Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy - Empty Closets - A safe online community for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered people coming out

anatta · 23rd Nov 2011, 03:38 AM

Not just the song, the message behind it, which is nothing new but I'm hearing it more now thanks to those lyrics.

I do think the sexual orientation that will emerge in adolescence and the gender traits that emerge very early on are mostly or completely determined prior to birth, there is plenty of evidence for that by now, but I don't see the social relevance at all. Whether or not people can easily change their desires (which isn't even dependent upon whether they're formed prior to birth, if formed later in life it could still be exactly as unbending) is itself only relevant in as much as it means the discrimination is more harmful to those it affects than if they could easily change their desires as soon as it became a problem. Whether or not the desires are socially desirable however, is completely unrelated to both how those desires come to be, and whether they can be altered.

I know the intentions are pure but really, where is the pride in arguing for equality on the basis that "I can't help it"? It pathologises LGBT people at best and apologises for them at worst. It's making an excuse where no excuse is necessary. Only when someone acts upon desires that are harmful to unwilling parties do excuses become relevant. When I hear a gay person singing that Gaga song, I cringe because it's as if they're agreeing with people who consider their LGBT status to be less than ideal and are asking for a pardon.

If it were determined somehow that straight or gender typical people were, in fact, not born straight or gender typical, would they suddenly be facing discrimination and loss of privilege? No, because their rights and afforded dignity are not granted because it's assumed they're born that way. They're granted because their desires are not seen as negative things to act upon, while for various historical, social and psychological reasons, minority sexual and gendered desires are. It's that perception that needs to be challenged, otherwise you can expect to see research aimed at preventing LGBT people from being born in the not too distant future.

Danielle · 23rd Nov 2011, 03:55 AM

No offense but I think your reading into it too much.

It is just a song probably written for the purpose of making as much money as possible.

Aeon Magus · 23rd Nov 2011, 05:00 AM

Quote:

It doesn't matter if you love him or capital H-I-M
Just put your paws up
'Cause you were born this way, baby

My mama told me when I was young
We are all born superstars
She rolled my hair and put my lipstick on
In the glass of her boudoir

There's nothin' wrong with lovin' who you are
She said, 'cause He made you perfect, babe
So hold your head up, girl and you you'll go far
Listen to me when I say

I'm beautiful in my way
'Cause God makes no mistakes
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way

Don't hide yourself in regret
Just love yourself and you're set
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way, born this way

Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way
Baby, I was born this way
Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way
I'm on the right track, baby, I was born this way

Don't be a drag, just be a queen
Don't be a drag, just be a queen
Don't be a drag, just be a queen
Don't be

Give yourself prudence and love your friends
Subway kid, rejoice of truth
In the religion of the insecure
I must be myself, respect my youth

A different lover is not a sin
Believe capital H-I-M
I love my life, I love this record and
Mi amore vole fe yah

I'm beautiful in my way,
'Cause God makes no mistakes
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way

Don't hide yourself in regret,
Just love yourself and you're set
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way

Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way
Baby, I was born this way
Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way
I'm on the right track, baby, I was born this way

Don't be drag, just be a queen
Whether you're broke or evergreen
You're black, white, beige, chola descent
You're Lebanese, you're orient

Whether life's disabilities
Left you outcast, bullied or teased
Rejoice and love yourself today
'Cause baby, you were born this way

No matter gay, straight or bi
Lesbian, transgendered life
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born to survive

No matter black, white or beige
Chola or orient made
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born to be brave

I'm beautiful in my way
'Cause God makes no mistakes
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way

Don't hide yourself in regret,
Just love yourself and you're set
I'm on the right track, baby
I was born this way, yeah

Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way
Baby, I was born this way
Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way
I'm on the right track, baby, I was born this way
I was born this way, hey
I was born this way, hey
I'm on the right track, baby, I was born this way, hey

I was born this way, hey
I was born this way, hey
I'm on the right track, baby, I was born this way, hey

I don't interpret these lyrics the way you do, it seems. It's supposed to build confidence - the ray of hope that all of us need. And there's nothing wrong with the message behind it - if "God" makes no mistakes, then people who are LGBT aren't either. You're perfect the way you are, orientation and race included.

