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Quite the Pickle I have Gotten Myself Into

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by link4816, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. link4816

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    Like so many folks here on EC, I have gotten myself in a difficult situation and I could really use some good advice from some wise readers who have been/are currently in similar situations. Here's my story (brief, but not that brief, so I will thank you in advance for reading all the way through):

    I am 30 years old, and I am very much aware that I am gay. I remember finally admitting to myself that I am gay back when I was about 15 years old. I also remember deciding that me being gay would get in the way of me getting many of the things I wanted out of life, so I decided to keep it to myself. I never denied that part of me, I just kept it totally private and secret.

    In high school, I dated just a couple girls and with them had some sexual experiences that were quite exciting and pleasurable. I never had intercourse, though, mostly out of fear that I would get the girl pregnant and become a teen-dad. In my day-to-day life, however, it was clear to me that I was very much attracted to other boys around me. I would obsess over this attraction in my head, but I would never act on it, at least not with other people.

    My first day at college, I met a girl who very quickly became one of my best friends. I was dating another girl at the time, but I told her that I had to break it off, mainly because I was interested in this other girl. I immediately began to pursue the new girl in my life. She was absolutely wonderful, the best person I have ever met. We started dating and grew closer and closer. Our relationship became more and more sexual and we were each other's first. We stayed together all four years of college. We rarely fought and had enjoyable sex frequently. When I was with her, I thought about her. When I was not with her, I thought about other guys, a lot. Did I feel like I was missing something in my life? Of course. I was not fulfilling my true sexual desires. But I had so much else going for me, I rationalized my situation. I admit though, that I was in denial about whether I truly desired an emotional connection with another man. At the time, that desire was weak enough for me to cast aside, especially since I had my girlfriend.

    After college, my girlfriend and I moved in together. We fought about dumb stuff like cleaning up around the house, but we rarely wanted to do much else other than be together. Six years in, I proposed. After seven, we were married. We made the very rational decision to wait to have kids until we finished the first few years of our professional lives.

    Three years into the marriage and ten years into the relationship, I believe that we were both very happy. Admittedly, my true sexual desires were as strong as ever, and in the last three years, I had started involuntarily to have strong urges to establish emotional connections with other men. But I was in a good place in life with real motivation not to upset the apple cart. My wife and I had enjoyable sex fairly regularly (not as much as at first, but still a good amount), and I filled in the gaps (i.e., I satisfied my homosexual urges) privately, online. Kids were on the horizon.

    Four weeks ago, my wife noticed gay pornography on my browser history which had somehow failed to automatically delete as it usually did. She asked me about it, and reluctantly, I told her everything. She was devastated, mostly because I lied to her for ten years, but especially because I married her without being completely honest with her about a major part of who I am. As we stayed up late talking, it occurred to me truly for the first time how much of a selfish, inconsiderate prick I had been, having deceived and manipulated the person I love more than anybody in the world in such a significant way. I told her that even though I am gay, I made a choice to be with her and that I still wanted to be with her. She told me that she loved me, that she chose me over all others; but she also told me that she thinks I may be kidding myself about how strong my feelings for other men are. She knows me so well, I considered that she may be right.

    Since the disclosure, we are still together and we have had many conversations about my sexuality and her feelings of betrayal (which I think I quite justified), and some discussions about what we do now. We have had three sessions with a very good couples/sex therapist who is in tune with all kinds of LGBT/mixed marriage issues. My wife and I have both had a hard time emotionally, but we continue to go to work and save our conversations about this topic for home. We are not ignoring the issue, we are fully processing it as rationally and realistically as possible.

    We both have a choice to make: On my end, do I try to make the relationship work and continue to live the life I have always known, even though it means I have to suppress a large part of who I am? Pro: I get to live spend my life with the most wonderful person I have ever known, somebody who I honestly enjoy having sex with. Con: I would never get to have sex with an attractive man as I have dreamed about since I was a kid, nor would I be able to build a real emotional connection with one without further deceiving my wife (which I will never do again). On her end, does she try to maintain her marriage with a gay man whom she loves? Pro: All her dreams (e.g., kids, growing old together, etc.) could still be fulfilled with the person with whom she has been in a loving relationship for a decade. Con: Even though sex is fulfilling for her, she knows that I will never truly be fulfilled, and she has to always fear that I might act on my sexual urges and possibly fall in love with another man.

    So you see my dilemma (our dilemma really). I would very much appreciate whatever insight you all may be able to provide. Please know that I am not necessarily trying to be swayed either way in my decision. I realize that many people view EC as a place to encourage others to come out completely--I get that. But that can't possibly be the stock answer for everybody. That being said, I will greatly value the opinions of those who have thoughts on these issues that I may not be thinking of. this is the biggest decision of my life, and I don't want to make a huge mistake because I acted too soon without fully considering everything I can. Thank you, in advance, for your help.

