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Old 17th Apr 2017, 05:27 AM   #21
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Re: Update on my friend

My read on this situation is very similar to QR's - namely you put too much pressure on him during a delicate phase of his own coming out/acceptance process.

If you want this to work, you need to develop a very Zen-like attitude where you don't grasp so firmly on the outcome of dating him. You need to surrender your desire to be with him in order to be with him. Do you have any other dating prospects?

I think you should apologize for putting too much pressure on him. At this point he will drive the conversation when he's ready. Continue to be there for him as a friend and let him initiate topics about his sexuality (including his orientation and feelings for you). Occasional prompting from you is OK, but trying to pressure him to admit his feelings is counterproductive as you discovered.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 07:06 AM   #22
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Re: Update on my friend

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My read on this situation is very similar to QR's - namely you put too much pressure on him during a delicate phase of his own coming out/acceptance process.

If you want this to work, you need to develop a very Zen-like attitude where you don't grasp so firmly on the outcome of dating him. You need to surrender your desire to be with him in order to be with him. Do you have any other dating prospects?

I think you should apologize for putting too much pressure on him. At this point he will drive the conversation when he's ready. Continue to be there for him as a friend and let him initiate topics about his sexuality (including his orientation and feelings for you). Occasional prompting from you is OK, but trying to pressure him to admit his feelings is counterproductive as you discovered.
I will apologise for sure. Its so stupid because I have known for such a long time that this was exactly what I should not have done, and after all this time I finally lost it.

With 'if you want this to work', this includes the part in which we become more than friends? Yes, and that is why I feel so stupid. I was always prepared and willing to be zen... but my desire took over on saturday and I really regret it
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 07:48 AM   #23
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Re: Update on my friend

Sometimes our emotions interfere with what we know is a better rational approach, so don't beat yourself up over it. Your human.

Let him digest the things; he is clearly on his own journey. Hopefully each of your journeys will intersect at the right time; but forcing it, as you rationally recognize, will only make it harder.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 08:25 AM   #24
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Re: Update on my friend

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I already know what I want to say to him if he agrees to. I just want him to tell that I think we both should accept that we have feelings for each other. Mine are clear and in the end I want something with him if it is possible. His feelings are confusing for him and since he does not know what those feelings mean, I can't expect anything from him. But I do want to keep hanging out with him like we have been doing for the last couple of months. We do keep chatting the way it was. And just see where it takes us. I truly mean this, I also realise that he is not ready at this moment in life to make me happy. It isn't the right time yet. But if it is true what he said, that I am one of his best friends, we should be able to work this out.
Here is what is jumping out to me the most - you keep saying that he has feelings for you. You cannot force someone to have feelings for you. Even if they've said in the past (and two hours ago counts as the past) that they had feelings for you, if they are not saying that now or saying that they don't, you have to trust their word. You cannot say "but I know you have feelings for me, so just accept it." Doesn't matter what his actions "say." Doesn't matter what he has said before. You want him to have feelings for you because you have them for him. Nothing you've even said from him has made it sound like he has feelings for you. He's said that he regrets not kissing you that one time because you'd be perfect to experiment with. That's it.

You don't know how he feels, so you cannot say that you need to just accept that you have feelings for each other. You can't force him to be ready for anything more than he is ready for. And honestly, having been in your shoes with someone I was in love with who just wanted to be my best friend, so I would always stick to being best friends with the hopes that at some point he'd come around (or assume that he had deeper feelings than he was admitting to) but I was torturing myself really through this. You should give yourself space from him. If you actually hope to be close friends in the end of this, you should give yourself space now to get over your romantic feelings for him.

Never say never, I truly believe that, so I'm not going to say that things couldn't turn around and you couldn't end up together. But he is clearly saying to you that it is not going to happen right now, and unrequited love is just full of daily heartbreak. So do yourself a favor and get some distance from him.

That's my advice anyway. I've been there. I don't want to see you there too.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 09:33 AM   #25
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Re: Update on my friend

@OnTheHighway Thanks man. I just regret it. I don't hate myself for it.

@CameOutSwinging I understand what you say. And you might be right. But I just can't do it.

It is not just that I want him to have feelings for me. Its not just what he said but also the way he said it. It is also because of the situation. There is no single doubt in my mind that he has feelings for me. He said to me that he maybe we have met each other at the wrong moment in our lives. That just says it all. I know that I can't force a relationship, and that this is not the time. But I want to give him time. I am willing to be the friend and always be there for him. It might sound a bit strange, but I am all he has in his situation. I am the only one he has. I have lived with unrequited love for a long time now and I truly believe that if we can both put saturday behind us it won't be all bad.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 09:45 AM   #26
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Re: Update on my friend

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There is no single doubt in my mind that he has feelings for me.
This is going to be the thing you get hung up on. You want to be there for him because you love him. But be honest with yourself, can you really be there for him strictly as a friend? Can you be happy for him when he tells you that he's met a girl, or even a guy, who he likes and has started dating? Who he feels is a perfect fit for him?

