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It's just not working in the real world.

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by findingjoy, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. findingjoy

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    I really, really really tried to accept my sexuality. but no matter what i do I am only attracted or look at women in the real world. I really tried checking out guys I just don't get aroused or even attracted. But with women I get attracted, excited but not aroused.

    At home when I internally fantasize, I can nearly orgasm thinking about being with a man. Since I came here and acknowledged these feelings i can EASILY have romantic fantasies too - I didn't allow myself to before. I can lie in bed and without even masturbating have waves of pleasure thinking about just being with a guy, snuggling, flirting, kissing. Just welcoming my imaginary lover home and hugging him and giving him a long kiss. I get super sexually excited thinking about pleasing a guy without even thinking about pleasuring myself.

    But its ALL in my head. I've tried to go to gay bars, meetups, online dating, I just don't find guys attractive in the real world and I don't even get aroused, it feels unnatural and no offense, even revolting. I did have a few gay hookups when drunk years ago but I didn't enjoy them.

    These fantasies and feelings also come when I am super lonely.

    A few months ago when I flirted with a girl in real life i masturbated about her and easily orgasmed, I COULDN"T think of men.

    but when lonely the gay fantasies come up and they are super intense.

    I am just really confused.

    ---------- Post added 30th Apr 2017 at 08:12 AM ----------

    and when I finally accepted myself I WANTED to be gay, it felt SO GOOD in fantasy I wanted to live that way. seriously if i could take a pill now and have me look at men the way i do women and connect that with my internal fantasies I would. But the reality is I just don't feel gay .

    ---------- Post added 30th Apr 2017 at 08:25 AM ----------

    But I don't know if it was just because she liked me and i got excited?

    I was just thinking.. if that 'ideal guy' in my fantasies came to me in real life.. and i could choose between him and anyone male or female i have seen or known in my life...what does my gut and heart say?

    When in lust, no doubt him. but after masturbating it just feels like it was fantasy with no attachment in the real world.

    ---------- Post added 30th Apr 2017 at 08:32 AM ----------

    Can it be an internal pornography? I first started to fantasize about shemale lovers they became less and less feminine and more and male.

    I have heard about pornography escalating this way, can fantasy too? part of it also feels like i can't imagine a woman would want to do what i do in the fantasies so there is a block trying to imagine them...
     
  2. Tomás1

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    I think you're in your head about all this. Funny - you said that yourself. But do u know the implications?

    - you're in a fantasy world
    - u construct stuff like n your head, but not in the real world
    - there could be stuff from your past, which is inhibiting u having intimate relationships
    - u seem to be obcessed about sex. Sex is an expression of the heart. What kind of people are u genuinely attracted to? Find them.
    - you're nervous about this stuff, which does not help u get what u want

    I suggest forgetting the labels of gay, straight, & bi … & go out into the real world & find someone to acrually connect w. Maybe it's a woman, maybe it's a man. The important thing is to find someone to relate to.

    Find someone you're attracted to, & try to create something deeper, more connected. Maybe u won't have sex right away. Maybe it'll take spending some time in bed together … & all of a sudden, when you're no longer in your head, you'll be aroused.

    Good luck. Have fun!
     
    #2 Tomás1, Apr 30, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  3. SiennaFire

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    It sounds like you haven't figured out your type yet, which is why you haven't clicked with a guy. For example, are you into younger guys or older guys? Thin guys or bears? Jocks or nerds? Etc. You need to figure this out before you click with a guy. Once you figure out your type, things will be much easier on the dating front.

    You have shame and internalized homophobia that you must overcome as well. Read The Velvet Rage. Review the blog on healing the shame I shared before. You must absorb and own this material if you want to get over this hump.
     
    #3 SiennaFire, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  4. LostInDaydreams

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    I've replied to your post on my thread, which got me thinking...

    At the beginning of my questioning (before joining EC), I felt that everything was internal too. I didn't see any women that I fancied, and as far as I was aware, I'd never had a crush on a woman. But, then I ran into a female friend that I'd not seen for a while and everything fell into place. :slight_smile: I guess I just wasn't seeing the reality. Could that be the case for you too?
     
