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One step forward..., 2 steps back

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Samson, May 13, 2013.

  1. Samson

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    While discussing with my wife about why I'm thinking that I'm bi and maybe more on the gay side, we started a discussion about our intimacy and she asked me how I felt when we were doing different things.
    Hard to describe in a PG13 way, but It turns out she thinks that 1 of the things we were talking about can only come from a women (Then suddenly, for her, I became much more hetero than bi!). The problem is that, I can ensure you that this act can really be viewed differently in my mind and let's say with a much more masculine counterpart…

    To summarize, at the end of the discussion, she was really happy that, for her, I suddenly seem closer to hetero then gay. I'm afraid that on my side it doesn't change much, and I think I should really did tell her how I saw/felt it, but I didn't. http://emptyclosets.com/forum/images/smilies2/bang.gif

    Since I'm not really sure where to situate myself on the scale between gay and hetero, maybe that is not a big deal if she thinks, for now, that I'm closer to hetero. I guess I would be able to clarify it when it will be clearer in my head.
     
  2. wrhla

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    I have always had a full and satisfying sexual relationship with my wife. But none of that negates the reality that I, as you say, on the gay side of bi.
     
  3. greatwhale

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    This is indeed a prime example of only seeing what we believe!
     
  4. Samson

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    Yesterday my wife met a therapist. The therapist told here that I'm certainly not gay, but probably more an hetero having strange fantasies... When my wife told it to me, I would have expect a relief, but it turn out the inverse... I just don't understand myself!!
     
  5. greatwhale

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    Perhaps therapists shouldn't be prognosticating on people they haven't met...of course the therapist will see you only through her eyes...and what she believes.

    Homosexuality is a "strange" fantasy?? A therapist said that???
     
  6. Samson

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    Well, I'm sure I'm not hetero, that is all what I'm sure for now. No... I'm also sure my wife would really prefer me to not be gay...

    >>Homosexuality is a "strange" fantasy?? A therapist said that???
    I'm not sure my wife presents me as gay... but more as someone who thinks he might be gay.

    In anycases, I have a hell lots of work in searching into do on myself...
     
    #6 Samson, May 14, 2013
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  7. wrhla

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    I think we're in the same place in many ways. In psychoanalytic terms, it's called "splitting." You experience yourself as almost two different people, pulled in two opposite directions. For me, it's as though there's a "straight" self that is attracted to women and a "gay" self that's attracted to men. Intellectually, I can grasp the fact that this makes me bisexual, but that terms doesn't really describe my experience.

    Until I started posting here at EC, I thought I was an oddball in this respect, but I see how many of us share this maddening experience. As a few people have said, I feel that I would rather be simply straight or gay than pulled back and forth between the two. I get psychological whiplash.

    Your wife clearly wants to see only the "hetero" version of you, while you are coming to understand how long the "homo" side is, and how it ain't so simple as just fixing a flat tire.
     
  8. PeteNJ

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    Please -- take this to heart -- let your wife's therapy sessions be for her, yours for you. Sharing that kind of stuff doesn't help either of you -- and I'm with the others, a shrink making a diagnosis in absentia is nuts. Personally, I think it may well be your wife reading into and hearing what she wants to hear.

    Welcome to EC -- we're all working on ourselves. The journey is so worthwhile. It all starts with you looking at yourself, accepting who you are. Then crafting a life that works to make you happy. We've all got each other's backs here.
     
  9. Samson

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    wrhla, You got it so right! I will start seeing a therapist in a short term and hope it will help solve it out... In the mean time, it is really helpful to read the path of others.

    @PeteNJ: Just knowing that I'm not crazy and that other had or are having similar experience is already a lot! Whatever will be the final labeling (not sure a label is needed...) I just don't want to fell guilty again about my thought.
    Thanks
     
    #9 Samson, May 14, 2013
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  10. Hefiel

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    Curious. By therapist do you mean a Psychologist, a Psychiatrist or a Psychotherapist/Life Coach?