    P.S. I wish that there were more resources, like this one, for those in my wife's situation. We have located very few. If you know of any good ones, please let me know.
     
  2. wrhla

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    Last questions first: there's the "straight spouse network." And to some extent PFLAG.

    As to the rest, I find it hard to be very optimistic about your prospects. I suspect that you would both find it difficult to maintain your relationship because you would both feel you were missing something important. But I think you should stick to the couples therapy and talk this through so you both know you have come to the right decision.
     
  3. skiff

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    Hello and welcome.

    It appears you have handled the disclosure very well in addition to great follow up.

    Time for you to make the stay/go decision. This is tough for you as you have not had a gay relationship to compare it to. What you need is input from guys who have lived both.

    For me a gay relationship is exponentially better. It can occur naturally and quickly or take effort and time to find. In my experience he older you get the fewer physically, emotionally, morally, good hearted, good headed guys there will be (my experience).

    You only have half of what you need to know. Seek info from guys who have had successful relationships on both sides of the fence before you make a stay/go decision.
     
  4. TheCloseteur

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    Wow...you and I have quite a bit in common. I'm glad I found you. I think we should become friends and get to know each other. I have a great deal to say on your topic. Thanks so much for sharing yourself so eloquently and honestly :eusa_clap
     
  5. Aldrick

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    Link4816 welcome to Empty Closets. (*hug*)

    You seem to have a very good handle on the situation, and things seem to be going as best as can be expected. But now you're reaching a point where you have to determine what your future will look like...

    I would encourage you to set aside what you want for a moment. You say you love your wife. What do you want for her? If you were not in this situation yourself, assuming that you still had this close bond with your wife, but she was having this issue with someone else - how would you advise her? Would you tell her to stay in the relationship?

    Part of loving someone involves putting their interests above your own. You seem to want to do this by sacrificing your happiness, denying yourself what you really want, but would your unhappiness really make her happy? When you're sixty or seventy years old and look back at this point in your life, do you think you'll look back with regrets? Will you wonder what could have been?

    What if you look back when you're fifty or sixty years old - as some members on this forum have found themselves doing - and realizing that you can't continue to live a lie? What if the desire for an emotional and romantic connection with another man only becomes more desperate over time? You cannot promise your wife that this will not happen, because you don't know how you will feel in the future. You do not know how your life will change.

    How do you think your wife will feel as time passes? Do you think she can simply forget that you are gay, and that you are suppressing it for her? How do you think she will feel when you are late coming home from work? Do you not think that it'll always be in the back of her mind that you could possibly be cheating on her with a man because she knows that she can never truly give you what you really want? Is that really the position you want to put her in - to have her live with the knowledge that if you truly had absolute freedom to do what you wanted without hurting yourself and anyone else - you'd be with another man?

    If you were advising someone else, would you advise them to bring children into this relationship?

    I know this isn't so much advice, but I think these are questions that are important to ask yourself. Especially the first one: If you were not in this situation yourself, but were instead friends with your wife who was in this situation, what would you advise her to do? Would you tell her to stay in the relationship?
     
  6. phoenixverde

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    When I read a story about someone wanting to stay with a hetero partner I usually mention not denying yourself so you can be happy, but your situation is different. You are not denying yourself, you have simply decided that you want to be with a hetero partner that makes you happy.

    I think it all comes down to your wife. You are committed to the relationship, is she?

    Is she willing to let you play with some toys? With a strap on, she can participate in some of your sexual desires. (depending on what you want) That might go a long way to making things easier on you.
     
  7. link4816

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    Thank you all for these great comments. Please keep 'em coming!

    WRHLA:

    Thank you for the suggestions. We did come across the Straight Spouse Network online and my wife red a number of the stories on there. We will look into PFLAG.

    I have considered that if we stay together, both of us will always feel like we are missing something important. That is perhaps one of the biggest cons. As it goes right now, I experience a kind of roller coaster of feelings in this respect. Some days, I am totally content with the life I have. I notice attractive guys, of course; but my desires are fleeting. Other days my desire to have a sexual and/or emotional connection with another man is very strong (it depends heavily on what kind of people I am around that day). More frequently, I feel lonely and depressed that I cannot even share my thoughts about other guys with anybody. This is a little different now, though, because now I can tell my wife about some of these feelings. The problem there is that I suspect my wife is uncomfortable hearing me talking about other guys. She tells me it is not a big deal, explaining, "You talking about guys is no more weird than you telling me you are gay." But I imagine it hurts her feelings to know (1) that I am attracted to somebody who is not her, and (2) that she does not and cannot represent what I find (what my hormones are telling me is) most desirable. With respect to (1), I think this is something that even a heterosexual spouse experiences when the other spouse is attracted to another person--these are issues with monogamy. But (2) and is perhaps the heart of why our relationship is in jeopardy.

