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Notes I gave to my wife when I came out to her

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by SaleGayGuy, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. SaleGayGuy

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    Hi Folks, I mentioned in my coming out to my wife post that I gave her some information I had complied from the Internet. I hope this may be of some help to those of you who are thinking of coming out to your spouse. My wife found it helpful since it is a lot of information to take in at once and I was a total wreck and could not have remembered all of it.


    Collection of my thoughts in coming to terms understand who I am

    I still love you and see you as my wife & soul mate
    • I realise that whatever I do will hurt you to some extent and I don’t want to do this more than is absolutely necessary, however I must also be true to myself or I will have really serious depression issues, I have already felt suicidal but this has now passed
    • I want to be open and honest with you
    • I did not go into the marriage knowing or even suspecting I was gay
    • Whatever happens in the end I want us always to be friends
    • Don’t want to grow old alone, and I don’t think you do
    • I don’t want to leave you
    • I am not seeing anyone else
    • I could have asked for separation / divorce at Christmas 2011, when we had that difficult time, and you would not have known anything about my inner turmoil, but I want to be honest with you ​
    Midlife triggers
    • Loss of job
    • Feeling inadequate being not able to support us yet
    • Dad’s death
    • Dealing with my poor health and dodgy heart
    • Recognition that I won’t live forever and I have not truly lived for last 35 years​

    Time line of self-realisation
    • Started with increasing knowledge of prostate after researching Dad’s cancer
    • Started seeing references to prostate massage, very common in Japan, as a way of maintaining good prostate health, and also found various prostate massaging implements.
    • Started seeing references role of prostate in male orgasm
    • Came across gay videos mixed in with medical info videos on prostate
    • Watched out of curiosity and became really turned on much more than straight porn
    • Initial disgust that I was attracted to it so used parental locks on Internet to stop it but could not resist. The porn looked so natural to me and clear to see excitement in both guys eyes
    • Feelings of shame, revulsion, guilt, denial, and confusion.
    • Researched more on gay men’s support web sites learned more
    • It has become obvious that most gay men (80%) are not stereo typical raving woofters or effeminate guys: I think guys should act like guys
    • Started chatting on self-help groups with other older guys, some married some not, who realised later in life that they were gay
    • Went to see a councillor a few years ago at a self-help group for gay married guys but could not cope with this and my other health issues
    • My curiosity or wanting to experience gay sex has now reached such an intrusive level that I cannot concentrate on my job fully and it is a real need that must be satisfied. It is now severely affecting my mental state of mind and I have now discussed this with my CBT councillor
    • I don’t want to be sneaking off behind your back and be unfaithful. From all my discussions with other older folk in self-help group those who have realised they were gay/bi later in life and cheated has only made them feel even more depressed and they wished they had not.
    • I don’t want to do anything seedy like sex in a public toilet or outside or in the back of a car, would prefer “Friends with Benefits” or NSA arrangement so as to avoid getting into relationship
    • Don’t want to do anything unsafe
    • Would take my sexual health very seriously and have regular check-ups and get protective jabs
    • Don’t really want to get involved with gay scene – too many effeminate guys I think and I am most likely too old. It seems that in gay circles you are past it by 30.
    • Whilst not coming out in the past few years during this confusion I would not have denied it if you asked am I gay/bi? My answer would have been I am questioning my sexuality and very confused and disturbed by it. Now I would say that I am sure I am Gay.​


    How common is it to be gay or bi
    • This is very difficult to answer because many people will lie depending on who, how, and where they are asked but the following seems to further complicated by the exact definition of gay
    • 5-10% of adults are estimated to openly self-identify as 100% gay
    • Another 7-15% of adult straight identifying people have some same sex experience
    • Some studies however show that 33% of men have had some sort of same sex experience at some point in their life, many it would seem are when they are teenagers and just fooling around it’s seen as part of growing up. I never did this, if I had I may have realised then that I was different. So this figure is not fully representative of those who are now adults
    • Most people realise they are gay when they are teenagers, some even claim they knew as young as 6. Men recognising at an earlier age than women. Some people never realise they are gay until they are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and even 70s with many of this group realising after some sort of midlife crisis or the death of a long term spouse.
    • In the USA it is estimated that 2M married men are actually gay some accept it whilst others not yet. In other countries where gay/bi people are persecuted the figures are even higher up to 16M in China
    • Innate bisexuality, or predisposition to bisexuality, is an idea introduced by Sigmund Freud, based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess. According to this theory, all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development, which includes both external and internal factors, become monosexual while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.​


