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Where I am, where I think I'm headed

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Musician, May 14, 2013.

  1. Musician

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    I have taken up meditation once again, as I have been doing for the last few years. As I'm calming down, I think I can feel more strongly about my decision.

    Being bisexual is not an easy thing. Unlike when you have choices as far as food or which clothes to wear, I cannot choose one person one day, and another the next.

    I am realizing, that I might be attracted to men, but not romantically. I am very romantically attracted to women. Sexually, I find that I get off more to men sometimes, but only when they are with a woman. Somehow, having a woman there turns me on. When I see two women together, I definitely get turned on, and I even enjoy getting off to them more. Not as fast necessarily, but it feels so nice. So I definitely, absolutely love women sexually, when there is no anxiety involved.

    All of this put together gets me closer to going through being with my girlfriend, whom I love both romantically and sexually. And without the anxiety, I think I can live with myself, how I am. I can be very happy with her in all ways. So I think I can do this relationship. I'll have to explore more, but I'm feeling a little more content about things.

    Cheers. :icon_bigg
     
  2. wrhla

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    Keep up the medication, keep up the therapy, keep up the communication.

    Don't try to get ahead of yourself or to second guess every feeling.
     
  3. Musician

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    Definitely. But I'm feeling pretty good about things.
     
  4. biAnnika

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    Meditation...awesome...I get cranky without it.

    I'm not sure if it's being bisexual that is so hard, but being bisexual in a monogamous relationship...when you're a monogamously-minded person. Lots of people cheat on their partner, and seem to have no discomfort, either with themselves or their sexuality...I find this distasteful and incomprehensible, but it happens. Still others seem to have no trouble being open with their partner, and either have a fully open relationship (either can have sex with whomever they want), open with restriction (you can do it, but you have to tell me ahead of time...or within 24 hours...or only with same-sex partners, or only with opposite-sex partners...or whatever), or a polyfidelitous arrangement (we can both have sex with Ted here, but only him...and he can only have sex with us). These I'm fine with as long as everyone's ok with the arrangement, everyone understands the ins and outs of the arrangement, and everyone follows the rules.

    The problem is that I'm not sure *I'm* ok with participating in these arrangements. I was raised with a strong monogamous ethic, and although I don't have much respect for societal rules or conventions, this is some deeply-ingrained shit for some reason. So (at least for me) *this* is where being bisexual is difficult...not just the bisexuality part, but the bisexual-with-monogamous-mindset part. And it's ripping me apart. There are experiences I want so badly to have; *need* to have to actualize my sexuality. And yet those experiences seem like they could jeopardize my incredible relationship with my incredible partner of 26 (getting close to 27) years. *bangs head on wall*
     
  5. Musician

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    Hey Annika,

    I hear you real loud and clear on this. The hardest thing, in spite of all communication, IMO, is the feelings and potential feelings which may arise. Maybe that is what's causing the pull towards doing it/pull against it? It's so damn hard, especially as mating animals, to just stick in one monogamous situation. Maybe that's why so many of us do cheat?

    I think no matter what, communication, and hearing her feelings and being heard yourself, is the most important thing. I think it can get you far in your relationship with her. There seem to be all sorts of arrangements, but I think only communication and meeting in the same place, ultimately, is what gives you a shot to work out whatever is arising. Sorry I can't help more.

    Also, what's hard for me is dealing with bisexuality in society, and especially my evolving pull to men, the way it definitely was to women before. I don't know if it will change. It's very scary though.
     
  6. gravechild

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    You say you are attracted to men, but only when they are with women? What do you mean by this? That they are physically with a woman, or in a relationship with one?

    Speaking for myself, I can get off to either more-or-less the same at the moment, though with men, there's that feeling of 'taboo' and yes, maybe even an element of danger, but it's genuine attraction and these are just a few ways it's different from my heterosexual preferences.

    I'm also not sure how common it is to 'go back' after you've discovered another dimension to your sexuality, though, I'm not sure how many people would want to. Not to discourage you, but when it became obvious that I was attracted to men during my past relationships, it became difficult to focus on my girlfriends, but you could say the quality of those relationships was already going downhill and my eyes began wandering and the opportunity to explore same sex attractions presented itself then.

    You often hear of newly out gay men describe the process as a second puberty, and indeed, many act like hormone injected teenagers, with what some call a 'slut phase'. It's possible that these new attractions are overwhelming your thoughts, and the fact that you're in a monogamous relationship only makes it more difficult to grow comfortable with these attractions, since you can't freely act on them. It's unfortunate many women have this idea all bisexual men are cheaters, closeted gay men, etc, and therefore stay far away, but, it's important men are able to explore these attractions so confusion, fear, and curiosity doesn't overwhelm them and they go do something impulsive. And not everyone gets the chance to settle in with their sexuality before becoming involved with someone.
     