  5. silverhalo

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    For me there is more to attraction than just the way someone looks. Im not saying that appearance doesnt matter at all because it does play a part but for me to truly find someone attractive I need to get to know them at least a bit. I need to be attracted to them as a person as well as what they look like. Perhaps you are a bit like that and so when you fantasize in your head you feel comfortable and as though you know the person and this allows you to find them attractive and get excited etc, but when you are out in the real world you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to find someone you like and to enjoy your real life encounters as much as your fantasies. When we put ourselves under this kind of pressure and scrutiny it usually only ever ends up in disappointment.
    How many LGBT meetups did you try?
     
  6. findingjoy

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    then why do i keep looking at women on the street- unconsciously and enjoying it?
    i admit i don't get sexually aroused and i can't even force myself to fantasize about them, but on the other hand it's not something i am forcing myself to do.

    ---------- Post added 1st May 2017 at 05:43 PM ----------

    it could be this too.

    ---------- Post added 1st May 2017 at 05:47 PM ----------

    it could be that when I stopped posting here and tried to 'make it' without the support and comfort of this board that I went back into denial. But right now it feels confusing.

    but .. just when i started to doubt when I was typing this.. your signature zapped into my head:

    “The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek.”

    ---------- Post added 1st May 2017 at 05:48 PM ----------

    it's possible. Sometimes I think it would have been easier to accept and move forward if there was someone to move forward to.

    ---------- Post added 1st May 2017 at 05:51 PM ----------

    that could be the case. I guess i just read so many stories of it just clicking into place

    not enough I guess :slight_smile:
     
  7. findingjoy

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    ...I have seen this in your signature for months now but tonight I think I really understand it. I was just going to type another doubt.. and the doubts do seem real but when I thought of this quote I immediately knew the answer - i haven't really entered the cave yet.

    At this stage of acceptance I happy to fantasize but still fearful to enter..up maybe I was doubtful that it is waiting for me in real life. the thought of the passion I could experience with man is both frightening and exciting. Something we really want deeply can also be very frightening to experience.

    I know the doubts and questions I have are the result of what you said because I was just thinking about the changes I have experienced even at this level of acceptance:

    For years I used to try to either have sex with or masturbate about a woman, I sometimes got off through shear physical effort but when I thought about a guy I would always orgasm with little effort.

    But since accepting myself here and just allowing myself to freely masturbate about guys, my orgasms have become cosmic. Just thinking about being with a man I experience a rush of freedom and joy like unlike anything I have experienced before.

    No woman or thinking about a woman has ever had that effect on me. Not even close if I am honest with myself.

    When I finally just let myself say the words "I am gay" I felt a rush of positive emotion literally unlike anything I have experience in my life. How much clearer does it have to be ? But I still question myself?

    after that, i started to romantically fantasize about being with a guy and it was thrilling and would just happen naturally it seemed way more intense and real than any real life intimacy i had trying to date women.

    it took some work to get that stage to myself. It's going to take a little more to get that way in the real world. There is no turning back, there is no back to turn to. I am gay - what i make of that is up to me. I've got to want this.
     
  8. findingjoy

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    I also know the answer to this. Since I accepted myself and started freely fantasizing and masturbating about guys, women almost never enter into the picture anymore. It will never be 100% gone but its rare and not nearly as intense as when I fantasize about guys.

    Once I start to act and get more comfortable in the real world, the same thing will happen, the habit or 'attraction' of looking at women will fade away, as other gay men have said on this forum once they have reached acceptance.

    This was the main thing that was causing me confusion and some anxiety, and tonight I realize, just like the other veneers of heterosexuality it's going to fade away. Before it caused me doubt, but now after some thought and realization, I know that is what is going to happen. Part of me might have been trying to hold onto that lie, but all the sudden for the first time I have a strong desire for it to want to go away.
     
  9. OnTheHighway

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    It sounds like your now beginning to truly embrace yourself. Welcome to your own journey of finding yourself! Continue to work on managing through the shame and internalized homophobia, build self esteem, self worth, confidence, and learn to love yourself as the person you are!
     
  10. findingjoy

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    Thanks OnTheHighway. I slept very soundly and peacefully last night but when i did wake up I had sweet beautiful thoughts about my sexuality and the potential to be in a romantic relationship with a man.