    I was born this way
    • I was not aware of my true sexuality until midlife crisis brought on by redundancy, Dad’s death, and my heart and other health problems
    • I did not enter the marriage knowing or even suspecting I was gay, Bi, or Curious
    • In hindsight this is probably why I was not a sex pest when you did not want sex​


    I Can’t be changed
    • Extensive research has shown that your natural sexuality is something you are born with just like blue eyes or left handedness and is a completely natural variation of humans and just like eye colour it can’t be changed. Most people realise their sexuality in their teen or twenties but some only realise when they are older that they are gay or bi, this is why people seem to change but in reality they have always been gay and most likely subconscious homophobia suppressed their gay awareness until later in life.
    • Some people who are truly bisexual as opposed to 100% gay or straight have a fluid sexuality moving between gay and straight at various staged in their life whilst other bi people are quite happy flitting between the two as it pleases them.​


    Am I Gay or Bi
    • I think I’m gay rather than bi although I am still confused by this because I ‘m not attracted to other women or fantasise about sex with them
    • When we are out shopping it’s always the men I check out, I don’t even look at girls
    • I used to look at straight porn but now exclusively look at gay porn
    • I have fantasised about having sex with guys and like using sex toys on myself
    • Can’t stand effeminate men, its masculine straight acting guys I am drawn to. It would seem less than 20% of gay men are effeminate.​

    It is not your fault
    • Noting you have done or not done is responsible for me feeling this way
    • Nothing you or anyone else can do in the future can change the way I am
    • The fact you no longer want sex in our marriage has just made me watch porn and straight porn until 6 or 7 years ago
    • This situation is the fault of society and the pressures it places on gay people causing them both consciously and subconsciously to suppress who they really are. It is called a Hetronormative environment. ​


    What have I been going through
    • Shame, Confusion, Depression
    • Suicidal thoughts, all this was too much on top of my ill health
    • Internalised homophobia
    • Feeling bad at not wanting to hurt you, I am dammed if I tell you and dammed if I don’t tell you
    • Over last 8 years I have been through all of the commonly recognised feelings

    Denial: I am not different. No one needs to know, this is private.
    Anger: This is not fair. This should not be happening to me. It messes up everything. People will not like me anymore. They will only see that I am gay and I can’t handle that. Why me? I did not ask for this. I don’t want it. I won’t do it.
    Bargaining: I will only tell a few people.
    Depression: I don’t see a way to be happy. I can’t be gay. I can’t come out. I can’t stand this lie anymore. It is killing me. There is no happy ending for me.
    Acceptance: It won’t be easy, but I will do what I have to do. I want to be happy; I want to be who I really am. I am worth it and people who love me will love me no matter what​


    How you may be feeling
    • Shock, unless you suspected
    • Anger / disbelief
    • Grief at a possible lost future together – it does not have to be that way
    • Worried that I’m about to leave you for a man. This isn’t the case there is no one else.
    • I have had 8 years struggling to come to terms with this, it will take you time too unless you suspected​

    Who have I told
    • Trained sex therapist a few years ago before my heart problems
    • My CBT councillor, he was the first I told I was gay & this was very difficult for me
    • Anonymously my internet based, charity run, support group. I am in touch with other men in their 40s, 50s,and 60s all over the world who have found themselves in this position later in life. They all share the feeling that they don’t want to hurt their wife’s but in not coming out will damage the relationship anyway because of mental health issues including severe depression, suicidal thoughts and actual suicide attempts.​


    Options for moving on. Realistically there would seem to be only 2
    Separation / Divorce... not what I want (33% of couples divorce immediately, 33% after a few years, and the rest opt for some sort of open marriage)
    • Would give each of us a chance of a fresh start – but is this too late in life
    • I don’t want to grow old by myself
    • We have invested a lot in our marriage/house/shared memories
    • Complication of selling house in this environment – we may lose money
    • Would either of us be able to afford somewhere else
    • Complication of both of us working from home
    • I would have to move back in with Mum unless I found a job immediately.
    • Do we continue to live under the same roof but in separate beds
    • I don’t want to shock and stress parents especially yours, they have enough to worry about with your brother
    • The average UK marriage (2011) now lasts 11.4 year, with one in three breaking down by the 15th anniversary.