    If it's any of the first 2, they should have their license revoked. If it's the latter, I'm generally very skeptical of those because they are not regulated the same way the first 2 are. I'm not aware of the regulations here in Quebec for Psychotherapist, but suffice to say that they don't require the same level of education than a Psychologist, let alone a Psychiatrist.

    And to make a diagnostic on someone he(she?)'s never met... if it's a psychologist or psychiatrist I'd file a complaint. These fools should not be allowed to practice.
     
  11. Samson

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    >>Curious. By therapist do you mean a Psychologist, a Psychiatrist or a Psychotherapist/Life Coach?

    I think it is a Psychologist, but he didn't do a diagnostic in the legal sens, but just a strong hypothesis and it happen that this hypothesis fell exactly in the direction my wife was looking for...

    Let's say that all the joy my wife had yesterday, I felt it on my shoulder like a rock... But today it is better.
     
  12. wrhla

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    I have been in both psychoanalysis and psychotherapy. The analysis was 30 years ago. On my last day, I asked my analyst if he thought I was simply homosexual and needed to accept that fact. He said something like "I don't think I would call you homosexual." So I said "Then bisexual?" He said, "Yes, certainly bisexual, but I can't really say in what sense." Or words to that effect.

    I mention this because I clung to that answer and believed what I wanted to believe, which was that I was basically heterosexual but had some homosexual inclinations. Of course, that's not what he was saying. He was saying that he didn't know, but I wanted an answer I could feel comfortable with, so I went with the one I liked.

    I went through life repeating to myself that I was basically straight and that I could live as straight. And I HAVE sort of lived as straight. I have had sexual relationships with women only and have been completely faithful to my wife for more than 20 years. But I have lately come to see that I'm much closer to gay than to straight and have decided to cut through the ambiguity by identifying as gay.
     
  13. Electra

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    If i could join your interesting discussions on gay or bi?
    I am recently out as a gay man to everyone (at 49 years old), having told selected friends i was bi for many years. Have also only every had sex with women (two girlfriends), altho had no sexual relationships since split with last girlfriend (13 years ago!).
    I think why i have decided at last after many years to ID as gay - is because when I think of women (and when I had sex with them), I can most definitely feel LOVE. I find them sensually and attractive and mysterious... and if life had taken other routes could easily have married and had kids. My best friend is a woman and I often think we know each other more completely than many married straight couples. Women are amazing and I can and do love them. All good. BUT when I look at a man (some men, sometimes), especially a man who I admire personally and who is my 'type' physically and intellectually and emotionally (or sometimes even if they are not), then I feel LUST. Yep I can love them too and all the things above about women could be true for my relationships with men, but it is only men who can take my breath away, can make my pupils dilate and heart beat without any input from my brain at all. That makes me gay (100%?). Yet on many levels (if I look beyond that primal, instinctive thing) I am also I guess bisexual??
    Umm.. in the end I believe we should see all this musing fascinating not confusing and it should make us feel great to be part of the great rich tapestry of humanity - not sad or ashamed or guilty or confused..
     
  14. Samson

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    Hi Electra, physically, I'm more attired by men then by women, but having a family life with almost no social life (a jobs taking a lot of time and 4 kids doing lots of sports), it is really hard for me to really determine if I could have an emotional relationship with a man or it is only a physical thing. What I realized the last weeks, is that trying to label myself as gay, bi or hetero takes me a lot of energy without changing anything in my real life. Well not completely true, since the coming out to my wife help me to stop feeling guilty about my fantasies and it makes me discussed a lot more with my wife and this turns out to be a good thing.

    Now I'm trying to figure out if my pasts depressive moment were caused by the fact that I need a man in my life, not a women or if they were caused by something else.
     