    The bottom line (or bottom paragraph in this case) is that I know both of us will feel like we are missing something. But why should we focus on what we are missing when we have SO MUCH that makes our relationship wonderful. Isn't every relationship missing something? Obviously, not having a sexual partner who matches your sexual orientation is a big thing to be missing, but does this lack have to control the situation? I realize that the answer might be yes.

    Skiff:

    I think you are exactly right that I need input from guys who have been in my situation. I am really hoping more guys from EC will offer input, either on this thread or privately. In my real life, I know of one guy. He is the father of one of my old best friends. He is gay, was married to a woman, had two kids, divorced, moved in with his male partner, and raised his two kids plus two more adopted kids together with his partner. I am tempted to call him up randomly even though I have not talked to him in 10 years. But to do so I would have to disclose that I am gay (I have only disclosed this to my wife and to our therapist). There is a significant risk that he might tell my old best friend, and that could force my situation. So, more help from guys on here would be great.

    I am also very curious about your comment: "In my experience the older you get the fewer physically, emotionally, morally, good hearted, good headed guys there will be (my experience)." This touches upon considerations I have about what it would be like if my relationship with my wife ended.

    Basically, I am wondering what my prospects would be if I were to put myself "on the [gay] market" as a 30-year-old. [I could maybe start a whole new thread about this.] How old is 30 in the gay world? Would guys in their late 20s be repulsed by my age? Are most of the best guys most likely already taken? I know that 30 is younger than 40 or 50, but is 30 already pretty late? Is it even appropriate for me to post in "LGBT Later in Life?" There are other considerations along these lines. For example, am I attractive enough to find an attractive guy? A gay friend of mine once told me that I am a 6.5, but that I get extra points for personality. I forgot to ask if he meant that 6.5 includes personality points. How many points do I have without personality? Was he just being nice? Obviously, these are self-confidence questions that ALL PEOPLE have when dating, but I am interested to know how things might be different with respect to gay dating.

    This all ties into my decision from a practical perspective: Why would I give up a wonderful, almost entirely satisfying (see above) relationship with my wife to enter a market that will be full of disappointment? I am attracted to guys who are way hotter than me; I can't realistically expect that they would be interested in me. I am attracted to less hot guys too, but what if because of my age, even the market for less hot guys has shrunk too much?

    The Closeteur:

    It is really fascinating for me to hear from other people who are in a similar situation as me. I would like to hear your perspective on some of these topics I am bringing up.

    Aldrick:

    Your comments are incredibly valuable; I thank you for taking the time to write them.

    Some comments strike at the heart of some of the biggest worries my wife and I have about our relationship if we stay together. My wife's self-respect, confidence, and emotional wellness all would be on the line. I can swear that I am being truthful about my interactions with other men, but she will never really know. Fact: Since the disclosure, I have actually told my wife EVERY secret that I could think of. Nonetheless, how can she fully trust me after I lied to her for so long? If in our relationship, the hardest part for me would be sacrificing a sexual and emotional relationship with another man, the hardest part for her would be feeling insecure about herself and about her reliance on me to be true to her.

    You are absolutely right that I cannot promise my wife that my desire to have a connection with other men will not become more desperate over time. Most likely, it will. But I have made a commitment to my wife, and I made it for a reason: she is everything I want, desire, dream of in a partner, except that she is not an attractive man with an attractive man's body. Any other possibilities have to measured against that! As desperate as my homosexual desires may become, my desire to be with my wife is also desperate. Our marriage and its foundations are to me VERY REAL.

    Your point about bringing kids into the relationship is an important one. Fact: My wife and I would be two amazing parents. Our children would be so very loved. They would be encouraged to be the best of whatever they choose to be, but we would never pressure them to be more than they were comfortable being. Having dealt with my own sexuality the way I have, I would not want my children to get into the pickle I have gotten myself into, and I would try very hard to encourage my children to be completely open and honest with themselves and not deny their feelings. My wife and I would always be completely honest with our children. In terms of the complicated relationship my wife and I have, we would probably wait until the kids were old enough to comprehend basic feelings about attraction, intimacy, and love before we started to explain my feelings about other men, and once they begin to comprehend basic feelings about sexuality, we would tell them more. We would never lie to our children. This is all easier imagined than done, of course; after all, if we stay together, we would probably not tell other people (or maybe very few people) the truth about our relationship, and there would be complications when our children decide to start sharing details about our family life with their friends. In the end, I think that our children would thrive from the love we would shower upon them.

    * * *

    I have more to say, but I have already said so much. I really look forward to more input from you four and others.
     