    Open Mixed Orientation Marriage (MOM)
    • This is where the couple stay together but the wife permits the husband to see other men for friendship and sex, and the husband permits the wife to see other men for friendship and sex.
    • I believe this is the best option and from a certain perspective what we have now. I think this because I think you are Asexual and I am not.
    • Even though our marriage is sexless you still love me for everything else I am so why break it up. You would not be losing sex or sharing that part of me with anyone else man or woman, and since we don’t have sex now you would not be at any health risk even though it would be my intention to only play safe.
    • Difficult and only 20% of couples make this work. Where it is successful communication, total openness, and recognition and acceptance of each other’s physical and emotional needs seems to be the key
    • Would we tell anyone else? Or would it be our secret just like we don’t tell family that we have a sexless marriage.
    • Clear rules – No-Strings-Attached sex only with no relationships – How much detail would wife/girlfriend want to know? Would she want to meet my male friends or even help chose my playmates from the internet
    • Don’t bring any guy into the family home unless the wife/girlfriend wanted to watch two guys get it on
    • Recognise my sexual needs – Just chatting on Internet and watching gay porn is not enough
    • Sauna, NSA, or “Friends with Benefits” – so no chance of relationship developing, anyway I am an old git so who would want me anyway
    • Closed Loop Relationship – fixed monogamous with other married guy with knowledge and acceptance of both wives ​



    Support networks around on the Internet for each of us
    • Attend social none sexual activities
    • Attend Married Gay guys meetings in Manchester
    • PFLAG
    • Straight Spouses network
    • Openly active on Internet self-help groups​



    Sale Gay Guy
     
  2. LateRobert

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    Wow. That is great. Thanks for thinking to share that with us.
    I also have been making notes and letters to give my wife if and when I make the move.
     
  3. Chloe

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    Thank you for sharing your excellent research and thoughts.
     
  4. jimL

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    You are a very methodical man. Your approach is interesting. Everyone's approach to coming out to their wife is different. For me it was sitting on the tailgate or our SUV after a nice long hike and just telling her i am gay! I don't think there is any "one way." For most of us, coming out later in live gives us the opportunity to know our wives very well and have a good since of what the right direction is. But does the struggle ever end? For me it has not. But life is much better, I am now comfortable with who I am.

    I must say I have never understood those that say that they didn't realize that they were gay until the middle or even later in life. It's not that i don't believe you, it just doesn't make since to me. I guess it's the scientist mind that i have. Some studies show, and I tent to believe, that an imbalance in hormones before birth shifts sexual orientation. Since i believe this to be true, i have a hard time understanding one not knowing earlier in life about their orientation.

    So, most importantly, Congratulations on coming out. It's a tough road but one that is necessary for well being.
     
  5. LEZmis4

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    This is an interesting list. I don't have a spouse to come out to, but the list you posted of the different stages...that struck me because it's exactly how I've been feeling for quite some time. I'm stuck between anger and bargaining right now. Thank you...that small part of the post has validated so much for me.
     
  6. SaleGayGuy

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    Hi JimL

    Yep you’re correct I’m a methodical guy also with a science/technology background, I posted my notes in the hope that they may help others.

    As for not realising I was gay until my mid-40s, I agree with you that I must always have been gay but subconsciously suppressed my feelings. My adolescence was messed up in that at the age of 13 and all of the fun taken away, I witnessed a partial decapitation in a road accident whilst cycling to school and seem to have grown up all in one day. In hindsight I should have had therapy at the time but I didn’t and that incident still causes me issues today whenever I go past the spot.

    I always knew I was different from other boys but put that down to this traumatic event and also the fact that I got my ham radio licence at the age of 16 so made a lot of older male friends. If I had not had older friends then perhaps I would have engaged in experimentation with guys and realised then that I was gay.

    As a teenager I did experiment with myself, I made a motorised masturbation machine and a dildo that I used to explore anal play but I did not attach any feelings for guys to either of these experiences. I just thought I was a horny teenager who put his interest in engineering to practical purposes. In my 20s I was aware of gay guys and knew them as acquaintances but I never felt compelled to experiment with them even when they perhaps hinted at it in a roundabout way. Perhaps if one of them had said they wanted me to fuck them it would have forced me to directly confront the reality and made it harder for my internalised homophobia to resist the situation.

    In hindsight it’s a good thing that I didn’t realise I was gay in my early 20s since I would most certainly have had lots of unprotected sex with my best mate from school who turned out gay at university. He sadly died from Aids in the early 90s …. there but for the grace of God go I

    Sale Gay Guy
     
    #6 SaleGayGuy, Apr 3, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  7. Femmeme

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    Wow! I think we should see if we can sticky this thread on the LGBT Later in life forum. It's amazing!
     
  8. SaleGayGuy

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    Thanks Femmeme, I aim to please.
     
  9. BMC77

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    Excellent notes, SaleGayGuy! Like said above, these could be a useful Sticky Thread.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Apr 2013 at 04:40 PM ----------

    In my case, I should have realized as a teenager. Or, at the latest, my early/mid 20s. But denial was too powerful a force, frankly. I have spent 20 years feeling on a gut level an attraction to guys, and then having an intellectual argument that it doesn't mean I'm gay.