Friends, especially best friends, can be happy for the other person in that situation. From the sound of it, you will be heart broken when this happens.

Trust me, I'm so bad at letting go that you could look up the word clingy in the dictionary and find a picture of me. I know this path all too well. You literally cannot know what he is actually thinking. What he is feeling. And convincing yourself that you know he has feelings for you is just bad for you in this situation. Plus even if he does, if he doesn't express it nor act upon it, then you still don't get what you clearly want.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 10:36 AM   #27
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Re: Update on my friend

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There is no single doubt in my mind that he has feelings for me.
This is going to be the thing you get hung up on. You want to be there for him because you love him. But be honest with yourself, can you really be there for him strictly as a friend? Can you be happy for him when he tells you that he's met a girl, or even a guy, who he likes and has started dating? Who he feels is a perfect fit for him?

Friends, especially best friends, can be happy for the other person in that situation. From the sound of it, you will be heart broken when this happens.

Trust me, I'm so bad at letting go that you could look up the word clingy in the dictionary and find a picture of me. I know this path all too well. You literally cannot know what he is actually thinking. What he is feeling. And convincing yourself that you know he has feelings for you is just bad for you in this situation. Plus even if he does, if he doesn't express it nor act upon it, then you still don't get what you clearly want.
I understand but it is just too soon to tell. I thought that this part would come so much later. Although the situation is hard, it is still progress. I'm young, if this ends in tears at least I learned from it.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 03:40 PM   #28
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Re: Update on my friend

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Originally Posted by CameOutSwinging View Post

This is going to be the thing you get hung up on. You want to be there for him because you love him. But be honest with yourself, can you really be there for him strictly as a friend? Can you be happy for him when he tells you that he's met a girl, or even a guy, who he likes and has started dating? Who he feels is a perfect fit for him?

Friends, especially best friends, can be happy for the other person in that situation. From the sound of it, you will be heart broken when this happens.

Trust me, I'm so bad at letting go that you could look up the word clingy in the dictionary and find a picture of me. I know this path all too well. You literally cannot know what he is actually thinking. What he is feeling. And convincing yourself that you know he has feelings for you is just bad for you in this situation. Plus even if he does, if he doesn't express it nor act upon it, then you still don't get what you clearly want.
I understand but it is just too soon to tell. I thought that this part would come so much later. Although the situation is hard, it is still progress. I'm young, if this ends in tears at least I learned from it.
I'm listening to this podcast right now called Nancy. The third episode, "I Had No Idea." You wouldn't believe how topical this is for what you've been going through. Please check it out!
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 07:53 AM   #29
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Re: Update on my friend

Hey Dutchboy20,

As I’ve said before, I think that you are thinking pretty clearly and objectively about this, especially for someone your age.

Of course, where matters of the heart are involved, we can’t always act in a manner consistent with the rational intent in our head – hence why you jumped the gun and pushed him like that. Rationally, you know that that wasn’t a good move and reflected what you wanted, but clearly not what he wants or what is good for your relationship with him. As you are well aware, there will undoubtedly be ups and downs for you, especially emotionally, so you will just have to try to step back from time to time and center yourself as much as possible.

I truly hope he wasn’t too put off by what happened Saturday night and will continue to interact with you. If he want’s time away from you, clearly you should give it to him. Also, though, you probably shouldn’t belabor what happened on Saturday night. After apologizing to him for pushing him like that and for how things went down, I’d recommend that you not continue to talk about that incident unless he initiates the conversation about it.

Just some thoughts.

Stay strong!
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:07 AM   #30
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Re: Update on my friend

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Hey Dutchboy20,

As I’ve said before, I think that you are thinking pretty clearly and objectively about this, especially for someone your age.

Of course, where matters of the heart are involved, we can’t always act in a manner consistent with the rational intent in our head – hence why you jumped the gun and pushed him like that. Rationally, you know that that wasn’t a good move and reflected what you wanted, but clearly not what he wants or what is good for your relationship with him. As you are well aware, there will undoubtedly be ups and downs for you, especially emotionally, so you will just have to try to step back from time to time and center yourself as much as possible.

I truly hope he wasn’t too put off by what happened Saturday night and will continue to interact with you. If he want’s time away from you, clearly you should give it to him. Also, though, you probably shouldn’t belabor what happened on Saturday night. After apologizing to him for pushing him like that and for how things went down, I’d recommend that you not continue to talk about that incident unless he initiates the conversation about it.