  8. merlin

    merlin Guest

    Hi,

    I'm in a similar situation (I was forced to come out to my wife about my gay feelings due to circumstances that need no further comments here) and she also indicated that she was willing to continue the relationship, mostly because she (unlike perhaps your wife) is not yet convinced I am truly gay (or bi or whatever). In fact, at one point she said she felt less threatened by another man than another woman, which I found interesting. I have in my mind already pretty much made up my mind that I need to separate and explore my queer nature on my own. I realize that I will destroy the expectations of my wife for a future life and that it also will have financial consequences for her, my children and myself. However, I also realized that after living a lie for more than 20 years (that is just counting the time I'm married), I can no longer hide who I am or rather, what I feel. I want to be with a man I can trust, love and share my most intimate feelings as well as sexual desires. I may never find that person because I'm already past 50, are attracted to young males only and as mentioned by some already, that makes finding such a person difficult, but perhaps not impossible. I think you and your wife need to have an honest talk (with or without a counselor) and discuss your future expectations and why you think a relationship between the two of you will have a fair chance (or not). I mentioned my wife supports me, but I already notice that some feelings of doubt and frustration start to creep in and in fact, she recently had a severe mental breakdown (largely due to work circumstances, but also for a significant part related to "my" situation). Don't underestimate the will of a woman to hold on to a relationship from a bare survival instinct, especially when children are involved, even against all odds. But, that will not prevent feelings of frustration and anger over time. Discussing these options honestly and asking yourself, do you feel you can continue your current life without denying yourself a chance of being who you are?

    I hope you and your wife can find a solution that even if not painless, in the end may satisfy both of you.
     
  9. Candace

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    I'm happy seeing how well this situation turned out for you (and that your wife didn't hit the ceiling when she found out). I'm glad that you went with what you wanted (regardless if it was a she or he.) Bravo :slight_smile:
     
  10. PeteNJ

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    Couple of things.

    IMO, having your wife as your main, if not only, confidante about your sexuality isn't a good idea.

    First, you need a space, a container, where you can talk about all this with 100% openness -- yourself as well as the relationship, and you need feedback, advice, confirmation, affirmation, as well as challenges from others. Think really good friends, other LGBT folk at a support/coming out group, a therapist.

    Secondly, you really need to set boundaries with your wife for YOU! Sharing everything about this with her isn't healthy. You really need to work this out on your own, for yourself. That may mean you stay together as a couple. It may not. But figure that out for you, not in conjunction with her.

    About having kids... to me you seem close, if not in, the grieving stage -- not just about perhaps not having kids with her, but the whole package of the life you expected to live. Completely normal. Its ok to feel that and you should. It IS a different path and journey. IMO, accepting and living out the truth about yourself is the best path to be on to be healthy, happy, well. On a totally rational level, I'll ask you just to catalog in the back of your mind, that single as well as partnered gay men do have kids - both by adoption and surrogacy. (and as an adoptive father, I can tell you -- it's an equally amazing way to have a kid!! ;-)

    About coming out at 30 -- holy crow you are YOUNG! There is a huge world out there ready to embrace you, welcome you, and for you to embrace. What makes a man attractive? Well, if you're only looking for sex, then all the superficial stuff. If you want more, then its about brains, smarts, values, conversation, humor. Probably #1 is confidence.... which understandably you don't feel like you have... it'll get there, I promise you. You're still early on your journey. In terms of looks -- I bet you're more than a 6.5. But it doesn't really matter. You can go to the gym, lose weight/gain weight, dress better, get new glasses/ get contacts, grow a beard/shave a beard, get a different haircut/shave your head.... Its all about what YOU want to do. That's confidence. That's insanely sexy.

    Keep feeling. Keep posting. We're here for you.
     
  11. ormanout

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    While I wish I had been ready to come out at 30, that was not the case. I waited until I was 60 and the kids were mature. Knowing that I had all of the same attractions and interests when I was half my current age that you do at 30, and that I love my wife with all my heart, let me share where that eventually took me.

    I have learned that sometimes loving someone is simply not enough. While my wife and I deeply care for each other, I still need a sexual existence and that is not going to happen with her...or for that matter, any other woman. I am gay and I need to have a man to fulfill my intimacy needs. Over the past week, we have been discussing divorce and she reluctantly and finally given in to that idea. We have been talking about how to handle this with love, mutual support and in a manner that our children will be proud and learn from how we are handling this issue. We discussed the alternative, which is to retreat into our wounded selves and be angry about the changes that are coming, but that isn't who either of us wish to be.

    Unless you are a master of self-denial, you may also get to a place where love is not enough. I found that I could not deny this profound and life-altering part of my identity....and pretend to be someone the world wanted me to be....AND be a loving, giving partner. I think I was always less than what my wife deserved and what I was capable of being. Since coming out and since our agreement last week to dissolve our marriage, I am hopeful, a little sad, and most importantly, completely capable of giving full attention to everyone around me, as well as to myself. Once I no longer needed to keep the little gay man inside of me a prisoner in my own mind, my attention multiplied so much that I could scarcely believe how magnificent I felt. I have truly learned that living as the "whole being" that I was born to be....is far better than the half-being that I had settled for over 40 years ago. In my case, love could not restore the half of me that was being denied.
     
