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Old 12th Apr 2017, 10:32 PM   #1
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Update on my friend

I have posted many times about this closeted friend of mine that I am so deeply in love with. I haven't thought about much more than him for the last 5 months. And just when I started to accept that it could never happen, well, it kind of happened. I just wanted to write this to update the people that have helped me and gave me advice on this great forum.

So 5 months ago I tried to kiss him but he pulled away. I always thought I misread the situation. He avoided me for weeks but we became pretty good friends for the last 3 months.

So yesterday, I bumped into him at university and went to drink some coffee with him and two other friends. When the others left we started to drink beer. And more beer. And even more beer. But really before we got drunk he started talking. I did not even bring up the topic. It was him. We had this discussion about what being gay means and he has a lot of demons in his head still. But he told me that one thing that really changed everything. He told me he regretted that he didn't kiss me back. That I was that one guy that he would have want to try it with. I could not believe my ears. He created this situation himself in which I guess I was supossed to kiss him but since we are going to a concert on saturday and can easily recreate the situation, I did not want to risk making the same mistakes again because of a rush of blood to the head.

He told me so much other stuff that proved my right about him. He is still a virgin although he pretends to other people that he has had sex a lot of times (always knew this was not the case). He pretented to have a girlfriend at first, he than told me he made it up because he was so in love with this girl. I always thought he used it as a cover-up; well, I was right. He did still deny that he was gay, he said he must be bisexual. I guess I don't really care about that part anymore. He told me he sees me as one of his best friends and those words just mean the world to me.

I realise that this is just the beginning and that there will be many difficulties between us since he doesn't seem to be close to let go of his fears but for me he is really worth a try. I already came this far.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 03:50 AM   #2
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Re: Update on my friend

He is clearly struggling with his sexuality as you suspected. Maybe suggest he gets involved on EC? In the meantime, each of you can learn a lot from one another and it seems he has gotten to the point of keeping the door open to do so.

Good luck!
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 04:33 AM   #3
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Re: Update on my friend

Thanks for updating us. I agree with OTH and would add that alcohol can be a truth serum for people who are questioning. Since you guys had lots of beers he may have opened up because of it. Be prepared for a different mindset without beer. Hope it works out for you.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 04:57 AM   #4
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Re: Update on my friend

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Thanks for updating us. I agree with OTH and would add that alcohol can be a truth serum for people who are questioning. Since you guys had lots of beers he may have opened up because of it. Be prepared for a different mindset without beer. Hope it works out for you.
I understand but it wasn't the first time he opened up to me. He wasn't drunk when he said it, just tipsy. The things he said can't be unsaid, but I realiser that he will probably keep on acting strange.

What is EC?

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Old 13th Apr 2017, 06:48 AM   #5
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Re: Update on my friend

Actually I just saw him again. When I said that I was hot he said: 'thats because of me' but when I tried to talk about yesterday (I just wanted to say that I appreciated everything and that there is nothing to worry about) he said 'yeah me too, but have to get back to work'. Pretty clearly he is confused and now but I don't mind, I have been used to him being hot&cold for a long time now
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 06:54 AM   #6
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Re: Update on my friend

Be patient
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 06:55 AM   #7
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Re: Update on my friend

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Be patient
After 5 months of questioning my own sanity every day, I can have patience
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 08:00 AM   #8
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Re: Update on my friend

Hey Dutchboy20,

I'm both happy and kind of sad for you. I'm happy because I know that he finally told you something directly that you've been wanting to hear from him for a long time.

I'm kind of sad because trying to establish/have a relationship with someone who is still questioning/not accepting his own sexuality means a rocky road still lies ahead for you. Just to sound a note of caution, I would ask you if you are willing to continue to pursue him knowing that it may take him a long time to understand and accept his sexuality and that there is no guarantee that even when he does that he will want to be more that friends with you? Just consider that all the time you have spent trying to pursue him and waiting on him and the future time you are likely to spend for the same reason is time that you aren't spending on finding a boyfriend who is open and accepting of his sexuality and is not afraid to love you.

Regardless, as always, I wish you all the best!
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 09:08 AM   #9
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Re: Update on my friend

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Hey Dutchboy20,

I'm both happy and kind of sad for you. I'm happy because I know that he finally told you something directly that you've been wanting to hear from him for a long time.