Just some thoughts.

Stay strong!
You are right man. I needed some time to accept the fact that what seemed to be possible for a couple of days, isn't going to happen anytime soon. I am a lot less sad now and also see the good things about what happened. What my plan was is a lot more feasible than it was before. I just wanted him too take time to find out about who he is. Be open for other boys too (I dated someone in the meantime which just wasn't the right guy but I was very open to it). Since we kind of acknowledged the fact that we like each other and enjoy spending time with each other, it feels a lot better. I don't have to think about what al those signals meant, they all seem to make sense now.

We have already had a little bit of contact and we both seem to think that we just want eveything to stay just as it was. But if he wants me to stop texting him for a couple of weeks and not hang-out for a while, its fine by me. This has been the only instance in which I pushed him and I trust myself in getting his confidence back. We also planned quiet some events in the next couple of months so we would still see each other every week.

I came to a realisation as well which is a bit difficult to explain. This boy is amazing in many ways but unstable for a relationship. I see now that at this moment in time, I truly don't want a relationship with him. It doesn't feel right. But I do want intimacy with him. I don't mean sex in particular, I just mean something meaningful. That we both say: 'We like each other but want to give each other space'. However I realise it will probably feel like something is missing. And of course, in the end, I hope he will turn into a stable, self-accepting boy that I can have a relationship with.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:41 AM   #31
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Re: Update on my friend

Hey Dutchboy20,

Cool! It sounds like you are learning a lot and doing a lot of growing up with this one relationship/friendship. You seem to be headed in a good direction.

So, it seems like you are working towards just keeping him as a friend for now and hopefully growing that into a close, long-term friendship. That seems like a very good plan, in my opinion. See if you can try to put your romantic feelings for him on the backburner in your mind for now. Dating other guys in the meantime could help with that and fill some of the space that is missing from your relationship with him.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:46 AM   #32
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Re: Update on my friend

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Hey Dutchboy20,

Cool! It sounds like you are learning a lot and doing a lot of growing up with this one relationship/friendship. You seem to be headed in a good direction.

So, it seems like you are working towards just keeping him as a friend for now and hopefully growing that into a close, long-term friendship. That seems like a very good plan, in my opinion. See if you can try to put your romantic feelings for him on the backburner in your mind for now. Dating other guys in the meantime could help with that and fill some of the space that is missing from your relationship with him.
Would you say it is something that I can just tell him?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:58 AM   #33
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Re: Update on my friend

What exactly are you asking? What part of this are you considering telling him?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 09:00 AM   #34
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Re: Update on my friend

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What exactly are you asking? What part of this are you considering telling him?
Telling him that I want to stay close with him as friends but I do hope that at some point we could be together. If not, I can accept that and we will stay friends no matter what.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 09:05 AM   #35
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Re: Update on my friend

Sure. I'd say be upfront with him as possible.

I'd just recommend that you probably just shouldn't discuss your romantic interest in him at this point.

---------- Post added 19th Apr 2017 at 11:17 AM ----------

I'm sorry. Maybe that was a little confusing.

What I was saying was, sure, tell him you want to be friends and maybe even hope to be really good, long-term friends, but I think it you mention any romantic interest in him right now, you cause him anxiety, especially after what happened on Saturday night and given that you know he has to work his sexuality issues out for himself. If he brings it up, I would say that you shouldn't shy away from talking openly and honestly about it, but otherwise, it's probably not a good idea for you to bring the subject up. He might think that you are coming on to him again or trying to pressure him.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 09:50 AM   #36
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Re: Update on my friend

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Sure. I'd say be upfront with him as possible.

I'd just recommend that you probably just shouldn't discuss your romantic interest in him at this point.

---------- Post added 19th Apr 2017 at 11:17 AM ----------

I'm sorry. Maybe that was a little confusing.

What I was saying was, sure, tell him you want to be friends and maybe even hope to be really good, long-term friends, but I think it you mention any romantic interest in him right now, you cause him anxiety, especially after what happened on Saturday night and given that you know he has to work his sexuality issues out for himself. If he brings it up, I would say that you shouldn't shy away from talking openly and honestly about it, but otherwise, it's probably not a good idea for you to bring the subject up. He might think that you are coming on to him again or trying to pressure him.

Just my thoughts.
Chiming in to agree with what Quantumreality is saying. If you feel the need to bury the hatchet, so to speak, and tell your friend that you just want to be friends, that his friendship matters to you more than anything else and so you want to work on your friendship and becoming close friends again, go for it.