  7. Musician

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    I think what's tough is that yes, I am not acting out on these feelings. I mean, I am wondering if maybe I would act on it, that they would go away? That I would get tired of it, the way I'm getting tired of women.

    I have a really great relationship in so many ways. I'm very happy with my girlfriend. Just women aren't doing it for me the way they used to, and that's what I'd really love for that joy to come back...
     
  8. gravechild

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    Well, the idea isn't for the feelings to 'go away' after acting on them, but for you to use those experiences and your reactions to them to get a better idea of where you stand. It's kind of tough determining whether or not you like something, or more specifically, what you prefer, if you've never had it to compare with in the first place. And you say women aren't doing it for you, but, are men now doing for you what women used to do and what you'd like to come back?

    In some ways, it's frustrating to read of your situation, since I'm younger, single, and more sure of my orientation, yet have more opportunities to gauge my attractions. At this point, it would be difficult for either of us to go back, and as terrifying as it sounds, the only way to find satisfaction and comfort is to move forward, though that might mean taking different paths.
     
  9. Musician

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    I hear what you are saying, gravechild, about using these experiences to gauge myself. It's annoying me though, because yes, to answer your question, men are doing for me what women used to do, and I'd like women to do it just like that again.

    Sorry my situation is frustrating for you to read. It's frustrating me a little too. I understand about gauging and possibly taking a different path, if that's required for happiness. It's not that I want these feelings to go away. I like them. I just miss my feelings for women. Those were happier days for me.
     
  10. gravechild

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    Heh, I compare myself to a butterfly leaving a cocoon. It sounds cliche, and, excuse the language EC, totally gay, but it's the closest analogy I could find: before, I felt 'dead' inside, felt no desire to chase girls or form relationships, but it's like a fire has been ignited in my life. And sure, my bad experiences with women might play a part, and me becoming more confident in other ways might tie in with becoming confident with my sexuality, but this feeling is quite different, too. I'm still missing that raw, immediate physical reaction many gay men experience, but, I'm comfortable seeing myself in a long term relationship with another man, and there's no shortage of sexual thoughts with men at all.

    At the same time, arousal and attraction towards women is there, too, maybe pushed to the back of my mind at the moment while I explore these new views, taken for granted. Is it the same for you? How is your girlfriend taking this? I saw your post on another forum for bisexuals which I won't name here, so it seems you've given this situation quite a bit of thought.

    There's a bit of a difference between a 'phase' many bisexuals describe, and a complete shift in attractions. Which do you honestly think you're experiencing?
     
  11. wanderinggirl

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    Wow I thought I was the only person who came out to myself through meditation! Right on.

    But yea I had a lot of anxiety when first coming out, so I stopped to meditate frequently. I was sort of dating a guy at the time, and was trying to think about what would really make me happy, and wound up confronting my sexuality. I knew I couldn't be with this guy. I couldn't force myself to love him. I don't know where on the spectrum I stand yet, but I realized what I didn't want.

    You can't talk yourself into a relationship; it's important to meditate on the source of the anxiety, and to be honest with yourself and others. I hope you can find a relationship you really want, whether it is with the person you're currently dating or not.

    The biggest thing I took away from my meditation was forgiveness and acceptance of myself. I have a desire to be straight but since I'm not I have to let this desire go (that old 8-fold path thing, desire causes suffering). You say "I'd love for that [love of women] to come back", but you can't force yourself to change. Sexuality is fluid and if things have shifted for you, then it's okay.
     
  12. Musician

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    Hey wanderringgirl - it's really amazing to meet someone impacted by the dharma in the same way. That stuff makes you see truth, so I think. Scary as hell. Almost makes me wanna cry. I also had to stop meditating for a long time (at the advice of one of my teachers, actually), so I could get some therapy to deal with this. It still is really hard to meditate. Confronting the reality/gravity of the situation is too painful to deal with. But little steps, I guess.

    gravechild - I've been getting that physical/weak at the knees reaction, and I just can't believe it. I almost want to have an encounter with a guy. Still figuring out how to deal with that. But it really feels like I am gay at this time. I'm pretty stunned.

    I don't know how my girlfriend is taking this. She's strong, but whenever I mention bisexuality she wants to leave, so I give her hope of a future, just to keep her going. And I do mean it. But then I step outside, see men, and get horny, and women don't have me have the same feeling. It's a painful/pleasureful reality. I don't know if I'm finding much support from her at this time. And it seems my therapist is encouraging me to stay with her, but I really need him to just hear me more. It's really painful stuff.