I'm kind of sad because trying to establish/have a relationship with someone who is still questioning/not accepting his own sexuality means a rocky road still lies ahead for you. Just to sound a note of caution, I would ask you if you are willing to continue to pursue him knowing that it may take him a long time to understand and accept his sexuality and that there is no guarantee that even when he does that he will want to be more that friends with you? Just consider that all the time you have spent trying to pursue him and waiting on him and the future time you are likely to spend for the same reason is time that you aren't spending on finding a boyfriend who is open and accepting of his sexuality and is not afraid to love you.

Regardless, as always, I wish you all the best!
I understand, but we live in Amsterdam so I guess things are a bit easier here than in some other places, and eveyone knows we are friends. Something serious could happen without other people have to know about it in the beginnning. I am not going to demand anything from him. I knew that even if he was going to like me back (or I guess he always did) that this was the risk and already from the beginning on it was a risk that I was willing to take. I was also not looking for a boyfriend, I'm 20, I got time. This boy is just very special to me and it is the only person I have liked in my entire live. Also, I do feel like he is really trying to accept himself and to make progress.

But I really appreciate it man!

Last edited by Dutchboy20; 13th Apr 2017 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 09:25 AM   #10
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Re: Update on my friend

Cool. Continuing to do this with your eyes wide open is, I think, very important. Clearly you are doing that!

Please keep us updated!
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 10:48 AM   #11
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Re: Update on my friend

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Cool. Continuing to do this with your eyes wide open is, I think, very important. Clearly you are doing that!

Please keep us updated!
I will! Thanks again for everything.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 11:57 AM   #12
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Re: Update on my friend

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiennaFire View Post
Thanks for updating us. I agree with OTH and would add that alcohol can be a truth serum for people who are questioning. Since you guys had lots of beers he may have opened up because of it. Be prepared for a different mindset without beer. Hope it works out for you.
I understand but it wasn't the first time he opened up to me. He wasn't drunk when he said it, just tipsy. The things he said can't be unsaid, but I realiser that he will probably keep on acting strange.

What is EC?
I really hope it works out for you, and I also want to echo some of the concerns pointed out by others. He will probably continue to act strange as he works though this questioning period (such as the latest interaction), so prepare yourself for the roller coaster of his coming out (or not).

EC is Empty Closets, this site.
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It's so amazing to hug my BF and realize that I'm finally home, no more lies, no more regrets.
“fight for what you truly want and value” ― greatwhale
“The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek.” ― Joseph Campbell

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Old 14th Apr 2017, 02:46 AM   #13
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Re: Update on my friend

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchboy20 View Post

I understand but it wasn't the first time he opened up to me. He wasn't drunk when he said it, just tipsy. The things he said can't be unsaid, but I realiser that he will probably keep on acting strange.

What is EC?
I really hope it works out for you, and I also want to echo some of the concerns pointed out by others. He will probably continue to act strange as he works though this questioning period (such as the latest interaction), so prepare yourself for the roller coaster of his coming out (or not).

EC is Empty Closets, this site.
Yeah already witnissing it now. He asked me if we were going to go out tomorrow after our concert which of course I said yes to. Now he says he does not want to go out tomorrow (I did not go out yesterday because I can only affort to go out once a week). It is ok, the dissapoinment is not big now I know he has feelings for me.

EC= empty closets, that is stupid of me hahaha
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 05:22 AM   #14
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Re: Update on my friend

Are you still going to the concert together?

It sounds like he asked you to go out yesterday (Thursday) and you said no because you can only afford to go out once a week. I'm wondering if he misinterpreted that to mean that you don't like him?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 07:46 AM   #15
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Re: Update on my friend

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Are you still going to the concert together?

It sounds like he asked you to go out yesterday (Thursday) and you said no because you can only afford to go out once a week. I'm wondering if he misinterpreted that to mean that you don't like him?
Oh no sorry for the confusion, he asked me and I said yes. But this morning he all of a sudden said that he wasn't going out AFTER the concert anymore. So concert we go to but he did not plan on going out with me anymore. But now he said it was a joke and that we still go out together.

Well I don't think it was a joke and he realised that it would be a mistake not to go out with me but I don't care because as you said; I will have to get used to hot&cold behaviour.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 12:22 PM   #16
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Re: Update on my friend

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Oh no sorry for the confusion, he asked me and I said yes. But this morning he all of a sudden said that he wasn't going out AFTER the concert anymore. So concert we go to but he did not plan on going out with me anymore. But now he said it was a joke and that we still go out together.

