Is FtM a rejection of feminism?

Honestly, it's the feminists who call transmen sexist and myognists and treat transwomen like dirt that piss me off, and almost make me hate all feminists.

 

This doesn't apply to only FTM's. MTF's are often discriminated against these like-minded lesbian feminists. They say how we aren't true "womyn" and we don't understand what it really means to be a woman. That we'll never face the same oppression as them. They go under the assumption that transitioning allows us to retain our "male privilege." Just pointing out that I know how you feel.

I don't think you're betraying anyone. They think you are? So? Is that really going to stop you from doing what you have to do to not betray yourself? Just something you should think about.

 

Is being (either transgender identity) an active rebellion against (insert social issue here)?

The answer is obviously no.

This has been brought up time and time again, especially how MtF's exemplify and reinforce feminine gender roles that feminists try to do away with. But the simplest explanation is, that's just how gender is.

Living how you want isn't an active rebellion against anything. Being transgendered isn't a choice.

 

To me it sounds like a desperate attempt to justify and retain an "us and them" view of genders. The whole idea collapses when considering the transgendered, bigendered and intersex people. So instead of facing reality, they try to convince themselves transgendered people are just out to "play" the other side.

This is much the same view of reality, or rather "lets interpret reality in favour of our own personal conviction"-approach, that I often see in fundamentalist religious people, the alternative medicine community and amongst the anti-science/pseudoscience folk.

Feminism needs to stop the trench-warfare. It is not one side against another as two opposing enemies. Proper feminism is a fight against discrimination. Men and women are equal, and that goes both ways. When you hold that position, transgender people doesn't fall between two sides in a war, but find themselves on equal ground with everyone else against the haters who cannot see past their own bigotry.

I really get worked up when people are discriminated against. When women are treated unfairly I react not because I have a good dose of female identity, but as a human being and a humanist.

... and yeah, women usually are the party discriminated against when genders are put up against each other, and for that I am a feminist and still think feminism has a purpose in society. But a lot of men also are that kind of feminists. It makes me doubly sad when women oppress themselves though. Fundamentalist religious women who adopt the inferiority teaching of their faith and even actively promote this and oppose it on their daughters and teach it to their sons.

I cannot believe that FtMs are after a privileged position, or that MtFs infiltrate womanhood to enforce stereotypes. That is absurd and conspiratorial on the level of 9/11 conspiracy and fake moonlandings.

---------- Post added 8th Sep 2011 at 12:15 AM ----------

Oh, and maverick, you really are good at starting interesting threads

 

This^

 

That should be "impose" obviously

 

Honestly, this is just more cissexist bullshit spewed from the mouths of people who can't think outside the gender-defined-by-sex binary.

I have to admit, I'm paticularly disgusted by 'feminists' being offended and hating transwomen. YOU ARE ALL WOMEN, she is supposed to have the same rights you do, and the same rights any human does, but a group that should be an ally is working against you because you don't fit into their little boxes.

TBH, I ignore feminism. I'm all for gender equality (BOTH ways, which means men can get paternety leave and take days off to take care of their kids too -_- fucking 'equal' being more equal to mothers and not fathers), but feminists are *usually* sexist against men, which is completely hypocritcal.

 

Some homophobic feminists claim that lesbianism is assimilation, too. They're just using part of their worldview to justify their prejudice, like everyone else. Feminism really doesn't have anything to say about sexuality, other than the obvious implication of equality between sexual orientations and cisgenders as well as genders.

 

I have to agree with Veronica. Also, I don't understand some of these arguments that are being made. I know some male feminists who are very adamant about it. So, I guess that's kind of what is confusing me here. Are males not really considered feminists by the really hardcore ones or?

 

Feminism is supposed to be about gender equality, but some bigots have seen fit to march their putrid sexism under that banner of intellectual integrity and democracy.

 

The idea that a woman would have surgery to obtain "male privilege" is, I think absurd.

In fact, people moaning about "patriarchy" and looking at me to blame because of my chromosomes also is absurd considering that, like a lot of people on this board, I spent a lot of my time in middle school getting beaten up and feeling like committing suicide. Acting like I'm Mel Gibson, because of my chromosomes, is frankly insulting.

I'm over 50 years old, and I can tell you that people who politicize sexuality make no sense to me--I've grown to find them very tiresome.

 

From my perspective, this line of logic is rather silly. The whole point of the feminist movement (or at least, what should have been the whole point) was to correct the imbalance that existed between men and women. It was (or should have been) about equality based on humanity, rather than privileges based on gender. To accuse female-bodied men of patriarchy for switching physical gender is to say that the feminist movement was about moving women above men, rather than equalizing the playing field.

 

My two cents:

After I read "womon" and "womyn", I lost interest and had to start skimming the rest of it. Why even do that in the first place and make the effort to separate types of women? The only thing she's convinced me of is that she can't spell.

Hardcore feminists like that don't seem any better to me than religious fanatics. Same passions, same stupidity, different topic. I personally don't care at all for the feminist movement and don't consider men or women to be better or worse than the other. It never even crossed my mind that transgendered people could be singled out for such a thing. I bet this woman slaps every man that holds a door for her...

 

Everybody holds the door for each other here too, it's just more so that I can see the woman from the article getting horribly offended that a man dared to hold a door. Basically it'd be damned if you do or don't with someone that extreme.

It's just a learned type of thing. Men are "this" and women are "that". There isn't much of a difference beyond the plumbing but most people go with stereotypes and with pride for one's own gender I guess comes prejudice with some people? Even the car insurances are like "well you're a guy and 18 so obviously you drive fast and yes we're going to charge you more". Never mind the fact I can name a few girls who used to drive like maniacs. I think I'm getting off topic now though...