One of the major things that really occupy my thoughts is the cultural shock I'm experiencing in the gay world. I'm originally from the middle east, grew up in a culture where sexual interaction would occur only between a man and his wife. Had no experience in dating at all, not even considered it (girls or boys), didn't even touch my wife during our engagement (may be we know why now :icon_wink). The concept of dating, and having sex with someone that I barely know is not only foreign to me, but also find it repulsive and unrealistic. Deep in me, and most likely affected by how and where I grew up, sex is the cherry on the top of any relationship, it is the deal sealer. There are so many steps, emotional and psychological connections that has to be met before even thinking about any physical intimacy of any sort. Intimacy of the souls .. if anything like that exists any more! Being here in the US for more than 20 years didn't change this in me. Like any human being, I would long for the physical intimacy but I always find it especially arousing if there is an intimacy of the souls first and foremost. Something that the gay culture, or should I say the typical gay culture, in the west is not necessarily abiding to. The bar scenes, hookups, dating, friends with benefits ...etc. are to me like trying the physical connection first before any emotional or intellectual one. It becomes like a test drive of a new vehicle. The human body is more precious than that to me, I won't share my body with a random guy just to seek a temporary physical satisfaction. Agree with me or not, but this is something that I see myself being doomed to find someone who would share those ideals and values with me in the gay world. I feel isolated and alone again, it feels like not belonging in neither worlds, straight or gay :icon_sad:. In the middle east, the gay world that I heard of was nothing but brothels for gay men. I've never heard of love, couples, gay men who are looking to form a family, it is all about sex and lust only. And if someone like me is sticking to his values, he'd be deep in the closet scared of opening up to others. So even in that world, I do not belong. So, if I would like to seek love, intimacy of the souls, strong, solid relationship with another man, am I doomed for not being receptive to what a gay man considers "normal" flirting? am I stuck in my utopia, world of dreams, imagination forever?
Bearheart: I support u in your dreams for real intimacy w another guy. I generally have a rule of meeting a guy for coffee or wine first, before having sex - to decide if we're compatible. 20 yrs ag, I fell in love w a man who I knew thru a social group, & eventually we became lovers. An aspect of the gay culture in the west today, is the ease of hookups thru the various online sites. My own experience is that it's mostly sex addicts who are on those sites, looking for their next trick. Stay true to your values - they are basic to your soul.
The "hookup culture" as you have described it from my perspective is often driven by low self esteem, low confidence and the need for validation; often brought on by all the shame and internalized homophobia they are dealing with - this was certainly my experience on my own journey. Not everyone needs to follow that path. And as I sit here today, I can absolutely related to your desire to have an emotional connection lead to physical intimacy. You have been able to jump over a lot of ambiguity to be where you are. I would have liked to have jump over a lot of the nonesence to get to where you are mentally myself. As you describe, the hookup culture (or as I have previously described as "Gay Purgatory") is expansive. So how can you find a meaningful connection with someone that can lead to being physically intimate? I have a strategy that I used - play the numbers. The more people you meet, however you go about meeting them, the more opportunities there are to find a meaningful connection that can lead to physical intimacy. Particularly given your perception that the odds are against you, you need to beat the odds by increasing your prospects. If you use apps, be extremely clear what your looking for on your profile as there others looking for the same. There are also dating sites that are less focused on hooking up and more focused on actual dating (I found a boyfriend on one). As well, put yourself out there in your every day life. Participate in LGBT activities, get involved in LGBT organizations, and simply live life (I met my husband waiting for a flight at an airport, but we made first contact chatting on an app as we sat 10 feet away from one another). The other suggestion I have is to actively build a social network of gay friends or acquaintances. The more people you meet, the more they can introduce you to other people. So on and so on. It takes time and patience, and as the saying goes, Rome was not built in a day!
Thanks BeingDude. Thanks OTH. It is relieving to know that there are others there looking for the same. Hopefully! It is funny and ironic to know that you were chatting with your future husband OTH not knowing that he was 10ft away from you! I'm planning to meet some older gay men (prime timers group) this Saturday, I'm still using my anonymous identity with them considering my marriage situation, but I'm hoping that they'd be a receptive, supportive, and respectful group.
Actually, I knew he was 10 feet away from me! We were looking directly at each other and then went to our phones and introduced ourselves on the app. We were on the same flight and kept chatting until we took off. We went on our first date five months later!