  12. link4816

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    Again, thank you all for your comments. I really do appreciate them. I hang on every word each of you writes and take all your comments to heart.

    I only have time to respond to one tonight since I tend to write essays. But please keep posting, I will respond to them all soon enough.

    phoenixverde:

    You are right, I am not denying myself in the sense that I acknowledge my homosexuality and allow myself mentally to explore its various facets. If I am being honest with myself, though, I am denying a part of who I am in that I am not allowing myself to act on my natural desires to want to be closer, sexually and emotionally, to other men. In that way, even though I am generally happy, I am not totally happy.

    For example, this last weekend we went out to a concert with some friends. My wife and I had dinner first and had a blast eating and playing games with each other (literally, the restaurant had Yahtzee). Before the venue filled up, we hung out together, played around dancing, and laughed a lot. It was like things were the way they used to be before the disclosure. I felt very close to her. But then something happened that would not have happened before. My wife said to me, "I just found the hottest guy in this place." I turned around to see what she was talking about, and sure enough, the hottest guy in the place was standing about 8 feet away. I looked at my wife with wide eyes and confirmed that I agreed he was wildly attractive (I mean, holy god hot; guys like that should not be allowed to walk around with a shirt on). This was a fun moment that, for me, actually made me feel even closer to my wife. But that's not the end of the story. As the live music got going, my wife and I were dancing very close, having a great time. I was very happy. But as the night began to drag on, we both kind of let our attention drift from each other. Right in front of us were some guys who may or may not have been gay. It's possible they were just college buddies; they came in a group of guys. Two of them, though, were dancing very close to each other, would constantly put their arms around each other, would watch each other dance and would respond to each other. I was standing behind them, watching them have a great time together, and I started to feel a kind of longing. I thought to myself, what would it be like to have that kind of relationship with another guy? To have a guy want to dance with me like that, to touch me, and hug me--to desire me. This is where rationality takes a backseat to emotions. It's so ridiculous! Moments earlier, I was standing there, dancing, touching, and hugging my wife, feeling wonderful, and then suddenly I am overwhelmed with envy and a yearning for what I don't have. It took me some time to snap out of it after we left the concert. I told my wife about it the next day, and she felt terrible (duh, of course she did). In her words, "That is just awful." I think she was feeling a mix of sympathy for me and more hurt on her part.

    Folks here might read that story and focus only on the last part about the longing, envy, and yearning. But I don't focus only on that. I can't discount all the wonderful feelings I experienced with my wife that night before those other feelings took over, because the former feelings were as genuine as the latter. This is my WIFE I am talking about, not just some girlfriend, not just somebody I keep around for shits and giggles. She is important to me, way more important than some random guys I run into at a concert. It is painfully obvious that I am missing something, but what I am not missing is a partner, a mate, a spouse.

    That being said, I have to figure out how much these yearning feelings really mean to me, and that is my biggest, most intimidating challenge, and it does scare me.

    Phoenixverde, I basically took your comment and ran with it to share some more of my story, thoughts, and feelings. To get back to your comments, about playing with toys: The thing is, I think I would very much enjoy having anal sex with a man. However, the idea of my wife using tools to act like a man does not seem to appeal to me (though I acknowledge, how could I know without trying, right?). I enjoy having sex with my wife, the woman. I enjoy the way her skin feels, the way she smells, her curves, her hair, her reactions to me, etc. She can turn me on with a single touch. This might make me sound bisexual, but I can say with confidence that is not the case. My wife is a big exception. Maybe I programmed myself to feel the way I do about her, but even if that is the case, it doesn't change the fact that sex with her really does it for me.

    It's funny, since the disclosure, I have found myself wanting to have sex with my wife more than ever before. It's like me coming out to her set my libido on fire. But the libido goes both ways. When I am not with her, I sometimes lose myself in my sexual fantasies for other men. It's like suddenly I am noticing every guy around me who is even remotely attractive. Last week I had to put my book down while riding the train to work because there was a guy standing in front of me whose face, arms, and hair were making me lose my mind. It seems like every time I get on the train now, there is one of these guys! Is this surge of sexual energy related to coming out I wonder?