  15. Electra

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    Yep Samson. I agree labels are weird and shifting, confusing things may be?
    Being true and authentic to ourselves is not weird or confusing though, being able to talk to those you love about who you really are - if done with honesty, integrity and an open heart is always good and always feels right, even if it seems hard and difficult contemplating it. If you (we) are more physically attracted to our sex, then we are. Period. Admitting it and saying it is true and authentic. What we choose to do about it is I guess our choice and should have no shame or guilt attached to it??
     
  16. arturoenrico

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    What is love? I love my wife but not in love; I don't have a passion for her. However, women and before adulthood, girls were always my best friends, the people I trusted the most. My most gratifying relationships are with the gals but I don't have the sexual. wrhla, maybe that too is "splitting." I've also been at least two people for like ever. I need to integrate my disparate parts..

    ---------- Post added 21st May 2013 at 02:30 PM ----------

    wrhla,

    I have been with psychoanalysts a good deal and I don't believe they ever like to be definitive. I'm with one now who I have to leave because the therapy has wrecked me. Oh well, wish I had the money back. The gay men's psychotherapy group I just started is great . Last night was the second session for me; it helped me a great deal.

    ---------- Post added 21st May 2013 at 02:31 PM ----------

    I've pretended to be bi as an out but it has been a total failure. It is a another lie for me.
     
  17. Samson

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    Right and right... When the person who cares for you is able to accept you as you are, it is really wonderful, the only dark side is that if ever one day you need to leave her for your and her well-being, it will be even hardier.

    I agree that once you are true and authentic, there shouldn't have shame or guilt, but unfortunately it is not easy to achieve...

    ---------- Post added 21st May 2013 at 07:39 PM ----------



    Arturoenrico, you scared me a little. I'm thinking about seeing a therapist to help me clearing my head... With the (unfortunately bad) experience, how could you detect if the therapist is a good one or not?

    That is really nice that you found a group where you feel good!
     
  18. greatwhale

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    You have to be careful with labels, they can become another kind of closet.

    You chose a label that seems to fit and then you find you need to behave in order to fit the label (which is really only your understanding of what the label means, which may not be what others understand)

    What we are about, here at EC, I think, is the right to love whom we choose, all else is commentary...I call myself gay because it fits who I am, but there are subtleties there too, and things that don't quite fit the definition, and I don't care.

    I am in love with my boyfriend; more so today than yesterday. I don't need to call myself anything other than the one who loves him, that is all I need to know, that is all he needs to know.
     
  19. wrhla

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    [/QUOTE]

    Arturoenrico, you scared me a little. I'm thinking about seeing a therapist to help me clearing my head... With the (unfortunately bad) experience, how could you detect if the therapist is a good one or not?

    That is really nice that you found a group where you feel good![/QUOTE]

    I have had excellent experiences with both a psychoanalyst and a psychoanalytically trained therapist (not quite the same thing).

    And I agree wholeheartedly with greatwhale about labels. they are pernicious traps. which is why I no identify as "whatever" or "????" or "aucun idee" or maybe even "gay with an explanation."

    I screwed up the quote thing, but you can figure it out.
     
    #19 wrhla, May 21, 2013
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  20. arturoenrico

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    Hi Samson,

    My therapist (who is a training psychoanalyst; that is, he is a senior person with great experience) is a great man, very kind and I'm very attached to him. The reason I feel the therapy was destructive for me was that I believe he could not see or could not accept that I was truly gay and it would be better for me to accept that reality than to continue to hide. I think the blurring of the boundaries came to be because he wished it weren't so. I strongly recommend that aside from a therapist having experience with an LGBT population, that from the outset you have a strong sense that he or she can take an affirmative stance towards homosexuality. I think a gay therapist is best. I would recommend to you writings from Dr. Richard Isay, a gay psychoanalyst, who has unfortunately passed away. Also, look into the work of Dr. Jack Drescher, a psychiatrist who is very active in LGBT causes and has been interviewed on TV and written extensively on the subject.