Well I don't think it was a joke and he realised that it would be a mistake not to go out with me but I don't care because as you said; I will have to get used to hot&cold behaviour.
This sounds like interest on his part, and you definitely have the right attitude regarding the hold & cold behavior. I think that you should think through how you are going to approach the evening. Are you going to go for the kiss or let him make the first move? Are you going to hold his hand at some point? How will you handle another round of cold feet? If things get physical, how far do you go? Good luck and have fun tomorrow night
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 07:52 AM   #17
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Re: Update on my friend

Well the night was yesterday and it was a complete disaster. It started out great and remained great for most of the night but it ended in the most horrible way I could have imagined.

So the concert was great and we had a lot of fun in the pub we went to afterwards. But at some point we started talking about the things he said on wednesday. And everything started to fall apart from that point on. He all of sudden said that he did not want anything from me, also no kiss. He tried to deny he had feelings for me but I explained to him that after what he said to me I know a 100% sure he has feelings for me. When I said this, it took him like a minute to respond and in the meantime his eyes were filled with tears. This happened several times. I explained to him my feelings for him. He said it would be betetr if we would not see each other for a while. I tried to convince him that he really has nothing to loose and I saw him struggeling with what he wanted. He really did not know what he wanted but fear just took over. He said to me that he felt like I wanted him to make a decision about me and his sexuality right now. But that is just not true. I only wanted to start something with him, see where this would take us. No expectations, no obligations. Of course, in the end I want him completely.

At some point we decided to leave and on the street we continued, partly because I started to become desperate. I now knew a 100% sure that he has real feelings for me and still, it was not going to work out. I kept trying and trying but nothing I said could make up his mind. He started to get pretty vocal and aggresive to bypassers (he was standing in the middle of the street). And he even ripped his earplugs apart which seemed to be pretty expensive. He started to curse and at some point he left. I started crying which he must have seen and heard. I heard him kick something out of frustration or desperation. It was absolutely the most horrible thing I have ever experienced and have not slept at all.

This week made me realise that I am not just in love with him. We are real friends and I realise now how much I might have lost. I probably lost the closest friend I have ever had. Writing this makes me cry.

I thought about everything and I realised we have this drink from our student association on wednesday. Since he did say that he hoped I would return to him once I put this behind me, I know that he still wants me as a friend (hopefully he still feels this way today). So I decided to sent a long text in which I explained that last wedsnesday made me realise how close we have become as friends. And that no matter what we said yesterday, I don't want to loose him as a friend. I said that I think we shouldn't be talking untill wednesday and should think over what we want and what we feel. I asked if he was willing to sit down with me before the drink and talk it through.

I already know what I want to say to him if he agrees to. I just want him to tell that I think we both should accept that we have feelings for each other. Mine are clear and in the end I want something with him if it is possible. His feelings are confusing for him and since he does not know what those feelings mean, I can't expect anything from him. But I do want to keep hanging out with him like we have been doing for the last couple of months. We do keep chatting the way it was. And just see where it takes us. I truly mean this, I also realise that he is not ready at this moment in life to make me happy. It isn't the right time yet. But if it is true what he said, that I am one of his best friends, we should be able to work this out.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 02:08 PM   #18
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Re: Update on my friend

I think that's a good letter to send, and you need to follow up by not putting pressure on him. Sounds like he might go back and forth for a while. Tell him you just want him to be happy. Maybe you could try increasing his comfort levels by watching some (upbeat) LGBT films with him (the ones with happy endings!), or going to a LGBT-friendly club (but maybe not yet a purely LGBT club).

Take care of yourself, sounds like a tough time ahead. But I know from personal experience that you can get over crushes and stay really good friends.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 04:05 PM   #19
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Re: Update on my friend

Hey Dutchboy20,

I’m sorry that things didn’t go so well after the concert.

I think you had things you really needed to say to him but he is not ready to listen/accept it yet. As you know, we can’t force anyone to understand and accept their sexuality. We can only remain supportive while they journey on that path at their own pace.

Could the reason that he got so upset be that you were pressuring him? Trying to FORCE him to look at himself in the mirror, so to speak, and ‘simply’ accept his sexuality as you interpret it? Do you think that is a fair thing to do to him? Can you see why confronting him like that was counterproductive?

I understand that you are frustrated because his sexuality and the fact that he may very well have feelings for you seems obvious to you, but he clearly seems to be in denial and unwilling to accept that about himself at this point in time. All you can really do it back off, be his friend (and ONLY his friend) while he works through this on his own.

It seems that he is taking baby steps, but making progress in understanding and accepting his sexuality. You just have to be patient and supportive. If you push him where he is not willing to go at this point, it seems likely that he'll lash back at you again, as he did last night.

My thoughts. That probably doesn't really help you, though.