    Maybe this is just me succumbing to the brainwashing I have used on myself for years as I isolated my homosexuality from the rest of my life, but I wonder if it is a huge mistake to focus too much on sexual desires? I mean, sex is such a small part of life in the grand scheme of things. Frequently, waves of homosexual, sexual desire hit me hard; I do my thing with gay porn and that is the end of that, for a while. It comes and goes. Having sex with my wife also puts those feelings to rest, for a while. Are these chemical feelings a good enough reason to abandon my relationship with my wife and start over with somebody else. Is homosexual sex so mind-blowingly different and better that it would make a total life transition worth it? Even with a boyfriend/husband, wouldn't I still have to put my book down to watch when the ridiculously handsome guy on the train flexes his beautiful arms on the handle above him to steady himself when the train hits a bump?
     
  13. Aldrick

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    I was going to point that out, but yes your increased sex drive is no doubt related to your coming out. A huge pressure and stress has been lifted from your shoulders. You can breathe easier, and stop pretending so much - which takes up a lot of energy. It'll level out in time. Right now you're going through a rather positive emotional high.


    Honestly, I'd like for you to take a moment and put yourself in your wife's shoes. How would you feel if she told you that she would rather be with someone else other than you, that while your relationship is wonderful it is only "almost" satisfying, and that she really doesn't find you all that attractive in the way that you thought. In fact, you don't get her hormones racing the way being with someone else would.

    These are basically things you're saying above in what I quoted. How do you think your wife feels when she hears that?

    I'm not sure where she is at in the acceptance process, but I honestly think you're playing with fire and are going to hurt her as well as yourself. Imagine hearing the above from her, and eventually coming to realize that there is nothing you can do to change it. You are gay, and that is never going to change. There is nothing she can do or say to change or lessen it. If you remain with her this is something that is going to hang over her head forever.

    In my mind - at least if I were in your wife's shoes - I'd begin to grow resentful and angry. Everything looks calm right now, but she might be bargaining, hoping that if she gives you the leeway to "get it out of your system" that things might return to normal. I don't know what is going through her head, but she basically has two choices at this point in time. She can either get angry with you or she can be supportive. It seems that she's chosen to be supportive, but over time I don't think this will last because I think she'll begin to grow resentful that you're not returning the same type of feelings that she has for you.

    ---

    Honestly, I think you're looking at the situation wrong. Your wife is supportive right now. That's an amazing thing. If you both split up there is no rule that you have to stop being friends, that you have to stop depending on each other, that you still can't go out and do things together. It's not as if either of you disappear and go away forever. No, in fact you can commit to remain in each others lives forever.

    She could even agree to have your child. You could end up having a rather unorthodox family, but one that is just as loving as any other. You could meet a man, fall in love, but remain committed friends and in close relationship with your wife. She could meet a man, fall in love, and remain in a close committed friendship with you. You guys could buy houses next to each other and go on about your lives both separately and together.

    There are so many different arrangements that you can work out, but some of these options are on the table only so long as things end on good terms.

    I'm not advocating that you split up. That's a decision for you and your wife to make. However, I just want you to know that you have options, and that it's not like either of you disappear from the others life.
     
  14. Straight ally

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    You have mentioned 2 roads to take, i will offer you another 4 roads to broaden your option and hopefully find a fullfilling solution for you and her:

    opt1: change the kind of relationship instead of destroying it. In other words, stop being husband and wife but dont separate completely, try being close best friends. Actually your relationship would be the same except for not having sex with each other and being able to date other people, but keeping the same mutual support, expressing what ou think having great trust, sharing life moments, loving each other etc... That way you could keep each other in your life and at the same time you could feel sexualy fullfilled and she could be happy for you.~ Pro: sexual fullfilment for both, staying close and being able to love each other. ~ Con: she would have to fight jealosy for an indefinite time.

    OPT2: polifidelity.... "What is that?" You might ask. Imagine these: you stay her husband, but the 2 of you also have a third husband in common (bisexual) that loves you and loves her, whom you love and she love. In other words it would be a close relationship between 3 people (you, her and him) where everyone have sex and commitment to each other.
    ~Pro: everyone is having fullfiling sex, you can keep being husband and wife, a bigger family, more hands, and more money to take care of house and childrens.
    ~con: not everybody feel comfortable within this kind of relationships. Insecurity can raise. People desagreeing and criticizing both your homosexuality and your relationship.

    For more info: search polifidelity at wikipedia and google; read the book opening up by Tristan Taormino.

    Opt3: stay with her. If you want to receive anal sex ask her to penetrate you with a strapon.
    Pros andncons are the same to staying with her but maybe you could get more sexual fullfilment.

    Opt4: think, be creative, figure things out. Find a solution with the help of your wife.

    Whatever you choose i wish you the best of lucks!!
     
  15. EddyG

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    Your situation sounds somewhat familiar. Like you, I am gay, I never really dated women. But then at 24 I met a woman who was great, who I really liked, we went out, for the first time successfully had sex with a woman, and I felt like I was in love. We got married three years later, and had two kids by year 12 of our relationship. Up until then, things were as you are describing your own relationship including sex. Like you, I never told my wife anything at all about my same sex attractions and experiences.