Friendly ghost · 23rd Nov 2011, 05:04 AM

I agree with Danielle, it is intended for money. But, you should also really look at the lyrics. It isn't say don't be mean to us because we were born this way. Its more/less talking to anyone to just be themselves, whoever you are, because you were born to be you. As in, don't try to change who you are for other people.

Though, I don't like it either, just not for that reason.

---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2011 at 08:06 AM ----------

Well now, Aeon Magnus you've beat me I see, I posted my opinion and when it refreshed I see it posted 4 minutes earlier.. I agree with you though.

Allecto · 23rd Nov 2011, 06:36 AM

My main beef with the song is the use of "chola" and "Orient." If you're going to write an anthem of empowerment, it might not be a good idea to use offensive terminology.

I think Gaga's heart is in the right place, but she missed the mark with "Born This Way." I'd like the song a lot more if it wasn't for the racefail.

anatta · 23rd Nov 2011, 07:31 AM

The other lyrics look better, but I doubt I'm rare in not knowing many of them, that line is still the one most people will remember and it's chosen as the title. I really just use the song as a topical reference point though; as I said, I don't agree with the common political argument that the title and chorus iterate, I don't really care about the song itself. I hate this type of music anyway, lol, so the thread's not really supposed to be about Lady Gaga, sorry if it looked like it was.

NoPlanB · 23rd Nov 2011, 08:23 AM

I love this song, but it always makes me feel like crap. Since gay is a minority (and one looked down on by a lot of people) being "born this way" made me feel like a mistake and a freak.

Emberstone · 23rd Nov 2011, 09:54 AM

put it this way. Anti-gay forces are pushing the disproven lie that sexuality is a choice.

Born this way as a statement, and in how lady gaga uses it in her song, is a push back against the lie. it is a direct responce to the 'its a choice' propaganda that even the originators of 'its a choice' are now saying is wrong, and that sexual orientation is not a choice.

it is basically a way to keep pushing back the propaganda, and getting people to think and look into the reality. Every civil rights movement has statements like this, becuase they are the distilation of (at least part) of the issue that needs to be dealt with in society.

it is harder to take away/deny rights if it is something that is a normal aspect of who a person is. Americans, and people all over the world are already rejecting the pedophillia/rapist lines, and the 'its a choice' is all the anti-gay forces really have in terms of a direct attack on lgbt people. the 'jesus tells me to kill all the gayz' line isnt getting traction anymore with the majority of the population.

Beachboi92 · 23rd Nov 2011, 10:15 AM

The idea that we are born with our sexuality, race, gender, etc has been a long standing method for minorities to fight for equal treatment. If they cannot be at fault or personally accountable for their state how can they be marginalized for it. I agree that in a way it does pathologize us however it is an effective method for getting equal treatment and a stepping stone towards breaking down the way our society marginalizes every group straying from the white middle to upper class heterosexual male mold. The problem with arguing from a moral standpoint about same sex activity is that right wing religious conservative have already planted their flag in that ground spouting the bible as the basis for their moral argument, so trying to counter that becomes he said she said and a battle against religion where as proving that gay people can't help but be gay is sort of a trump card.

---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2011 at 01:16 PM ----------

plus there is the fact that most of the scientific community believes sexuality is mostly inborn and that we have little to no say in who we are attracted to so there really is nothing wrong with stating something if it's the truth xD

**Chandra** · 23rd Nov 2011, 10:44 AM

I think Gaga's heart is in the right place and the song probably does more good than harm overall. But I agree with you, OP, that the idea that LGBT people should have rights merely because they can't help themselves is highly problematic.

And I'll reiterate this until I'm out of breath: although most people may not have any choice whatsoever when it comes to their sexuality, for some people there is a certain amount of choice involved. And these people have just as much right to acceptance and equality as anybody else.

Sadepeura · 23rd Nov 2011, 11:48 AM

I didn't use to like Lady Gaga, but I love this song. Especially all the bits in bold in Aeon Magus's post.

Kidd · 23rd Nov 2011, 01:04 PM

Personally I love the song and I have always maintained that people are born LGBT and I believe that for myself. Although, it really doesn't matter in the end whether it's a choice or if people are born or made that way or whatever. Religion is a choice and it receives an innumerable amount of protection, sexuality should be no different.

needshelp · 23rd Nov 2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle

No offense but I think your reading into it too much.

It is just a song probably written for the purpose of making as much money as possible.

this. i just think lady gaga is just catering to her fans if anything. if she didn't have a large gay fan following, i DOUBT she would have made this song.

NoName114 · 23rd Nov 2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoPlanB

I love this song, but it always makes me feel like crap. Since gay is a minority (and one looked down on by a lot of people) being "born this way" made me feel like a mistake and a freak.

I might sound stupid or nit-picking and I think lady gaga wanted to do a win-win (get a fat check and build confendence)

I also have a thesis that 75% of someone is set in stone and the other 15% varies on life

In The Clouds · 23rd Nov 2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadepeura

I didn't use to like Lady Gaga, but I love this song. Especially all the bits in bold in Aeon Magus's post.

Exactly how I feel! That song just makes me hate Gaga's music more, though. "Born This Way" proves that she can make good music and yet she put's out crap. (Going into Rarity/Large Hame mode) That is a CRIME I tell you! A CRIME! (Out of Rarity/Large Ham mode) Sorry 'bout that.

Aya McCabre · 23rd Nov 2011, 08:19 PM

It bugs me that people say we were born this way as a justification or a defense. It shouldn't matter. There are people who say they chose to be gay, and that's just as valid as people who believe they were born gay. It gets to me that there's so much emphasis on genetics when the studies so far can't back up a claim that there is a 100% genetic (or prenatal) basis... what about everyone else?

Revan · 23rd Nov 2011, 09:13 PM

You know what makes me queasy? People saying Gaga did this to make money. That's what makes me queasy

crazyhead · 23rd Nov 2011, 09:20 PM

I get where you're coming from. I too think that even if it were a choice, there would be nothing wrong with choosing to be gay. But, I think knowledge and understanding are important. I think it's important for people who aren't gay to understand everything there is to understand about homosexuality. (Other subjects too, but I'm specifying here.) Even if it's not relevant, the knowledge is a step toward understanding.
Also, I do think it's relevant. The point is not to separate us from minorities who are minority by choice. (Religious minorities for example.) But the point is to group us with people who are minorities by birth. Like black people. And once people understand that this parallel is sound, it's hard to insist on changing it.

**Mogget** · 23rd Nov 2011, 11:09 PM

I have no opinions on Gaga's song, but I hate the "homosexuality is not a choice" argument. From an ethical perspective, it's a stupid argument. The rightness or wrongness of an act is not determined by whether one has an inclination towards acting that way, but by the harm or benefit produced by that act. Even if homosexuality were completely chosen, that would not make it immoral. Likewise, even if I hada strong and persistent desire to steal every time I enter a friend's house, that would not make it moral.

By using the "homosexuality is a choice" argument we are, as anatta says, pathologizing and apologizing for homosexuality. Within that argument is a strong undercurrent of "if it were a choice, it would be wrong" and "damn we wish we didn't have this awful desire." And I reject both those statements absolutely and unequivocally.

midwestgirl89 · 23rd Nov 2011, 11:27 PM

Personally I love the song "Born this Way". The reason I love it is because when I go to a gay club or if I'm with gay friends we can dance together and really let loose. It's freeing. I haven't read much into the song but I love how it says "I'm beautiful in my way". I wasn't too sure about the chola or orient part though. I'm not sure if it's offensive or not.

23rd Nov 2011, 03:38 AM	#1
anatta Member Regular Member Gender: Female sex, fluid gender Orientation: Panromantic Asexual Out Status: Explaining usually feels too awkward. Posts: 61 Join Date: Nov 2011	Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy Not just the song, the message behind it, which is nothing new but I'm hearing it more now thanks to those lyrics. I do think the sexual orientation that will emerge in adolescence and the gender traits that emerge very early on are mostly or completely determined prior to birth, there is plenty of evidence for that by now, but I don't see the social relevance at all. Whether or not people can easily change their desires (which isn't even dependent upon whether they're formed prior to birth, if formed later in life it could still be exactly as unbending) is itself only relevant in as much as it means the discrimination is more harmful to those it affects than if they could easily change their desires as soon as it became a problem. Whether or not the desires are socially desirable however, is completely unrelated to both how those desires come to be, and whether they can be altered. I know the intentions are pure but really, where is the pride in arguing for equality on the basis that "I can't help it"? It pathologises LGBT people at best and apologises for them at worst. It's making an excuse where no excuse is necessary. Only when someone acts upon desires that are harmful to unwilling parties do excuses become relevant. When I hear a gay person singing that Gaga song, I cringe because it's as if they're agreeing with people who consider their LGBT status to be less than ideal and are asking for a pardon. If it were determined somehow that straight or gender typical people were, in fact, not born straight or gender typical, would they suddenly be facing discrimination and loss of privilege? No, because their rights and afforded dignity are not granted because it's assumed they're born that way. They're granted because their desires are not seen as negative things to act upon, while for various historical, social and psychological reasons, minority sexual and gendered desires are. It's that perception that needs to be challenged, otherwise you can expect to see research aimed at preventing LGBT people from being born in the not too distant future. __________________ Effeminophobia is a feminist issue too. If society didn't revere masculine qualities so much over feminine ones, "sissy" would have no more negative connotations than "tomboy", and a male teletubby with a bag would be seen as no more corrupting than the female teletubby with a scooter. Last edited by anatta; 23rd Nov 2011 at 03:46 AM..

23rd Nov 2011, 03:55 AM	#2
Danielle EC Addict Full Member Gender: Transgender - MtF Orientation: Lesbian Out Status: Most people Location: NSW, Australia Age: 19 Posts: 525 Join Date: Aug 2008	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy No offense but I think your reading into it too much. It is just a song probably written for the purpose of making as much money as possible. __________________ Homophobia is gay.

23rd Nov 2011, 05:04 AM	#4
Friendly ghost Always the Observer Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Family and friends, and I try to be to everyone. Location: Ohio Age: 22 Posts: 180 Join Date: Nov 2011	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy I agree with Danielle, it is intended for money. But, you should also really look at the lyrics. It isn't say don't be mean to us because we were born this way. Its more/less talking to anyone to just be themselves, whoever you are, because you were born to be you. As in, don't try to change who you are for other people. Though, I don't like it either, just not for that reason. ---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2011 at 08:06 AM ---------- Well now, Aeon Magnus you've beat me I see, I posted my opinion and when it refreshed I see it posted 4 minutes earlier.. I agree with you though.

23rd Nov 2011, 06:36 AM	#5
Allecto Fear this queer Full Member Gender: Femmebot Orientation: I'm pansexual, but right now I prefer femmes. ^_^ Out Status: So out of the closet that I was never really in. Location: The Berkshires Age: 22 Posts: 352 Join Date: Aug 2010	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy My main beef with the song is the use of "chola" and "Orient." If you're going to write an anthem of empowerment, it might not be a good idea to use offensive terminology. I think Gaga's heart is in the right place, but she missed the mark with "Born This Way." I'd like the song a lot more if it wasn't for the racefail. __________________ And don't you know you're beautiful. ♥

23rd Nov 2011, 07:31 AM	#6
anatta Member Regular Member Gender: Female sex, fluid gender Orientation: Panromantic Asexual Out Status: Explaining usually feels too awkward. Posts: 61 Join Date: Nov 2011	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy The other lyrics look better, but I doubt I'm rare in not knowing many of them, that line is still the one most people will remember and it's chosen as the title. I really just use the song as a topical reference point though; as I said, I don't agree with the common political argument that the title and chorus iterate, I don't really care about the song itself. I hate this type of music anyway, lol, so the thread's not really supposed to be about Lady Gaga, sorry if it looked like it was. __________________ Effeminophobia is a feminist issue too. If society didn't revere masculine qualities so much over feminine ones, "sissy" would have no more negative connotations than "tomboy", and a male teletubby with a bag would be seen as no more corrupting than the female teletubby with a scooter.

23rd Nov 2011, 08:23 AM	#7
NoPlanB This is a warning, a courtesy call Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Homoromantic asexual Out Status: Still in the closet Location: Michigan Age: 20 Posts: 289 Join Date: Dec 2010	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy I love this song, but it always makes me feel like crap. Since gay is a minority (and one looked down on by a lot of people) being "born this way" made me feel like a mistake and a freak. __________________ We all want to be somebody We just need a taste of who we are We all want to be somebody We're willing to go, but not that far

23rd Nov 2011, 09:54 AM	#8
Emberstone Flappychap Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Oregon, USA Age: 28 Posts: 5,599 Join Date: May 2008	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy put it this way. Anti-gay forces are pushing the disproven lie that sexuality is a choice. Born this way as a statement, and in how lady gaga uses it in her song, is a push back against the lie. it is a direct responce to the 'its a choice' propaganda that even the originators of 'its a choice' are now saying is wrong, and that sexual orientation is not a choice. it is basically a way to keep pushing back the propaganda, and getting people to think and look into the reality. Every civil rights movement has statements like this, becuase they are the distilation of (at least part) of the issue that needs to be dealt with in society. it is harder to take away/deny rights if it is something that is a normal aspect of who a person is. Americans, and people all over the world are already rejecting the pedophillia/rapist lines, and the 'its a choice' is all the anti-gay forces really have in terms of a direct attack on lgbt people. the 'jesus tells me to kill all the gayz' line isnt getting traction anymore with the majority of the population. __________________ TYPE YOUR NAME: Cory. TYPE YOUR NAME WITH YOUR ELBOW: vcoiptryu SLAM YOUR FACE ON THE KEYBOARD: About three things I was absolutely positive. First, Edward was a vampire. Second, there was a part of him - and I didn't know how potent that part might be - that thirsted for my blood. And third, I was unconditionally and irrevocably in love with him.

23rd Nov 2011, 10:15 AM	#9
Beachboi92 Occasionally Caddy Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: queer Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Frederick Maryland Age: 19 Posts: 2,226 Join Date: Jul 2009	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy The idea that we are born with our sexuality, race, gender, etc has been a long standing method for minorities to fight for equal treatment. If they cannot be at fault or personally accountable for their state how can they be marginalized for it. I agree that in a way it does pathologize us however it is an effective method for getting equal treatment and a stepping stone towards breaking down the way our society marginalizes every group straying from the white middle to upper class heterosexual male mold. The problem with arguing from a moral standpoint about same sex activity is that right wing religious conservative have already planted their flag in that ground spouting the bible as the basis for their moral argument, so trying to counter that becomes he said she said and a battle against religion where as proving that gay people can't help but be gay is sort of a trump card. ---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2011 at 01:16 PM ---------- plus there is the fact that most of the scientific community believes sexuality is mostly inborn and that we have little to no say in who we are attracted to so there really is nothing wrong with stating something if it's the truth xD __________________ All men are created equal, it is only men themselves who place themselves above equality. David Allan Coe

23rd Nov 2011, 10:44 AM	#10
Chandra Empty Closets Advisor EC Advisor Gender: Female Orientation: somewhere over the rainbow Out Status: Out to most people Posts: 782 Join Date: Jan 2010	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy I think Gaga's heart is in the right place and the song probably does more good than harm overall. But I agree with you, OP, that the idea that LGBT people should have rights merely because they can't help themselves is highly problematic. And I'll reiterate this until I'm out of breath: although most people may not have any choice whatsoever when it comes to their sexuality, for some people there is a certain amount of choice involved. And these people have just as much right to acceptance and equality as anybody else.

23rd Nov 2011, 11:48 AM	#11
Sadepeura Bow ties are cool. Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Pansexual lesbian in a heterosexual relationship Out Status: Most people Location: Scotland Age: 22 Posts: 343 Join Date: Apr 2011	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy I didn't use to like Lady Gaga, but I love this song. Especially all the bits in bold in Aeon Magus's post. __________________ "What’s the worst that could happen?" "You could get torn to pieces by a monster you can’t see." - Amy Pond

23rd Nov 2011, 01:04 PM	#12
Kidd You'll love me! Full Member Gender: ♂ Orientation: ♂ ♥ ♂ Out Status: Out Location: N.W. Ohio Age: 21 Posts: 1,430 Join Date: Mar 2010	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy Personally I love the song and I have always maintained that people are born LGBT and I believe that for myself. Although, it really doesn't matter in the end whether it's a choice or if people are born or made that way or whatever. Religion is a choice and it receives an innumerable amount of protection, sexuality should be no different. __________________ I feel a hunger. Take my picture by the pool, because I'm the next big thing. Fingers crossed, my time is coming now...

23rd Nov 2011, 08:19 PM	#16
Aya McCabre Beware of the Metaphor Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Lesbian Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Dunedin, New Zealand Age: 21 Posts: 613 Join Date: Feb 2011	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy It bugs me that people say we were born this way as a justification or a defense. It shouldn't matter. There are people who say they chose to be gay, and that's just as valid as people who believe they were born gay. It gets to me that there's so much emphasis on genetics when the studies so far can't back up a claim that there is a 100% genetic (or prenatal) basis... what about everyone else? __________________ Time is on my side she said. He may be on your side I said, but it makes no difference in the end, He's coming after you my friend........

23rd Nov 2011, 09:13 PM	#17
Revan EC Addict Full Member Gender: M for MEEP! Orientation: Mutant and Proud Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 24 Posts: 6,569 Join Date: Jun 2005	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy You know what makes me queasy? People saying Gaga did this to make money. That's what makes me queasy __________________ "Is there some reason my coffee isn't here? Has she died or something?" - Miranda Priestly. Strength is not defined by physical capacity, but by indomitable will. ~ Mahatma Gandhi Procrastination is like masturbation, in the end you just wind up screwing yourself.

23rd Nov 2011, 09:20 PM	#18
crazyhead flying away Full Member Gender: Male Orientation: Gay Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Texas Age: 22 Posts: 247 Join Date: Jul 2011	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy I get where you're coming from. I too think that even if it were a choice, there would be nothing wrong with choosing to be gay. But, I think knowledge and understanding are important. I think it's important for people who aren't gay to understand everything there is to understand about homosexuality. (Other subjects too, but I'm specifying here.) Even if it's not relevant, the knowledge is a step toward understanding. Also, I do think it's relevant. The point is not to separate us from minorities who are minority by choice. (Religious minorities for example.) But the point is to group us with people who are minorities by birth. Like black people. And once people understand that this parallel is sound, it's hard to insist on changing it. __________________ "Dyin' is the day worth livin' for"

23rd Nov 2011, 11:09 PM	#19
Mogget Mad and dead as nails EC Advisor Gender: Male Orientation: Kinsey 5 or 6. It varies Out Status: Out to everyone Location: Alaska Age: 22 Posts: 2,026 Join Date: Mar 2010	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy I have no opinions on Gaga's song, but I hate the "homosexuality is not a choice" argument. From an ethical perspective, it's a stupid argument. The rightness or wrongness of an act is not determined by whether one has an inclination towards acting that way, but by the harm or benefit produced by that act. Even if homosexuality were completely chosen, that would not make it immoral. Likewise, even if I hada strong and persistent desire to steal every time I enter a friend's house, that would not make it moral. By using the "homosexuality is a choice" argument we are, as anatta says, pathologizing and apologizing for homosexuality. Within that argument is a strong undercurrent of "if it were a choice, it would be wrong" and "damn we wish we didn't have this awful desire." And I reject both those statements absolutely and unequivocally. __________________ "As to what I am, I once was many things but now I am only several." - Mogget in Sabriel by Garth Nix "The world is quiet here." - VFD

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23rd Nov 2011, 11:27 PM	#20
midwestgirl89 EC Addict Full Member Gender: Female Orientation: Interested in Women Out Status: Some people Age: 23 Posts: 559 Join Date: Jul 2011	Re: Why "Born This Way" makes me queasy Personally I love the song "Born this Way". The reason I love it is because when I go to a gay club or if I'm with gay friends we can dance together and really let loose. It's freeing. I haven't read much into the song but I love how it says "I'm beautiful in my way". I wasn't too sure about the chola or orient part though. I'm not sure if it's offensive or not.