    Unfortunately, for many years, the intellectual argument won. And so I believed, at least on the surface, that I was straight, but could have sex with a guy under some circumstances.
     
  10. Musician

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    I think this is beautifully put together. How did your wife take it?
     
  11. HEREIAM2

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    I too might have found the notion that people can discover they are gay in mid-life as odd as it was very clear to me I was attracted to men at around 14. However, despite, being very well aware of having strong homosexual tendencies, having sex with men regularly and plenty of porn, I too remained totally unaware and completely blocked out so much of what being gay is all that about it baffles me. It is called denial and I suppose the OP was simply in a greater state of denial than I was. Congrats on finally come out of the dark.
     
  12. Musician

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    Internalized homophobia can be really powerful. I know that if I went to the local store to buy a Playgirl when I was a kid, I'd be so scared of everything that came with it - the stigma, worried about my parents finding out, being gay, etc. My saving grace was that I was also very attracted to women, hooked up with them, looked at lots of girls all the time in porn, and loved it, so it wasn't really that much of a wasted childhood, in a sexual sense. I had a lot of fun with it :slight_smile:
     
  13. Gaysibling

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    Wow...I was absolutely blown away reading your notes. So many points, so beautifully set out and so clear your love and concern for your wife. Well done. Obviously everyone's circumstances are different e but thiscould almost serve as a "How to" guide for many people. Thank you for sharing this.
     
  14. Italy or Bust

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    That's a great body of work. I do have one comment I'd like to make, and I don't mean in any way to denigrate your accomplishments and your thoughtful approach in helping your wife through this.

    But your comment that, "I think guys should act like guys" is a bit limiting to the reader who may be struggling to come out but who is more effeminate. He might still feel excluded or marginalized by that statement.

    I recognize that these are your notes written for you and your wife, so you are free to express yourself thusly, but I wonder if perhaps any internalized homophobia still remains and if guys that are not uber macho might be a little disconcerting for you.

    Just a thought, and I in no way wish to diminish your method here or give any offense.

    Well done!
     
  15. SaleGayGuy

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    Hi all,

    thanks for the comments. It has taken many months to compile this list after scouring the internet for suggestions from many people including myself. I posted it to give others a starter if they want to do their own list for their circumstances.

    HEREIAM2 & Musician: You are both right about the denial and internalised homophobia it is a powerful thing. As I have said elsewhere as I look back on my life in hindsight I can very clearly recall specific opportunities where I knew a friend was probably hinting at experimentation and I could have chosen to go down the gay route but I didn’t because I didn’t think I was gay. I think the fact that I can recall each of these events so clearly now is that there must have been some subconscious struggle at the time and that has burnt the events into my memory.

    Italy or Bust : Oops, sorry guys I meant to put a note in the opening paragraph re hoping not to offend any effeminate guys reading this, I just cut and pasted my notes for my wife. I have spent 10+ years in the theatre both on-stage and back-stage I have known many effeminate guys both gay and straight, in fact the best man at my wedding was an effeminate married straight actor from the theatre. I myself am not attracted to effeminate guys but my wife informs me that she would like to have one for a friend, like Bryan from “The New Normal” , so perhaps I may change over time.

    Sale Gay Guy
     
  16. Cool Bananas

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    I was reading through another thread and they asked,

    And I never actually replied to the thread to say how good your post was.
     
  17. bingostring

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    Excellent and thought-provoking post ..
     
  18. Bobbybobby99

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    Very nicely done, though I was aware of the fact that I liked boys by around 7 years of age, so all those claims about 6 year olds are probably true :slight_smile: And the studies I have read point to a heavy genetic predisposition for abnormal sexuality to occur, do I lean on the genetic side of that argument.
     
  19. DrWhoFan

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    It's a strange thing coming out later in life - it feels like my life was a puzzle that made no sense until all the pieces very suddenly came together. I have known my now girlfriend superficially for many years, and she told me recently that she told another work colleague several years ago that she was shocked to hear I was married to a man, as she had assumed I was gay. Shame she didn't tell me! I'm afraid I do fit in with a lot of lesbian stereotypes - I wear men's clothes, like sports, and big scary boots! However, I just didn't put everything together. I was very scared to, and very very scared of my feelings. A lot of it was internal homophobia, some was being scared of my parents, some was being very emotionally immature. I didn't get married believing I was gay, despite some early experiences. I certainly wouldn't have done if I had realised.

    Thanks for your post Sale Gay Guy - you are very heartfelt and honest and it's very helpful.
     
  20. arturoenrico

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    My wife wants no part of an open marriage; I wanted to stay together as close friends, which we are. So I will be flying solo at some point soon