    Where I have accepted myself - internally and in fantasy, women are 98% out of the picture. They'll never be 100% because very few of us are 100% gay that way, but the attraction or intensity of the feeling about them is, and always has been, and always will be only a 10th of what I feel about being with a man. I know its going to fade in real life too - and maybe I am scared because its the last veneer of heterosexuality.

    I let the fears get to me again and the frustration of not having instant success at LGBT activities. I love being gay internally, its time to start loving it in the real world too.
     
  11. OnTheHighway

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    For what it is worth, I am 100% gay :slight_smile:

    That said, you are on a journey and as the saying goes, "Rome was not built in a day".

    As you also recognize, you are still "scared". Shame and Internalized Homophobia bring on that fear, so continue to confront and work through each.

    Learn to love yourself for whom you are. Build self esteem, self worth and confidence. As you do, you will find real world love becomes easier and easier to embrace.
     
    #11 OnTheHighway, May 2, 2017
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  12. findingjoy

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    Thanks. I see myself as completely gay too, but until i have worked through it those old attractions habits might pop up until i worked through the shame an internalized homophobia.

    Before I just let those lingering attractions to women bother me, but now I realize they go nowhere, they are not tied into my sexuality and I want them gone.. but I am not going to get anxious if they don't. In the past it caused me confusion.

    I have accepted myself here and internally but out in the real world without support, is where I need to build more strength. Recognizing I was still scared is the first step!

    ---------- Post added 2nd May 2017 at 05:03 AM ----------

    I just want to note this to myself. I don't have to escalate my fantasies like a porn addiction might. They are just as intense as when I accepted them. Just simply kissing a guy, being with a guy, making love , just saying to myself I am gay, its just as intense as when I first embraced it and I have never felt that intense about any woman in real life or in fantasy.
     
    #12 findingjoy, May 2, 2017
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  13. SiennaFire

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    The fact that you don't feel attraction is critical to understanding the dynamic. Either this is a self-inflicted head game or you simply appreciate the beautify in women like many gay men.

    ---------- Post added 3rd May 2017 at 08:54 AM ----------

    The fear comes largely from shame and internalized homophobia, from the notion that you don't want to be gay. Once you accept this and begin to fight the shame and IH, you will start to value and seek out the treasure.
     
  14. findingjoy

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    I think I do appreciate the beauty of women and perhaps sometimes are weirdly envious, though I don't have a desire to be one.

    the lingering doubt however is the head game part.

    As I said a few posts up, once I internally accepted myself and for example would consciously masturbate about a guy (rather than rationalize it or 'sneak' a woman into my fantasy at the last moment and convince myself i got off on that) internally I have no sexual arousal or attraction to women and I can dream about being with a man romantically.

    I now realize once I start to get more comfortable externally, externally I won't have this problem anymore.

    I guess I was surprised I was still internalizing homophobia. The important thing is I want to get past this, I want to be gay, I want to enter the cave, I want the treasure. If some came along with a magic pill and said take it you won't be gay anymore, wouldn't take it. If the being with a man is half as good as it has been in my dreams and fantasies it will be the best thing I ever had.
     
    #14 findingjoy, May 3, 2017
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  15. silverhalo

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    Sound so like you are on the right path just got to keep taking those steps :slight_smile:
     
  16. findingjoy

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    Thanks.
    I should be way past questioning or even doubting, but I did a little experiment. I have been avoiding watching pornography because I have heard it can distort tastes, but I looked up some pictures of women and men that I thought were good looking but non-nude -so in workout attire and I admit I have always been wildly excited and attracted by ballet dancers. so i found pictures including non nude photos showing the sexual areas.


    With women:
    no arousal, I thought 'she's really pretty' 'nice outfit' 'i wish i could wear an outfit like that' (not women's clothes but when they wear mens clothes more femininely)
    occasionally she's SO HOT.. but no arousal.
    'butt shots' and 'front shots' in revealing clothing - sensual but no arousal.
    i could easily find a large percentage of women i felt this way about.

    with men:
    much smaller range of men i found attractive but when I did... wow... instant arousal, even just looking at the face an imagining smiling to them (i could immediately start romantically fantasizing, something i never did before I came out here) being intimate.