    After year 12 things weren't great at all; no sex, I was miserable, I actually considered leaving her, but with two small kids and her not working I couldn't do it, so I decided to stick it out for the rest of my life, which I thought I could do. But I was really unhappy, depressed, cranky. I was having sex on the side with a friend a couple times a year, but that didn't seem to be enough. I knew that if something happened to my wife I'd come out and my next partner would be a guy.

    Fast forward to earlier this year. For the past 8 years I've been thinking I need to fess up and come clean to her about being gay, and I finally did it four months ago. I'm moving out in a month. It devastated her and she is still reeling. But I reached the point where I couldn't go on. It's not just sex -- I was having sex with a friend. It was a deep need within me to be true to myself, authentic, and the desire to have a real loving relationship with a guy.

    So I guess this is a long way of saying that while my wife didn't know I was gay, like you at age 30 I was in love with her, having good sex, and thought it would last forever. What I've learned is that we don't always control our feelings. The fact that your wife knows now is actually a good thing, because she is aware of the entire situation.

    As for being 30, as mentioned above I wouldn't be concerned about that at all. I thought being 54 was way to old to meet anyone and was actually resigned to being alone forever. But in fact it turns out there are a lot of out gay guys in their 40s and 50s who are looking for relationships. I lucked into one of them a couple months after coming out and am in a wonderful relationship I could only have dreamed of in the past.

    One question for you that I'm asking myself (and my wife is asking me) and I don't know if I know the answer for myself: Why didn't you tell your wife about your sexual orientation before she found the gay website?
     
  16. link4816

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    It's been a while since I have responded, but I have been taking in all the things that are being said. Quick update on my situation: My wife and I are still together and she is still being wonderful about letting me share my feelings and thoughts with her. We are still seeing our therapist once every week or two weeks and discovering more about each other's feelings all the time. We both still have a decision to make, though, and it is clear that there is no perfect solution--although StraightAlly's Option 2 sounds pretty amazing:

    I asked my wife if she wanted to go hunting for a cute bisexual man that we both could fall in love with simultaneously (I write this with a healthy dose of sarcasm because the proposition sounds like some kind of fairytale), but she wasn't too keen on the idea.

    Merlin:

    My wife and I have been having a lot of honest talks, some more structured than others, about how our relationship might work. The bottom line is that our relationship really could work, but I would have to continue to limit my desires to be with other men (sexually and emotionally) to my fantasies and occasional flirtations that don't end up going anywhere (I would have to make sure that they did not). I would have some serious heartache over the years, but it could be balanced with all the good that comes out of my relationship with my wife.

    Aldrick:

    Since the night of the disclosure, I have tried to put myself in my wife's shoes. The first day after, I seriously considered that the best thing I could do for her would be to just leave, cut out the newly discovered cancer in her life, and let her heal without me being there as a constant reminder of the pain I caused her. The thing is, my wife is not a dummy. She is one of the smartest, sharpest people I have ever met. Avoidance is not going to help her; she needs to process everything that is happening, and only after a period of sustained reflection, decide what is best for her. She has told me loud and clear that she does not want me to make the decision on my own, without her--this would be me taking power away from her yet again. I believe her when she tells me that, even though it hurts her to know that I desire other people--more specifically, other men--she does not necessarily consider that to be a deal-breaker in terms of our relationship unless (1) I consider it to be a deal-breaker, or (2) I will not stay committed to her.

    Part of being committed to her, I am understanding more and more, means that there are boundaries to how far my desires can go. We lived out an example of what this means just this evening. We were in line at a fast food restaurant when I noticed what I considered to be an extremely hot guy in line. After we got our food, I pointed him out to her. She didn't think he was quite as good-looking as I made him out to be and told me so. We sat down to eat, and I kept stealing glances at him, without trying to hide it from my wife. She got annoyed with me and said, a little louder than I was comfortable with, "Why don't you get up and go talk to him?" She was right to be annoyed, I was not acting the way a married person should act. She then expressed her concern that I am just hanging around with her until I find the perfect guy to run away with. The truth is, I have not figured out what I am doing just yet, I need more time to figure things out. As I am deciding, though, my wife is still with me, figuring out things for herself. Her continuing support and acceptance of me demonstrates her love for me, and I am so touched by it. My wife seems to be reassuring me that she still wants to be with me, despite the truth I had been hiding for 15 years! I realize that she may change her mind over time, but right now, she still wants me, and I most definitely want her. I just wonder if the other (homosexual) things I want in life are going to be too much to ignore over time, as so many of you are warning me.

    So, to address your points, Aldrick, I AM considering my wife's perspective, even the perspective she may not be expressing to me but that I can imagine by stepping into her shoes. But I think I owe it to her to believe what she is TELLING me and not just concern myself with what she might be thinking.

