And I'm sure most of you are saying "No shit Zen!" Well you know what? I'm a slow learner, which is why I'm in the Later in Life crew. :smilewave OK I've tried to write this a couple times and it seems my words keep failing me. Sorry if this reads like gibberish (maybe a dyslexia post is in order). I'm attracted to women. Less frequently a man will catch my eye. If the person is a woman, trans woman or an effeminate man it all feels pretty similar. For me they all follow a similar format if you will. An initial noticing, maybe a friendly conversation and that all ties into a romantic or sexual admiration. I'm now wondering if in some way I perceive those people as the same gender or at least close enough that my lizard brain just sort of lumps them all together? (I know there are problems with this statement and I truly don't mean to imply that trans-women aren't women or that effeminate men aren't men.) When it's a man (a regular dude) it's...very tough to describe. Maybe because that's newer for me and also those feelings are all tied up with fear and guilt. It doesn't seem more powerful than my hetero attractions. But it doesn't play out the same. This is where I get befuddled. I had thought that it would be similar to my attraction to females only directed at guys. It isn't but I can't say WHAT it's like. Certainly feels like an attraction though. Maybe someone can help me put it into words. Then this brings me back to my bi vs. Gay internal debate. I wonder if this is a sign that I am gay or some super confused straight idiot. Is possibly one attraction the "real" thing? If so what does it say about the other attraction?
Does this mean straight acting men? Or straight men? Most of the gay men that I know are a mix of effeminate and masculine. How do you experience them?
Yes. Straight acting and appearing men. The gay men I've known I have almost never found attractive. But those are few so I don't know if that tells me much. I've never been in a situation where I could just hang out at ease with a gay man. When I say "effeminate" I meant men with soft physical features.
When I first came out to myself as bisexual (as a transitory orientation), I preferred straight acting guys. Over time as I began to purge my shame and internalized homophobia, I started to become more comfortable with gay and more effeminate-acting guys. Now that I identify as gay IRL, I like guys who are straight acting in heteronormative environments but who are more effeminate / campy when around gay guys and in private. So I'm guessing there's a self-acceptance component at play here. As a Kinsey 5, guys make me feel :wow:
Hey Zen fix I was going to start a new thread here about my experiences in the last 6 months since I started exploring the gay parts of my sexuality. But, your post sort of describes the way I feel too. I, without a doubt, have a type of guy I find attractive. Being sort of a hit it head on sort of person, I dived into the local gay culture headfirst. I attend pride, gay ski weeks, gay campouts, gay potlucks and parties...anything I can. I "hookup" with all sorts of different guys (the"" is because I more often than not...a lot more often...just have a cup of coffee or a beer). I now have about 20 gay friends that I COULD be intimate with if I wanted to. But, I am not really attracted to ANY of them, even the ones I was intimate with. The type of guy I am attracted to I just haven't met. It's a very narrow band of attraction for me. I'm that way with women too but not to the same extent. I wondered if it was some sort of homophobia as SF suggested? But, maybe it is just a function of who we are attracted to...as simple as that. Your description of how it feels different is what I feel. I did meet one guy (don't know if he is gay) that I am drawn to in a big way. He is masculine...but, more than that, he looks like a 40 year old version of me. I think when we are new at this, we just have to be open to our feelings and be honest with ourselves. This is a journey.
Hey Nick, I was hoping you'd chime in on this thread. I think one's type and healing the shame/IH are independent (though somewhat related) vectors here. We are more attracted to our type and (at least in my case) there was a period getting comfortable (including healing the shame) before I could really enjoy gay sex (!) Of course getting comfortable is a lot easier when we meet our type of guy, and it's easier to meet our type when we are comfortable.
Siennafire I don't doubt that this is a process as we work through learning parts of ourselves that we kept hidden for so long. I keep reminding myself that this is an adventure in self-discovery. A lot of the time it does feel exciting but it is also stressful. One of my young gay friends commented that it must be so hard to go through this process of coming out being older. I've been thinking about that...I don't think it is. In some ways it is a gift at this point in my life to be able to have new experiences and learn so much about myself. Ridding ourselves of the shame so we can do this is part of the process.
Both It's easier because we are more ready to come out than we were when we were younger. It's harder because of the side effects of coming out, such as separation and restructuring our families as part of the process.
Gosh, there's just such a spectrum, and we're attracted to others for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes you can idolize someone because of a trait that we don't see in ourselves. As a species, I think we struggle to learn how to love, and attuning ourselves to the frequency of love that is always there. I know I do. As for a spectrum of masculinity, I think we live in a time idealizing hyper-masculinity. Look at the old beach movies of the 50s and 60s, and you just see lean guys (pre-estrogen laden packaging), but now buffed guys with popping veins are the heroes, even though the actors may need to do unhealthy things for 48 hours before the scene is shot. At one point, I had so successfully compartmentlaized my attractions, that I ended up trying to figure out whether I was gay by the math, joking my gay numbers were as high as 86%. I'd wonder what in the hell "incidental" meant in the Kinsey definitions. I've wondered how life might have been different if my family didn't have a de-gaying program for me. After my arm was in a sling, they would gesture with a dangling wrist, so I'd lower my hands to my sides. They'd also tell me if I was starting to sound like Paul Lynne, having me experiment by substituting a "z" sound instead of an "s". It was a project that unified my dad and brothers, and I could see the sense of alarm in my dad's eyes. Anyway, I wonder whether if I had not learned how to adequately pass as straight whether I would have sooner realized the ex-gay programs were b.s. I knew a man in my twenties who was pretty effeminate, but his self acceptance and joy were inspiring. I'll never forget the look on his face when he was listening to some favorite classical music. Kind of funny, but I once was corrected by an ex-gay group member when describing the lightning bolt I felt when seeing this young woman put groceries in her car. Her symphony of curves would be difficult to capture with a compass or protractor. And who doesn't think some lesbians are adorable with a boyish heart shaped face. Granted, my physical response doesn't go much further than a blush, but beauty is beauty, and we humans have quite a diverse spectrum. Yes, for me, the lightning bolts that hit the hardest are men, and twice in the last year I've see a man from a distance who is so handsome, it's almost transcendent, angelic. I may never be with someone like that, but so inspiring, how can another human with eyes not be in awe? ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2017 at 02:34 PM ---------- I guess what I'm trying to say is, enjoy and celebrate beauty where ever you find it. Analyzing it can just take you out of the moment.