If you are thinking of bringing up you and him being in a romantic relationship with each other in the future in any capacity, you will rightly scare him off. I mean, think about it. Put yourself realistically in his shoes. If some guy or girl who said to you clearly that they are interested in being with you romantically and you weren't interested, how would you feel if they said to you "well I'm going to stay close to you because I hope one day you change your mind and you are ready to date me." It is a bit off-putting. Hold onto that hope all you want. Think it privately, write about it in your journal, whatever you need to do for you. But telling him that is the fastest way possible to lose him completely right now.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 10:45 AM   #37
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Re: Update on my friend

I agree guys. I guess it does also not really matter if I tell him. If he wants me at some point, he knows I probably will still be available. Its not like I am ever going to make a move.

The only reason why I considered it is because I want us to be honoust to each other. So if he asks if I still hope or want to be together, I will just say that it is something that I think would be great but that our friendship is most important to me.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 10:52 AM   #38
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Re: Update on my friend

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I agree guys. I guess it does also not really matter if I tell him. If he wants me at some point, he knows I probably will still be available. Its not like I am ever going to make a move.

The only reason why I considered it is because I want us to be honoust to each other. So if he asks if I still hope or want to be together, I will just say that it is something that I think would be great but that our friendship is most important to me.
If he asks you that, then yeah I would say be honest. I would be surprised in a way if he asks that, because I think he wants to avoid that. But yeah, I wouldn't suggest outright lying to him if he asks you something point blank like that.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 05:23 AM   #39
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Re: Update on my friend

Well yesterday we had this drink and it started off already pretty interesting. It was supposed to start at 21:00 but when I arrived there was only one person there. Him. So we were forced to talk to each other for quiet a while but actually I think we both were pretty relax. Of course with tension but there was no way everything would be normal before we talked. During the night he also talked to me from time to time while he could also choose not to.

However, he became extremely drunk (sorry we are students we get pissed twice a week) so I already had a gut feeling that he was not coming to Amsterdam today. So he sent me a message at 13:00 that he just woke up and wasn't going to make it but that he was going to be there tomorrow. So thats actually fine by me (with this hangover it would have been bad idea anyways). I have great confidence now.

Last edited by Dutchboy20; 20th Apr 2017 at 05:23 AM..
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 03:21 AM   #40
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Re: Update on my friend

So I guess this is my final update. Spoke to him just now. He tried to cancel it and asked if we could call instead because he was feeling very sick. But I pushed him a little because we have exams next week and also we are going on a trip together with others next week so it would take long before we could talk. By the way, he wasn't sick at all from what he looked like.

So I basically said what I wanted to say. I told him that I have had feelings for him for quiet some time but never wanted more. Which is true in the sense that I never wanted to risk loosing him but in my heart, of course I want more. I also explained I did not want to push him. But when he said that he regretted to not have kissed me, I thought that he meant that he wanted to be more than just friends. I said that this was the first time I really wanted to have more and I thought that I could make a move on saturday. So I got very confused and dissapointed and by accident pushed him to make a decision about his sexuality but this was not my intent at all. So I apologised. I told him that I really wish we could go back to normal.

So his reaction was pretty ok I guess. He said that he also wanted to go back to normal and that he did not mean anything by his remarks on wednesday. He also apologised for giving me false hope and said it was a mistake. He kind of acted like the whole situation was not too important. He told me that last wednesday gave him the signal that we could easily act normal to each other. He did say he did not see my feelings coming. Which, if its true, is pretty naive I think. I mean, I tried to kiss him, how is that not a clear signal?

Now I feel kind of relieved. My biggest fear was that he wanted space but he did not seem to want this at all. He only asked if I needed space which I think does not solve much since the only reason for me to need space is if I want to take so much time away from him that I won't have feelings for him anymore, and this would destroy our friendship. And I wouldn't even know for sure wether my feelings would dissapear. So I guess I'm just going to have to live with it.

He shut the door that he opened last week. Its painful, but not the end. The way he just acted is very typical for someone who is so insecure about his feelings and sexuality, so it was something I could expect either way. It does not even change that much I guess. He has had these feelings for me for a while but wasn't ready to do anything with them. This most likely has not changed. Now he knows I'm into him, it might make him start to think as well.

I do not really feel heartbreak at this moment. The pain I feel is mostly that I feel like our relationshop has been damaged and it needs some time to be repaired. But even more, I really hate the fact that this was probably a setback in his coming-out process. I have serious doubts wether he will ever trust me again to talk about his feelings. And I have been the only one he opened up to and felt comfortable to talk to. It would kill me if I took it away from him. I care so much about him, I just wish him so much more than this. I wish him to feel secure and proud of who he is but I think the small but meaningful part I was playing in his proces might be over. That is the part that hurts the most. I want to help him and accepting that I can't, it is just so frustrating.
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