    PeteNJ:

    I still have not reached out to any other person about this stuff; further disclosure is too big of a commitment at this point. One therapist, our couple's therapist, is all I can handle right now I think. But I acknowledge your suggestion, and I think it is a good one. As far as boundaries for ME go, I still have my own private thoughts and I have been doing a LOT of thinking lately. I have been running in my head scenarios over and over again, and I have been closely examining my homosexual feelings as they arise, more than ever before. Also, reading stories here on EC have been quite informative and have helped to "challenge" my perception of things. Some positive coming-out stories or stories of homosexual intimacy and love encourage me to choose to be an "out" gay person and to just go with it. It could be very exciting, fulfilling, and wonderful! On the other hand, other stories are depressing and make me realize how valuable my loving relationship with my wife really is. I am still very much in an exploratory phase, but I know that I will have to make a decision soon enough. I am very lucky that my wife is entertaining my own wishes to "process" everything.

    I appreciate the encouraging words here. I think you may be right that there is a world out there ready to embrace me. But I don't think it would be quite so magical as I like dream it would be. First of all, if I divorced my wife and came out, I wouldn't just get to forget my past and start over. I would have to carry around the guilt (for what I did to my wife, the position I left her in as a divorced woman) and the regret (of giving up the very fulfilling marriage I have with my wife) forever, or at least until we both found somebody else to love. I don't get to just discard her and move on. Second, I would be entering the world as a gay man with some serious baggage. I wonder how many other gay guys would shun me because I had been married to and had sex with a girl (a gay friend of mine likes to joke that he believes vaginas have teeth and are scary), or because I did not embrace my homosexuality earlier, but instead hid it like it wasn't good enough for me. Not to mention all the traditional discrimination I would encounter. A few years ago, another gay friend of mine and his friends were attacked and brutally beaten by a group of guys waiting for them outside a gay bar. EC posts tend to glorify the gay lifestyle (with plenty of exceptions), but I am not sure our society is quite yet as accepting as one might believe from reading the posts on this site.

    Ormanout:

    What you are describing sounds wonderful, but I wonder if my situation is different. I have definitely kept the little gay man inside of me a prisoner and captivity has been challenging and depressing at times. But the prison conditions have not been so terrible. He gets gay pornography and casual flirtations with other guys. He used to be very depressed that he had nobody to talk to for so long, but now he gets to talk to my wife, with limits (see above). [It is one thing to actively ogle other guys when I am out with my wife, and quite another to fantasize about completely unobtainable men, on occasion. It doesn't seem to bother my wife quite so much when I talk about hot guys we see on TV, because celebrities are hardly real people anyway. This has been an incredible outlet for me to be able to--once in a while--compare our opinions of celebrities we see on TV.]

    Of course, I may be totally kidding myself. One of my biggest fears and one of my wife's fears is that I will re-commit to her now and then, down the road, fall apart. Other guys on EC say that they pretty much fell apart as the lie continued over the years. But isn't my situation different because I am no longer lying to my wife?
     
  17. skiff

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    Hi,

    This thread makes a lot more sense since reading your comments on flirtation, and manipulating other people in another thread, and you recently learning this behaviour frustrates and annoys people you do it to.

    You may want to bring this aspect to your therapist.
     
  18. Tyler1

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    Don't pretend,it hurts you and her.Why intentionally inflict more pain on your wife. If you are truly gay,then you know what to do. Living a lie does no one good. You and your wife deserve to be in relationships that meet your needs. Forget threesomes,etc.
     
  19. link4816

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    Skiff:

    I think it is a good idea for me to further consider how my flirtations might be hurting other people. The post I commented on helped me to realize that.

    But before you or anybody else judges me based on my comments and word choice (e.g., manipulate) and perhaps labels me as some kind of monster, I suggest you fully consider what kind of damage your own actions have caused over the years and how many people you may have hurt. He who casts the first stone, and all that.
     
  20. skiff

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    Hi,

    Not labelling you a monster it is good to act on correcting past mistakes.

    I am glad we both see that.

    I have been used and used others in error (never deliberately), I am painfully aware of that now. Even doing it in error does not reduce the pain it inflicts.

    It is a raw nerve right now for me...

    I was in a long term gay relationship from age 13 to 28. My life was freaking perfect. Beach house, boat a man I adored for 15 years. Then he tells me "I am not gay" and walks out. Now I learn 27 years later he lied, he was gay, he left me only and solely to protect his closeted gay lie from his parents. That is bad enough but when he finally told me the truth this year I asked for an apology and he refused stating "I am not perfect" as if that is justification for using somebody.

    Yeah, currently I am sensitive to that sort of thing. Anybody who has been emotionally used that way is.

    I imagine I would feel differently if there was an apology and some guilt, but there was neither.