Here we are again, sort of

So last November I wrote a thread about getting over my friend/FWB. I considered just bumping the thread but thought instead to start a new one and just link the old one here. So for point of reference:

http://emptyclosets.com/forum/lgbt-later-life/224929-time-just-let-him-go.html

The cliff notes version is the 19-year-old guy who I had been sleeping with from May 2015-September 2016 with a sugar daddy-like arrangement ended things with me back then, said it would never happen again, I didn't deserve it, he wasn't attracted to me anymore, etc.

In the months that followed, him and I became close friends again. Sex was off the table and that made us both relax I think. Now I'll admit, I had originally said to him that I thought within 4 months we'd be back at it because it was far from the first time he said he was ending it only for us to start again. Always him prompting us to start again. He was angry that I said that at the time and that's when he said he wasn't attracted to me anymore, I guess making it clear that this time it really was done for good. And I did let go of it.

At the end of December, some things changed. His boyfriend lost his job. And then decided to go stay with his family out of state for what could have been months. It ended up just being 3 weeks, but there was potential for it to be 2-3 months or more initially. My friend messaged me about this. Right away I asked if it meant we needed to figure some stuff out. We're roommates and so my concern was did he plan on moving out, etc. I never thought about our old deal or sex because he was so clear that it was done. I was actually ready to just offer some financial help if he needed it with rent and such. He's my friend and I worry.

He brought up sex. And our deal. He brought it up in a way where he was super into it. Where even if he did move out, he wanted to know if we could still have sex. That while his boyfriend was gone, he had permission to have sex with me one on one. And he seemed genuinely excited for it.

Of course I went for it. I still had some feelings for him and our sex is always great. This was a no-brainer for me. So we got back to it. Me paying for the rent and other bills, and he and I sleeping together. And when his boyfriend came back in February, we continued with threesomes. Frequency went down from when we were doing it one on one, but we still did it. And did it this month too.

A few things happened along the way. One, he pulled away as a friend. I didn't know why he was pulling away but I could tell he was. I asked about it. Why don't we text as much anymore? He said it was because he had a new job that was much busier so he couldn't text all day like when he was bored at the other job (true). I asked if it bothered him that I went on a few dates with another 19 year old (he said it didn't). Eventually I just accepted that we weren't as close anymore. I always fought with him about it when he would pull away in the past but this time I was just ready to accept that it's where we stood now. Why chase him to be closer to me? He was going to be as close as he was going to be and that's it.

I also realized just a few weeks ago that my romantic feelings for him were gone. It feels weird but I know it. The butterflies and knots I used to get in my stomach when thinking about him aren't there anymore at all. I care about him as a friend and I'm attracted to him, but that's it. I'm not sad that I'm not dating him anymore. Not even a little. For me, this was a significant breakthrough. And it just sort of happened. It doesn't even scare me to say it.

Well, two days ago he decided to end things again. He said once again he thought us having sex was toxic for our friendship. That he was pulling away from our friendship for awhile and becoming distant because of it. And that he just wasn't attracted to me anymore.

I didn't fight with him this time. I wasn't heartbroken like I was in the past when he's call it off. In a way I actually felt kind of relieved. There were aspects of the deal that were stressing me out. Like spending almost everything I make on it. I make a decent salary and could really have a lot of extra money every month if I wasn't paying his bills, but instead for the chance to have sex with him 3 times a month I was living essentially broke. Also I would stress out about when we would have sex. I let him control when it would happen. And I worried that he wouldn't follow through with the deal. That I wouldn't get the number of times we agreed to. It wasn't even about wanting sex as it was not wanting to feel taken advantage of. So I would ask and push. And I'm more than sure that he became annoyed and uncomfortable with that aspect. I did that in the past too (you can see in the old thread that our sexual relationship was stopped because of me being pushy about when it would happen).

I believe he thinks, and my actions support it, that when we are having sex my only interest in him is sexual and I don't care about him as a friend. And that hurts him. And mixed with him feeling pressured and stressed by that, it makes him lose interest.

I'm honestly okay with us stopping. The sex is great but I can have great sex with someone else. Also part of me thinks/won't be surprised that in three months we are right back here starting again. Because that's the pattern we've been in. I pointed this out to him and he became angry. Now I pointed it out because I was saying hey if this comes up again, we need it to be different. If you're having financial issues and need help, come to me as a friend and if I can help we will figure it out. And if you find you want to sleep with me again, even as a one time thing, come to me and we can figure that out too. But the two things shouldn't be related, because clearly that mix doesn't work for us.

