Hi gang, I wanted to return to the theme of a split between romantic attachment and sexuality. I'm not trying to back off the gay label. I'm still good with that. But I still have this unresolved issue of my attraction to woman and desire to bond romantically with them. Added to that is the question of what sort of erotic charge I have experienced with women most of my life but seldom with men. That may be a defense of sorts. But I also think there is something more fundamental going on here. And my confusion on this question has played a significant role in keeping my homosexual desires buried. A topic to explore with my therapist no doubt. One very interesting thing I have noticed over the past 10 days, since I first logged on to EC, is my lack of interest in porn. Now that I have allowed myself to accept my homosexuality and discuss it openly with others, I apparently no longer have a need to act out in an obsessive way. That's an obvious sign of improved mental health right there. Interested in hearing your thoughts on any of this. Bill
Not sure I can really help you Bill, but I sure can relate. I too have a need to bond romantically with men and will probably always be that way. Because of that "bond" a sexual attraction is also sparked. With women, I am more visually sexually attracted, but I am missing that romantic, butterflies, feeling. This has also lead me to discrediting my feelings for women. Not sure what I can really do about this...looks like I'm doomed for a lonely life as either sex does not appear to be enough.
I'm not sure if this applies to you or not, but all the while I was just looking at porn or even 'acting out' with other men sexually, I didn't see myself having a relationship with a man. Mentally, I wouldn't allow myself to, given that I was already married to a woman. But when I was separated and allowed myself to consider it, gave myself permission so to speak, it was easy. I could definitely see myself dating and being in a relationship with another man. And then a few months later, I met someone and started to fall in love. And it was overwhelming, because I had not felt that way about anyone before. I came to realize how my wife had felt about me when we met, but that I didn't feel for her. I had always thought that she was 'more' in love with me than I was with her, but I chalked that up to the whole "Men are from mars, women are from venus" thing. But in the end, that wasn't it at all. Because when I fell in love with my boyfriend - who now 5 years later is my husband - I realized what it really felt like to fall in love. And he admitted later that he felt exactly the same way (because he had also been married to a woman for several years before recognizing he was gay). So you never know how your thinking and your emotions might evolve.
Except for my husband I have never had that "erotic charge" to men. I really wanted to. I am a very affectionate person by nature so its hard not to hug/snuggle w/husband even though there is no sexual desire to go with it. Maybe I was attracted to him because he desired me & no one had before. I don't know. No man could have tried harder to please his wife sexually. In this coming out process I have become emotionally closer to my husband but I now would define it as intimate friendship rather than husband-wife intimacy.
What would Freud say about the physical/sexual split? I have no clue. would it altered sexual preference be be something like boys bond with their moms but cannot see them as as sex objects? The inverse for girls?
As I have been reflecting on the question today, I arrive at something very much like what you say, skiff. I think I seek some nurturing quality in women that I find irresistible. But sexually I unconsciously identify with women. In other words, sexually, I don't want to possess a woman, I want to be a woman. I have mentioned only half in jest my idea about vagina envy. I think penis envy does exist, contrary to popular opinion and some feminist criticism. But it exists in both men and women. (And if you don't think it exists in men, then you need another explanation for the obsession in some quarters with penis size). And it has nothing to do with a physical penis; it has to do with authority in patriarchal societies. We learn very early that men possess power and authority and we identify that with the power a man has over our mothers by virtue of his penis. There's a Yiddish word, "pischer," which denotes a little boy's penis. The term is used to describe someone who is a big shot but possesses no real power. As in, "ah, ignore him. He's a pischer anyhow." But I also believe in something I call "vagina envy." And I believe it because I realized that I have it. I came to realize that I had internalized certain qualities I identified with my mother. I know this raises hackles among many gay men, because it suggests a "sissy" syndrome. But, once again, that's off the mark. It's accepting a stereotype and suggesting that there is a problem with men acknowledging a feminine side. If men would spend less time denying their feminine aspects, the world would be a better place. I think I discussed this someone here, but I recently realized that on those rare occasions when I look at straight porn, I have been identifying with the women. Not simply because I wanted the man inside me, but because I wanted to experience sexual pleasure as a woman. This has been a profound realization for me, and I am delighted to have discovered it. I'm on a roll now, so I'll add something somewhat off topic. My interest in psychoanalysis can in a sense probably be traced back to my taking of LSD in the sixties and early seventies. For all the terrors I sometimes faced, I also discovered just how deep the caverns of the psyche run. That was when I realized that I wasn't who I thought I was and had lots to learn about my true self. I think one thing that made me anxious about those sorts of drugs was that there were things I very much didn't want to know, including that I was gay. ---------- Post added 30th Apr 2013 at 06:37 PM ---------- Don't feel doomed to loneliness, browneyedgirl. I'm sure you'll figure out what works for you.
Bill, Every bit of love I had with my girlfriend was real. I loved the friendship, the intimacy, the physical part of intimacy was wonderful. And I did enjoy pleasuring her immensely. But the sex was very one sided -- in that I did not get back the kind of pleasure that I gave. Yeah, well, I'm gay after all. We grew very close in our years together. We communicated frequently throughout the day by text, email. And when we were not together, we talked about every night. It was indeed very romantic, we created an energy and excitement that people could see and feel. I have to say, realistically, that accepting myself as gay, then coming out, was deeply deeply affirmed by the relationships I have/had with men since then. Talking about being gay is one thing. Living gay, being sexual with men is a whole other thing. Actually, its f*cking awesome. I don't have the intimacy I had with my GF with anyone, and I miss that. But then, we knew each other for years. My gay friend, with whom I'm also having sex, I've known him 6 months. He means the world to me, but its not romantic love at all. I believe that will happen in time. And truthfully, I can't wait. In the meantime, dating guys is a lot of fun. Wish you well... Pete
I'm sure you're right about that Pete, and I think my experience of straight sex is similar to yours. I enjoyed it very much, but I'm fairly sure I would have enjoyed sex with a man much more. Because, duh, I'm gay. In my fantasies, anyhow, I experience a greater sense of abandon with men. A sense that it's not a performance; it's the real deal. And I'm sure that what you and Jim say is also true. I think that when I allow myself to start seeing men as sexual and/or romantic partners, I will start feeling a greater charge. I do feel it sometimes with men, and I'm becoming aware of certain traits I find a turn on in men.
