week and they gave me love and appreciation.
     
    #17 brainwashed, Feb 4, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  18. quebec

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    brainwashed.....
    Thanks for your reply. Yes, the "ifs" can tear you apart and while I do think about things that could have been, I don't live there. Part of understanding where you are emotionally/why you feel the way you do, is looking for the original cause and dealing with it. For me, at least, it helps for me to understand why I feel the way I do. Then I find it's easier to be aware of that reason and to stop or redirect those emotions. Working through negative things from the past has really helped me to move on with my life. I just have to be careful not to let myself dwell on those things from the past that caused problems!....David
     
  19. quebec

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    Adz...Good afternoon....ok it's 2:45 pm here! Just went on a short bike ride, only about ten blocks. I used to ride much further than that. About 2005, three years after my first back surgery, I would ride 5-6 miles almost every day in the Summer. At one point I even started riding out to a small town 25 miles South of where I live...always called my wife to drive out and pick me up! :lol: By the time I got all the way out there my behind was too sore to sit on there seat any more and my legs where too tired to stand up and pedal home. But I really enjoyed it anyway. Just being outside, by myself so I could let my thoughts go where ever they wanted to...and you know where they went :icon_bigg. It passed the time and the hot sun would warm up the muscles in my back that were still recovering from the surgery. I didn't know then that the muscles would have to endure six more surgeries and would probably never recover. At least they haven't so far...but with some luck and no more surgeries they might actually have a chance. The Dr. says they should...but what does he know? HA! I had to stop twice and adjust the seat higher because my right knee (totally knee replacement in 2009) wasn't able to straighten all the way out and it really hurt. Got that fixed and the rest of the ride was fine. If the good weather keeps up I'll try to go out every day. I go to the gym almost every day, but the stationary bikes just aren't as much fun as being outdoors.

    I had a really great talk with my therapist on Wednesday. I have been thinking a lot about post I made last February. I honestly don't remember when we started sharing back and forth, so I don't know if you ever saw that post...so here it is....


    So sorry...looks like this is going to be another of my loooong posts! :dry: Anyhow, I've though a lot about what was taken from me, how I was cheated by society and not allowed to be me. At the same time, I spent some serious time thinking about how my life has turned out and I had to admit that it has been good. There's is no doubt that I have spent almost all of my life living in regret, wishing that things were different, crying myself to sleep at night and desperately wishing that things were different. But I also have to admit that I did accomplish my dream of being a teacher, that I did have the family that I wanted. I did find a woman I could live with and eventually came to love her in my own way. I do have three wonderful sons and four really incredible grandchildren. I have well over a thousand former students that stay in touch with me and at last count there are 15 former students that became band directors because of their experiences in my bands and the love for music that I taught them. So do I have the right to complain? Well...actually yes I do, because the choices I made were often forced on me, they weren't what I wanted. All that I've just written was the discussion between me and my therapist...then he hit with the: "death-blow" question; "If you could have come out at 18 years old and be guaranteed never to get HIV/AIDS, would you give up the life you have lead and trade for the things that you felt you were cheated of?" I though for quite a while before I answered, I though about never meeting my wife, I thought about my three wonderful sons never existing and my grandchildren never being born and I just broke down into tears...just like I am right now. Adz...I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't condemn my loved ones to non-existence so that I could live my life as an out gay man...the price is just too high. So for the last several days I've had to work pretty hard to get myself back on an even keel emotionally. It's been rough and I've broken down into tears several times. I want so much to be able to hold a guy's hand, to snuggle, to kiss. But I now realize that unless my wife and I are able sometime in the future to work out some kind of agreement, that's just not going to happen. It's not easy giving up a dream (I'm so sorry this has become such a depressing post...but it gets better). But I am finding that living in reality and not living in that dream is actually helping me. I know that sounds wrong...but it's true. It's not that I have given up ever being with a guy even in a small way, I haven't....but now it's not constantly on my mind. I don't think about it every time I see a hot guy. I do look at him and think; "Wow he's hot, look at those tight jeans!" :thumbsup: But I don't start thinking about being cheated because I can't be with him. I'm actually starting to feel a little more relaxed when I think about being gay, it doesn't leave me feeling sad like it use to a lot of the time. It was a hard thing to learn, but I really do think it has helped me. I still don't know for sure wether I should thank my therapist or punch him! :bang:

    Wow...that's definitely enough for one post, I wouldn't be surprised if I have to cut this in half and make two posts out of it! Hope you have a great day.....David XOXOCXOXOXOXO