Just wanted to share a few lines from my readings from "Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender" by David Hawkins, I went through those lines about sexual relations: "Sexuality loses its compulsiveness. Freedom means not just freedom to indulge but freedom not to have sex or orgasm. When we are surrendered, we are not run by the desire for the orgasm. This unleashes creative experiencing and awareness because the mind is not focused on the orgasm itself. To be free from the domination of the desire for orgasm allows sexual experiences that have been described in spiritual literature as “Tantric Sex.” Most Westerners read a little about it and perhaps give it a try, but then they give up because they approach it in a way that leads to suppression rather than to greater freedom. The more truly liberated we become, the more we are motivated by lovingness rather than by desire for gratification. This change of motivation from wanting and hunger to the mutual sharing of pleasure and happiness brings about major changes in the nature of sexual relationships. The intimacy with another person becomes more encompassing and pleasurable. There is greater attunement to the other person’s sexuality and intuitive fulfillment of each other’s styles of satisfaction." and a comment from a couple in the same section of the book: "Amazingly, it just keeps getting better and better. Each orgasm seems better than the last, yet often the lovemaking is so enjoyable that there is no bother to have an orgasm. If it happens it’s okay, and it’s okay if it doesn’t. The intimate time spent together is satisfying and freeing, regardless of any end result." Hawkins, David R.. Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender (pp. 278-279). Veritas Publishing. Kindle Edition. Which is quite intriguing and fulfilling to find that letting go of the desire for sex for sex sake is one of the cornerstones of enjoying the act without being a slave of the desire.
This concept sounds counterintuitive when you first read it; however if it is truly embraced, has a powerful impact on the art of sexual intimacy. I would highlight, however, where you have developed a view that physical intimacy should be predicated on an emotional bond per your first post, I actually believe the concept being reflected here works beyond just an emotional bond and can be applied to causal intimacy as well. I recognize that is not your intent of reflecting on the concept, but I do believe it encompasses all acts of physical intimacy - whether such intimacy is emotionally connected or simply casual sex (I will caveat this by stating I do believe even acts of casual sex always have some form of emotional attachment to them). If you read the quote carefully, even the author reflects the concept in terms of "sexual relationships", thus keeping the door open to how such relationship is defined individually. Whether an emotional connection or purely a physically sexual act, letting go of individualized goal oriented sex and instead focusing on mutual physical expression is a powerful shift in approach and leads to amazing sexual experiences for both partners. I personally embraced this concept along my journey - and I shed the selfishness that is so common in sexual engagement. For my husband and myself, where we both are selfless looking to please the other, it does create a powerful emotional connection along with a powerful physical one - and when I say powerful, it can be truly mind blowing. Great post bearheart!
Thanks OTH. And yes, the author doesn't clearly distinguish between what I was describing before and casual sex. But the concept is intriguing and definitely felt a very close connection and meaning to how I approach this issue. On another topic. For the first time, I finally made an appearance at a breakfast gathering of a prime timers group in a city nearby. Although I kept my name confidential, but at least I shared a social gathering with other gay men! I have a mixed feelings about it though .. didn't feel belonging, it felt odd and unnatural to me. Most of them were nice and considerate. Others were probing to know who I am and where I come from, which didn't feel that comfortable. I'm still questioning whether this is the best venue for me. May be because they are all older than me (at least 10 years difference) and their topics were all geared towards healthcare issues? may be it'd be different another time. I came back from this meeting very depressed and thinking about my friend, as painful as it can get. Chest tightness and no "mindfulness" nor meditation technique seems to help. If only there is a pill or something that can make those emotions calm down .. I'm exhausted .. mentally and emotionally.
Might not be the best environment but don't rule it out completely. (sounds like you were the spring chicken! :eusa_doh You might try some other gay 'activity' groups. Like walking/ hiking, cycling. Cinema/ theatre groups. Meditation groups ... where you can get to know people in a less forced atmosphere? Our brains are hard-wired from the youngest years and that wiring can follow you through your entire life. So you may just need a more relaxed environment to bond with like-minded people. (*hug*)
Certainly had my fair share of experiences like that. Just means you need to keep finding other outlets until you get one that is comfortable for you. It's a bit of a numbers game, meeting people and figuring out how to fit in.
I agree that one has to pick and choose LGBT groups/meetups and find the mix that clicks. Given that this was the first time bearheart went to these types of events, I suspect the discomfort was a form of culture shock coming from a place of internalized homophobia and being outside his comfort zone. I found myself in a similar situation in the past where I was in a group of gay men who are 10+ years older than myself. Once I opened myself to the experience, I realized that they could help me understand what it means to be gay. Now this group is a central part of my LGBT social circle. I would suggest bearheart attend again, probably once he feels comfortable enough to go without an alias.