When I pointed out that we could be here again in a few months, because even in October he said never ever again, he said it's different this time because back then he was still attracted to me, but now that's gone too. Thing is, I remembered him saying he wasn't attracted to me anymore back in October too! It hurt me a lot back then (it didn't hurt this time, honestly). Maybe I'm just numb to it because he's said it all before and nothing ever changes for that long. But I even see in one of my replies in the old thread that I pointed out him saying he wasn't attracted to me anymore. So I'm right that he did say that.

My friends think he's a narcissist. It seems like he's willing to say whatever to get what he wants. How do you get someone to believe they'll never be with you again? Tell them you're not attracted to them anymore. Easy. Is it true? Maybe at the time. Honestly I'm at a point where I have a hard time believing anything he says. He'll go out of his way to point out that I'm his best friend sometimes but mostly I think it's when he wants me to do what he's saying (usually involving ending things for good with my ex). It almost feels like a form of gas lighting. He's even admitted this to me, that he's lied about things just to get me to feel a certain way.

I just want to know that I'm not crazy thinking that this could come up again. That it's almost likely to come up again. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually. What do you guys think?

 

I think for me with this relationship it does feed into that people pleasing I tend to do. And for a long time I had a romantic interest in him so I saw it all as the way I could get to at least feel like I was with him somehow. I'm surprised that my romantic feelings are gone. But I know that I don't feel the same. I do however still feel lust for him and also I still see guys as mostly for sex. It's a bit unfortunate that I hooked up with one of the guys in the gay support group I go to, because my goal really was to just try and make friends there. Gay friends. And he and I (the guy from the group) are still friends and not looking to sleep together again, but I think to a degree I would have been proud of myself for keeping it platonic. I still struggle with seeing guys as sex objects as oppose to something more or less. I think that's part of the difficulty in dating guys for me.

At this point I do know I'd go for hooking up with the 19 year old again because like I said I enjoy the sex and lust after him. And I even kind of feel better about it knowing that my romantic interest is gone.

I'm not entirely sure what his deal is either. I've read up on narcissism and it does fit a lot of how he acts and what he does. To me I'm more troubled by the fact that I feel like I can't believe anything he says, because he's said so many things and taken them back. Like saying in October that he wasn't attracted to me anymore, but saying now "this time it's different because I'm not attracted to you anymore." Does that mean he was lying in October and just trying to get me to move on? Does it mean he's being honest now? Does it mean he genuinely lost attraction in October and gained it back and now lost it again? Is he just lying now too? I feel like really I will never really know.

And like I said, he's lied to me before and admitted it to me. This is why it feels like gas lighting in a way. Like in September of 2015, he told me that when he started seeing this 28 year old guy the month before who I disliked, it was in an attempt to replace me. This hurt a lot and just made me angry at him. But later he admitted that he lied about that and him messing with the 28 year old had nothing to do with me whatsoever, he just used it as a lie thinking it would hurt me enough to make me move on from my feelings for him. Honestly both things could easily be true, and they could both be lies, and again I'll never actually know.

I think I just have to accept that this friendship is one where I have to accept that I have to take everything he says with the smallest grain of salt. That I may never know the truth with things he says.

And he does it with little things too. I'll name a song and he's like "I hate that song." Then later, not necessarily the same day, I'll hear him singing it and be like I thought you hated this song? "What? No, I love this song!" Little things like that come up all the time. It happened during the election. He was all pro Trump for the longest time (after Bernie lost), until election night when Trump was winning. Then suddenly he was panicked and said him being pro Trump was all a joke.

 

I'm sure it is a mix of the sex being the best I've ever had and my own insecurities.

I think the fact that I'm not romantically interested in him anymore is a HUGE step. And we've slowly been having more space between us. I'm actually going away for almost a week tonight so that's good.

 

So I talked to my friend again some. He basically said he only said he wasn't attracted to me anymore back in October to push me away. This time he's actually not attracted to me anymore, he says. He said he knows it, offered to explain how. But it doesn't matter. I believed him in October too. So end of the day it doesn't matter what he says. I can't tell if he was lying then or lying now or being honest both times or what. And it doesn't change what he's saying now. Plus I don't know, attraction can change so easily anyway. I've stopped being attracted to someone and then started again. I've also known plenty of people who are now married to people they said years earlier that they were not and never would be attracted to. These things just happen. So end of the day I still won't be shocked if we're right back here in a few months. And I really just can't trust in what he says anyway.

 

I will not be. And yes he can. He did during the months when we stopped before (October through December).

 

Yes, absolutely. And I should focus on that.

But my mind right now is still stuck on the question of assuming he's being honest and not attracted to me right now, is it crazy for me to think that he can become attracted to me again one day? Like if I take everything at surface value of what he's saying and this is really the first time he finds himself not attracted to me anymore, is it possible for it to come back? Has anybody experienced that?