    I wish my arousal/attraction to women would come back. It does feel permanent, in the sense that often, when I'm relaxed, I feel like a gay man, and my straight stuff just feels non-existent. It's a harsh truth to confront, when it's there. I can't really use my past at this time to guide me, and as wanderinggirl puts it, I just need to let go of what isn't there right now. And when I do, I'm left with being gay, against everything I always thought.

    I don't know if this is a phase anymore. I do think like things shifted. But also, maybe I just never really allowed myself to explore what was there, if it was there. Also, maybe, just maybe this intensity is temporary while I explore this? I don't know. But I may have to explore at this time. The question is figuring out how, and how to communicate with my girlfriend, especially considering that she isn't too happy about this. Maybe to open the relationship up for her? I hope that after a while, my attractions will subside, the way they did with girls, but I don't know if it feels like that will happen very much at this time.
     
  13. skiff

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    It is amazing what is denied to the conscious train of thought.

    It does come at a price though.
     
  14. biAnnika

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    Some notes.

    Meditation is awesome and can be extremely clarifying. But it can be a time when the mind is very still and the truth can surface...or it can be a time when the mind chatters incessantly...and it spews such garbage most of the time. I have confused that garbage with wisdom before. Just sayin': listen particularly carefully and over a long term for meditational wisdom.

    Second, I'm not an expert, BUT...I'd wager actual money (which if you knew me would make you raise your eyebrows) that if you had sex with a man it would *not* make your feelings go away, and you would feel at least as strongly about the palatability of mm sex as you do now. Real money. Like $100 real (throw-away bets for me are $1...when I'm pretty sure I go up to $5...$20 if there's ego riding on it as well...the only time I'd bet $100 on anything is when there's no real doubt in my mind). These feelings will not go away any time soon...certainly not because of a one-time pressure-release (not for more than a week or two tops).

    Also...never say never. I know you're not saying never...again, just sayin'. It sounds like this is being really hard on both you and your gf, and I'm really sorry for both of you. If this is more permanent than not, and it's taking away from your (and her) sex life and satisfaction, then you need to do something. "Something" doesn't have to mean leave her...but it could mean that. I think she once offered you the chance to experiment...you might take her up on that; watch the feeling subside acutely (my money is on no more than a week or two), and pay attention to whether your attraction to women comes back, hits hard, stays away, etc. Would be educational and might give you a clue as to what you need to do in the medium-term.
     
  15. aliveandwell

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    As a newbie here, I just want to thank you folks with more experience under your belt. Your frankness and honesty are helpful. As in: huh, I'm not alone here. So many others who grapple with the ambiguities of bisexuality and not fitting well into any one box. My sexuality flows along on a continuum it feels like. Sometimes the desire turns more towards women for a while, and then goes down another stream toward men for a while. This concept of romantic love and sexual love is an interesting distinction. I haven't been sexual with a guy for many, many years - and for many years was completely satisfied channeling all that energy into my relationship with my wife. The past two years have been virtually sexless - not by my doing at all. In fact, after a bout with a life threatening illness, I came back full of passion - feeling the most alive and downright ecstatic during lovemaking w/her. It's complicated though - and for whatever reason [menopause and ???] she has no interest. Meanwhile, I'm celibate now - a place I never pictured being this late in my life. It's confusing. She's not interested, but also unwilling to talk about it. I'm left with myself and porn for an outlet, but crave sexual connection with another human - be they female or male. I can feel strongly for both -- although my fantasy life re: men can be quite lusty. Meanwhile, real life it's all on hold and I ask myself, "how the hell did i end up here?" Anyway, good to be here amongst other folks who are looking at "where they're at and where they're headed." Thanks for listening.
     
  16. wanderinggirl

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    EC makes it feel okay to not know anything with certainty.

    BiAnnika, you're definitely right about meditation having dualistic effects that we need to be aware of. I find that the thoughts that come up during meditation aren't the most helpful, but after I meditate things become clearer, because I'm letting myself be. I was aware of what I was holding back on, which allowed me to let go.

    Coming out was a symptom of this because one of my friends was sitting close to me and her arm was next to mine, and then at one point our arms touched. Initially my reaction was to recoil, but having meditated that day I asked myself "why?" and then I realized that it's not because it made me uncomfortable in and of itself; rather, it was that I actually wanted her to touch me more than I would have acknowledged in the past! It made me realize how much of my life was spent avoiding womens' touch, especially pretty or curvy women. In that way, meditation opened my eyes to my own reactions, but not because of the thoughts that came up during the actual practice.