Take care! Stay strong!
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 02:44 AM   #20
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Re: Update on my friend

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Hey Dutchboy20,

I’m sorry that things didn’t go so well after the concert.

I think you had things you really needed to say to him but he is not ready to listen/accept it yet. As you know, we can’t force anyone to understand and accept their sexuality. We can only remain supportive while they journey on that path at their own pace.

Could the reason that he got so upset be that you were pressuring him? Trying to FORCE him to look at himself in the mirror, so to speak, and ‘simply’ accept his sexuality as you interpret it? Do you think that is a fair thing to do to him? Can you see why confronting him like that was counterproductive?

I understand that you are frustrated because his sexuality and the fact that he may very well have feelings for you seems obvious to you, but he clearly seems to be in denial and unwilling to accept that about himself at this point in time. All you can really do it back off, be his friend (and ONLY his friend) while he works through this on his own.

It seems that he is taking baby steps, but making progress in understanding and accepting his sexuality. You just have to be patient and supportive. If you push him where he is not willing to go at this point, it seems likely that he'll lash back at you again, as he did last night.

My thoughts. That probably doesn't really help you, though.

Take care! Stay strong!
Well actually, it did man. I do think I realise I pushed him now. It wasn't my intent. It was just that it confused me so much that he said he did not want to kiss me now, that I tried to get an explanation. I made him feel like he said something and had to take responsibility for it.

Although that seems fair to ask from him, I realise that it is indeed counterproductive and I feel pretty guilty about it now. I did not want to make him make a decision, I did not want him to accept his sexuality but I think I made him feel like he should do that because of what I said.

You are right, I have to back off. But that is basically what I have been trying to do for the last 5 months. I tried to give him time and be patient. I just lost control on saturday. His confusion confuses me. I don't think I am very confused anymore. I feel like I now finally know what is going on.

He has feelings for me, and probably feelings that in other cases would have meant that we would want to be together. The world isn't a fair place though and I need to accept that. He recognises those feelings but he either doesn't understand them or he doesn't want to do anything with it yet because he is afraid. I understand I need to back off but I am still the only person in the world he can talk to at this moment. I will explain to him that I have feelings that won't easily dissapear but those feelings also mean that I just want him to be happy. And that we can continue to talk about it whenever he wishes. That he shouldn't think that I only want him to talk about it because I am trying to get him out of the closet. I am just very afraid that he does not trust me anymore and does not want to talk about it anymore. That would make me so sad because I have been the only person he could talk to.

But I see some very difficult problems as well. It has become impossible now to give up hope. He does not understand his feelings for me but I already know that those feelings mean that he is very much attracted to me. So I realise that if we an both keep it together, there is still a reasonable chance that everything will work out the way I have aways wanted it be. But in the meantime, while I support him as a friend, it will be very hard for me to be patient. It will be very hard for me to see him do things and hear him say things which might hurt me. I am the kind of person that gets completely focused on one thing and can't really move on with his life. He has been the centre of my life for a long time now and I feel like this is just the beginning.

I feel like I need recognition on his part that he is not just confused about his sexuality, but also about me. He doesn't have to say that he likes me, because I know that he is really not willing to accept that. If he recognises this, it is kind of ok for me to just let it be.

---------- Post added 17th Apr 2017 at 02:04 AM ----------

Quote:
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I think that's a good letter to send, and you need to follow up by not putting pressure on him. Sounds like he might go back and forth for a while. Tell him you just want him to be happy. Maybe you could try increasing his comfort levels by watching some (upbeat) LGBT films with him (the ones with happy endings!), or going to a LGBT-friendly club (but maybe not yet a purely LGBT club).

Take care of yourself, sounds like a tough time ahead. But I know from personal experience that you can get over crushes and stay really good friends.
Thanks mate. I really won't pressure on him. I am just going to explain that we both have feelings for each other which we can think about for a long time, but we can also just see where our friendship takes us. Let things just be for now.

My dillema is this. If I say that being just very close friends is fine with me, I put myself in the friendzone and it would create a barrier for him to ever come back to me in a romantic way. But if I want the door to remain open, I need to tell him that I just want to keep hanging out and see what happens. But I also realise that if I say this, he probably will overanalyze (he used this word himself this weekend, saying that that is what he does) this and be like: 'but if we see what happens, and something happens, that would mean I like boys, and this would mean I would have to start something with him, and I would have to tell all my friends and family and they might not like me anymore'.

I want both of us to stop thinking and just let things happen. I think this would be the key but I am unsure if he is able to do that. I feel like I am strong enough now to do this.
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