    'butt shots' and front shots in revealing clothing. example.
    i became very aroused and was easily, not to get graphic, start imagining doing things, just to please them without even pleasing myself.

    I think I am still just nervous about 'looking' in the real world and have to start going to more LGBT friendly environments and get a little more comfortable. In the comfort and safety of my own home with non pornographic images, orientation couldn't be more clear.
     
  17. CameOutSwinging

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    I can relate to a lot of what you're saying findingjoy.

    Throughout this whole process of self exploration, I've had many moments where my mind tries to throw up walls and defend against something that I've subconsciously fought against for so long. I have times where I masturbate thinking about guys and feel guilty afterwards. I have times where no man I see seems to be attractive. Where even sex isn't satisfying. I've had moments where I've hooked up with my ex-fiancee and the sex has been incredible and it makes me think oh maybe I'm not fully gay. I've even masturbated thinking of her after some particularly good hookups, and even watched straight porn because I was in the mood for that.

    But I know the truth is 99.9% of the time my attention goes to men. That I want to have sex with every hot guy I see. That I can see a really attractive woman and know that i have zero desire to sleep with her. Just because I've enjoyed sex with women in the past and may even again in the future doesn't really mean anything. Sex is sex. It's fun and it feels good regardless of who you're doing it with (for the most part). But attraction and romance are very different. I'm still learning romance with men (romance with women has been taught to us since childhood so it isn't hard to "know") but the attraction on a basic level for me always has been and always will be towards men.

    Sorry ladies.

    Findingjoy, I really want to suggest that you reach out to this place called Identity House here in NYC. They regularly run therapy groups, including coming out groups, that are really quite rewarding. I've done three myself, both as a means of becoming more comfortable with my sexuality and as a way to meet other guys who are in similar but different situations. I've made friends through these groups and it really is quite rewarding. Google Identity House for more info, there should be an email or phone number you can reach out to if you're interested.
     
  18. SkyAbove

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    When I was questioning my sexuality, I told a very big, however very comfortable lie to myself. That I just haven't found the ideal guy yet. The dream guy that every girl must dream about. I even spent time with fantasising about how he would look like or what would be his interests. Then I told myself that it was okay that I was not attracted to guys, because if this fantasy guy would show up in my life, I'd just know, that he was the ONE.
    Well, no. For me, the truth were and is, that I was and am gay. I had this false idea about men and incredible fear of being a lesbian. I live in a not so gay friendly country, so I was so confused about my feelings for a long time.
    Then guess what. It's ridiculous, but I've actually met my 'ideal guy' that I made up in my head. He was perfect to that image. Even more fun, that he liked me and wanted to go out on a date with me. And I felt absolutely nothing only annoyance. Zero attraction or emotions towards him. He was holding my hand and asked me out, and this was the very moment I realised I was a lesbian, and the moment when all my fantasies actually shattered and reality sinked in eventually. Just like that.
    Life or the Universe has it's own way to teach you and also has an interesting sense of humour to itself to say the least. I believe you will manage to figure this out.
     
  19. silverhalo

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    Hey I wrote a reply to this and then my computer had a moment and now the words dont seem to be flowing as well as they were but let me have another go.

    I think that joining some LGBT meetups can never be a bad thing. If you can get to a place of complete acceptance with your same sex attraction (for what it is) then that can only be a good thing. I know it is easy to say and not easy to do but the more you can relax and go with the flow the easier it will be for the truth to find you.
     
  20. findingjoy

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    Thanks I think I am going to check it out. I agree about the sex part yes in the past i did have some great sexual experiences with girlfriends but nothing nearly intense as the feelings I have about men.
    but I also know that it kind of grossed me out - for example oral sex i was just trying to please them i never masterbated about giving oral sex to a woman but just thinking of blowing a guy gets me VERY aroused....

    ---------- Post added 14th May 2017 at 03:31 PM ----------

    thanks I am going to to that, i also think some events that aren't gay but are known to be like by gay men might help too.

    ---------- Post added 14th May 2017 at 03:32 PM ----------

    oh yes I had that 'dream girl' in my head and could never figure out why she didn't sexually excite me :slight_smile: