Homophobia in Church

I hear ya. I'm not religious myself but i spent the last half of my childhood raised going to church, and for a time i was into it. It was a southern baptist church and the preacher was very homophobic. He'd talk down about other churches letting homosexuals join the church and how that wasn't the christian thing to do cause god said its not right. I never was sure if he meant no homosexuals even visiting and listening or if he meant no letting homosexuals get baptized. I just remember thinking about the middle aged gay couple down the street whenever he said that. They were such nice ladies, always bringing meals whenever someone in the neighborhood was ill or had a family emergency. I never thought anything of it that it was two women together - they were happy and they were always nothing but nice to everybody. I couldn't fathom why just because they lived together he wouldn't have let such nice people come in and join the church if they'd up and suddenly decided they wanted to.

And that's not even touching all of mom's client friends. When the beauty and the beast movie came out, everyone was hating on it. It hurt listening to them talk about corrupting kids and how Disney shouldn't be shoving that in kids faces and letting them think its okay. And of course mom was right there echoing their opinions. And just the other day i don't remember why she even brought it up - probably ranting about an old church acquaintence she doesn't like - but mom was talking about it on the way into a restaurant, and i remember how it stung when she said that being gay is a sexual sin. I don't argue with her about it though, i just state a fairly neutral opinion - its none of my business, i don't really care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm not wanting to change her opinion and that isn't really my place to begin with. Trying to will just be fruitless and would only cause more pain - and worse, bring suspicion on me.

 

Dear David
It's really hurtful, especially if it comes from those close to you. When I was a teenager my mother used to say that lesbians had been abused by men and therefore hated men. I can remember thinking "well, I'm definitely not a lesbian, then!" I was unaware of my sexuality at the time. Recently, just as I was wrestling with my feelings for another woman and realising, very reluctantly, that I am certainly not heterosexual, my Dad responded to my comments that most of my young son's friends are girls with "Really? Is he a Nancy boy?". It is probably obvious to you from reading this that I am not out to my parents, although I am out to some other significant people in my life, including myself. It is a painful time for me on many levels right now, but knowing that there are good people like yourself out there who can relate in some ways to what I feel is an enormous comfort. I also have a recollection that you, like me, work with young people, and I was horrified to hear an aquiantance of mine, who works in the same field, equate a colleague's being a lesbian with being a paedophile. This particular instance also happened whilst I was questioning and I can tell you that it hurt, because for the first time, I was thinking of myself as a member of the LGBT community. People often make prejudiced comments like this when they don't know anyone gay/ black/ disabled etc. I think that it is harder to maintain such prejudices when you become friends with someone from a minority group....

 

I would like to begin by saying how sorry I am that you had to suffer and endure all of that, but I would urge you not to do so again David, even if it offends when you speak out. Sometimes in life, we need to rock the boat and stand up for what is right and if that means challenging friends, acquaintances, or even people in authority, so be it. Is that not what Christ himself did... many times? In my opinion, you do it not only for yourself, but you do it for Christ and the greater good and at 66 years old you are not a child or young person who needs to know their place.

As Christians it is our duty to emulate the Lord's example and always seek to do justice, to love kindness and walk humbly with our God. (Micah 6:8). We cannot love our neighbour (the greatest commandment) if we are calling them faggots and other offensive words. It astounds me that some Christians think they can get away with things like that and still claim to be faithful.

Will it be hard to confront the issue... to confront people who have always seemed friendly and supportive? Yes, it will, without a doubt, but I would ask you if you are being a good and true friend to them if you say nothing? There have been times when I have had to be very direct with my own friends and tell them when they are wrong, because that's what friends do.


I don't know what denomination you belong to David, but it's worth noting that open and affirming congregations exist in all denominations, in all parts of the world. Maybe you should consider that as you try to confront this issue.

 

The initial shock of being exposed to homophobic comments can create a "deer in the headlights" type situation. Human nature can cause ourselves to simply freeze and not know how to react.

Given the experience you had, if it were to happen again, how would you now react?

 

Good point. You certainly give me cause to reflect on my own silence. As regards my Dad's casually homophobic comment - it was made at the wake following his brother-in-law's funeral - so I bit my tongue - the timing of any challenge matters. Can anyone offer advice on how to encourage a family member to reflect on their homophobia?

---------- Post added 24th May 2017 at 12:23 PM ----------

https://youtu.be/QUQsqBqxoR4. I'm so rubbish with technology that I'm not sure if I copied the link correctly, but this video of the pop song "Brave" by Sarah Bareilles spoke to me! Sorry, I'm not brave enough to sign off my posts with my real name, as you do, David. Maybe one day I'll feel sufficiently comfortable with myself to have the courage to do that?

 

I have found simply confronting the person in a non judgmental way, without any accusations but simply expressing my own perspective is all that is needed.

I had a relative once ask me in a condescending way, "so now that you have come out and are gay, does that mean your going to become one of those activists?". The response, "I am proud to have finally found courage to come out. If at some point I feel compelled to help others whom have struggled given all the heteronormative messaging we are exposed to do the same thing, then so be it. I would not rule it out."

 

David, I am a Christian as well, my friend. Let me first say that I admire the commitment you have shown your wife in staying married to her, and I am warmed by her loyalty to you as well. Here's the thing about a lot of Christians that I know. They read the Bible and know where to find all the answers for everything, but somewhere along the way they end up losing their capacity to love like Jesus. They speak what they sincerely believe is the truth, but they do so in a spirit of hate or indifference rather than in a spirit of love. I also see a disturbing tendency in certain churches to point fingers at all the people who sin in different ways than they themselves do, while all along downplaying their own sinful tendencies. I wish every Christian could walk a year with same-sex attractions so that they could better understand what the LGBT community truly feels. I think this would help them better understand something that they just don't fully understand. I think it would also teach them to extend more grace to others in their orbit who identify as gay.

David, the remarks made in your church are disturbing because they were fueled by hatred. Jesus said even to love our enemies, and yet many members of that church you go to seem compromised by a spirit of hate that won't allow grace to penetrate through. I would honestly seek God's will in the matter, and maybe you and your wife could pray about the possibility of finding another church.

 

I have my own personal experience that is related to this subject matter with the Church community. There was this church right up the street from where I used to live and whenever I would drive pass it, I would see a nice, small crowd of people attending various events there. This particular Easter Sunday, I decided to visit the church for the first time. I sat in the last row right by the door which made it easier to view the church behavior as a whole and easier to exit out whenever I was ready to do so or if I did not care for the service.

Nonetheless, once I was noticed, there were several individuals who approached me to introduce themselves and welcome me to the church. One elderly lady stuck out more so than anyone who approached me and since that introduction, her and I have been good friends since. Since I was a little boy, my mom and dad had this tradition where when attending church, guys wore full suit and tie or blazer with that shirt and tie. This is a tradition that stayed with me well into adulthood.

What I noticed the next time I visit the church service was how the men within the church stared at me as if I was an oddball. It wasn't until one particular Sunday that a member of the board approached me prior to the service and mentioned that the pastor of the church would like for me to meet in his office for a quick meeting. Although I was hesitant, I decided to do so just for the hell out of it. There were a few men on the church board in this meeting and once the door was closed...I was asked if I was gay. I immediately became really pissed off but restrained my composure to see where this was going. I responded with why would they think I was gay since I sat in the back aisle of the church every Sunday alone?? The one guy responded with because of the way you dress so impeccably well which makes them assumed that I must be gay. They went on to inform me that homosexuality is a sin and not allowed in their church.

At this moment, I went off on each and every one of them and swore that I will never attend the church again and then slammed the door on my out. A couple of weeks later, I received a surprised visit from the pastor of the church at my home who apologized continuously on behalf of the church members' behavior. After further conversation with him, I informed him that I will accept the apology from him but I still will not attend the church anymore.

He kept begging me to please just come back one more time as his special guest and if I still feel uncomfortable about being in attendance that I can leave and he will respect that. After giving this visit more consideration, I decided to give the church one more visit. However, to my surprise, all the male members in attendance were wearing suits with white shirts and ties. Before my visit, they would wear khakis and polo shirts. Everyone greeted me with huge smiles on their faces and big hugs welcoming me back to the church. One female member whispered to me that since my last visit, I started a new trend for the men to dress formal in suits and ties when attending church which to her was a good thing.

Although, I moved on from that incident, I have to say that deep down inside of me...I did not view the church the same way because my soul still could not accept the fact of being accused as being gay all because I wore suits each time I visit. Needless to say...although I kept my friendship with the elderly lady over the years, I still made the decision to stay away from that church. The pastor did come by to visit me at home a few times since then but he came to accept and respect my decision. If by chance I may run into him while running errands, etc. he will greet me each and every time.

 

JonSomebody, on behalf of Christians everywhere, I am so freaking sorry for how you were initially treated there. The very idea that a pastor accused you of being gay because you were dressed nice (which is actually how people should be dressed when attending church) is both bizarre and appalling. He should've been more interested in getting to know you and where you are at concerning your walk with Christ. Instead he behaves like a third grader at recess.

You were the bigger man in forgiving him and going back one more time. You responded in grace, which is exactly how followers of Christ should respond. I pray that one day you will find a church home where you feel as loved and welcomed as you deserve to feel.

 

Thank you so much Hunter!!!

While writing my post about this, a lot more incidents came back into play in my mind that I had pushed far back under the rug of my memory bank. I distinctly remember the second time that he visited my home to beg me to give the church another chance. He actually said ....and I quote "I wanna see your sweet ass back in my church on Sunday morning". This among other things made it very easy for me to leave that church and move on.

I really appreciate your very thoughtful response. Take care...JS :smilewave

 

You're very welcome, my fellow brother in Christ! Yeah, that "sweet ass" comment from your pastor crosses the line into VERY CREEPY territory. That man truly is horrifically inappropriate. So I would definitely keep my eyes out for another church, and just be sensitive to where the Spirit leads you.

Also, let us always be grateful that the God we serve is so much better than the followers we often meet who throw around His name.

 

This type of person is the real wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm sorry you were in that situation and I know the feeling. I've heard similar things, not in church, but from people who always attend church and from others who don't. Sadly this mentality is common for some people and is encouraged by some churches and is pure ignorance and cruelty.

Ignorant since most attacks on children, whether it's physical, sexual or emotional, are by straight people. It's a huge lie that gay people are a threat to children and has been perpetuated for decades by some church folks (see Anita Bryant, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Prop 8 campaign, etc). People hear these things from their church leaders, never question them and repeat the lies. This fuels the cruel part.

The cruel part was that he insinuated that he used to beat up gay people and that was ok or maybe it should happen more often to keep us afraid to come out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how I'd understand such a statement. Wish you would have asked him, "What did you do to gay people when you were young?" Put a spotlight on him. Then when he admitted it ask if that's what Jesus would do. I can't believe he used the f word in church too!

When I've been in such situations, I think what hurt me the most was that I didn't stick up for myself and other LGBT people. Sure what they said was insulting, but I once again felt like a coward and that reinforced the shame which is just what they want. Shame thrives in silence which I know all too well.

Perhaps your wife would be willing to speak up in such a situation since she wouldn't be suspected of being gay. Although if they wouldn't suspect her of being gay, why would they of you? Seems like there is a double standard where men are accused of being gay for defending gay people, but not so much for women. I hope some day we're all brave enough to stand up! Ideally you could have a convo with that guy and tell him that what he said is false and cruel, but I know how hard it would be and I'm no example to follow.

What is the official church stance on LGBT people? Are we allowed to get married and hold leadership positions in your church? If not, I wouldn't support or attend it any longer, but I know you said your wife has a connection that complicates the matter. Again, I'm sorry you're in that situation, but glad you can vent here and know we support you! Take care.

 

Hi David, don´t take it personally because people who talk like that do so because they think that gay persons are of another species. They don´t know that good people like you can be a gay. They are just ignorant.

Before my parents knew I was gay they used to stay a lot of stupid stuff. You just have to pity them for their ignorance.

 

I go to a gay Catholic group that started out as a general gay support group and has morphed into something quite different, with a lot of sharing and lively discussion and different viewpoints. Recently we were talking about the mission of the Church to us gay people, and someone pointed out that we have our own mission to the people who are anti-gay. Many of them have had no exposure to gay people, or very limited or negative exposure, and are basing their entire opinion of us on the negative information they get from their church leaders, so the negative things they say are coming from a position of ignorance--not ignorance in the sense of stupidity, but in the sense of lack of knowledge.

If you don't have any other point of reference, you might very well believe all the stereotypes you hear about gay people. But when they come face to face with someone who doesn't live up to the stereotypes and they can see is plainly a good person, they often see a glimmer of light. Our mission as gay Christians may be to be that light.

One of the über-Catholic families in our parish has a son who's gay. He moved away (as the gay kids often do), but has a husband, adopted a couple kids and is a very good, stable guy. While some of the family members still get weird about it, the vast majority are not outwardly judgmental because it's pretty hard to find any other thing about him to prove that being gay made him some kind of immoral person. No, the mom hasn't turned into Debbie from Queer as Folk, but he hasn't been completely rejected either, and the crazier and more stiff-necked members of the family have toned down the anti-gay rhetoric in favor of just saying nothing, because although they're still uncomfortable, they know that being gay doesn't mean he's not a good person.

It's not just about them accepting us. WE have to be willing to accept THEM too. We may not like their viewpoint, but calling people ignorant or bigoted or stupid or homophobic will not make them have some moment of revelation--it will just make them double down on their hatred. Respect their opinion, then allow them to see that it's wrong, and they may change.

That approach doesn't help the teenage kid who's been kicked out of his parents' house because his evangelical parents can't accept that he's gay. But the more we help really change attitudes, rather than make people angrily accept us because they're forced to, the less those things will happen.

I'm a very visible presence at my church--cantor, choir member, and organist for some 30 years now. I'm not noticeably out at my church, although there are a fair and growing number of people who know. And I've caught a few shocked or even hateful looks from a handful of people. But in the end I know that my presence there week after week, singing or playing at multiple masses every weekend, clearly living my life in a positive way, clearly the same person I was before I came out, will go further towards making some of them more open to gay people than any parade or law could do. People's opinions are more likely to change if you respect their right to disagree with you first, rather than just tell them they're wrong. Open-minded straight people have a mission to accept the gays in their church, but we have a mission to be accepting and positive to those who can't accept us, too, and that's how we can effect positive and lasting change.