Why You Shouldn't Donate to the Salvation Army—Ever

[Dan82]

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/201...salvation.html

With Thanksgiving days away, you know that means the Christmas lights will be out. And with them will be the bell ringers and their Salvation Army kettles. But libertarians and liberals may well wish to keep their change to themselves. Even conservatives should think twice. The Salvation Army is not exactly a charity, as many people assume. It is a religious sect, and a fundamentalist one at that. It is part of the Religious Right and it has an agenda like they do.

Like other fundamentalists they think abortion should be outlawed. They write: “The Salvation Army deplores society’s ready acceptance of abortion, which reflects insufficient concern for vulnerable persons, including the unborn.” Get that? The “unborn” are persons. That is in line with the “personhood” campaign to define every fetus as legally a person. Similarly you can count them out when it comes to defending the rights of individuals to terminate their own lives in the face of unbearable pain and misery. They say: “The Salvation Army believes that euthanasia and assisted suicide undermine human dignity and are morally wrong regardless of age or disability.” Yep, I sure would feel more dignified, if my mind was gone, and I was bedridden, lying in my own urine and feces while suffering pain—instead of being able to choose to terminate my life before that happens...



http://freestudents.blogspot.com/201...salvation.html

[Rinamir Mortem]

Well, you learn something new everyday.

[alex2020]

Originally Posted by Rinamir Mortem

Well, you learn something new everyday.

This, pretty much. I had no idea.

[aidan]

ZJ has posted a few videos on this, this one she made yesterday:

+ YouTube Video

[fiddledeedee]

People tend to forget that churches and religious groups can actually do a lot of good work in communities. Whilst I personally disagree with their stance on abortion and euthanasia, they nonetheless are very helpful in many ways.

[Shevanel]

Biased opinion pieces as news? =/ I understand the whole act of bringing these facts front and center, but it's quite obvious that the writer's political beliefs are extremely apparent. Not everyone shares the same views as the writer. (This goes for any opinion piece put forth as news. >_>)

[Emberstone]

Originally Posted by Shevanel

Biased opinion pieces as news? =/ I understand the whole act of bringing these facts front and center, but it's quite obvious that the writer's political beliefs are extremely apparent. Not everyone shares the same views as the writer. (This goes for any opinion piece put forth as news. >_>)

oh snap... shev just side-trashed fox news.

The salvation army is a very strange organization, and that is without getting into its strange, anti-american/anti-jesus/anti-freedom views.

There was a man who was homeless, and recruited to join the organization, and so he devoted his time to it, and in return, he had a place to live, and a job that paid him a stipend. then, he fell in love, and got married, and the salvation army demanded he divorce her, since she was not a member, or he will have everything taken away from him.

I think he choose to leave the group entirely.

It really has some cult like tendacies.

I do not give to them, ever, because there are far better groups to give to who do good without also inflicting harm on others and society.

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by Emberstone

oh snap... shev just side-trashed fox news.

The salvation army is a very strange organization, and that is without getting into its strange, anti-american/anti-jesus/anti-freedom views.

There was a man who was homeless, and recruited to join the organization, and so he devoted his time to it, and in return, he had a place to live, and a job that paid him a stipend. then, he fell in love, and got married, and the salvation army demanded he divorce her, since she was not a member, or he will have everything taken away from him.

I think he choose to leave the group entirely.

It really has some cult like tendacies.

I do not give to them, ever, because there are far better groups to give to who do good without also inflicting harm on others and society.

I actually agree with some of what you wrote. I've heard things about the Salvation Army that have caused me to have negative views on them (as there are plenty of charities that aren't exactly as clean cut as they are made out to be.).

And I actually quite dislike the opinion figures on Fox News such as O'Reilly and Hannity and so on (There are of course a few that try to stay as unbiased as possible, such as Shep Smith, he's quite awesome.). Fox News isn't the only major news station guilty of this though. For example MSNBC had Keith Olbermann. For the record, I'm quite fine with people having and expressing their opinion, I just don't think that NEWS stations should be broadcasting their shows when people can easily interpret their opinions as facts since it is supposed to be a news station. (Like MTV with actual music shows? xD)

I can talk shit about Fox News (or any Mainstream News Station) all I want. I just hate the annoying fad of "lawlfauxnews". It's way overused. Especially when the other stations aren't that much better. They point to the O'Reilly Show and Glenn Beck and forget about the rest of the day's programming. Not saying that that is also flawless, but you know what I mean, I'm sure. Real News Reporting is not as easy to find anymore.

Not to further derail this thread or anything... xD

[RedState]

Originally Posted by Shevanel

I actually agree with some of what you wrote. I've heard things about the Salvation Army that have caused me to have negative views on them (as there are plenty of charities that aren't exactly as clean cut as they are made out to be.).

And I actually quite dislike the opinion figures on Fox News such as O'Reilly and Hannity and so on (There are of course a few that try to stay as unbiased as possible, such as Shep Smith, he's quite awesome.). Fox News isn't the only major news station guilty of this though. For example MSNBC had Keith Olbermann. For the record, I'm quite fine with people having and expressing their opinion, I just don't think that NEWS stations should be broadcasting their shows when people can easily interpret their opinions as facts since it is supposed to be a news station. (Like MTV with actual music shows? xD)

I can talk shit about Fox News (or any Mainstream News Station) all I want. I just hate the annoying fad of "lawlfauxnews". It's way overused. Especially when the other stations aren't that much better. They point to the O'Reilly Show and Glenn Beck and forget about the rest of the day's programming. Not saying that that is also flawless, but you know what I mean, I'm sure. Real News Reporting is not as easy to find anymore.

Not to further derail this thread or anything... xD

You are very accurate in your analysis...I watch both Fox and MSNBC out of necessity because of my profession, however I prefer Bloomberg News..prolly the last unbiased news source left.

As far as the Salvation Army...I think they do good work in communities...and Dan thanks for posting this...I'm going to give them extra money in the Red Kettle now every time I see one because of it...just because I know it will piss off some leftist kook columnist

[Cymbrii]

Aren't the Salvation Army anti-gay as well? I think I remember hearing something about it but I dunno. I didn't know anything about them being cult-like though, that's a bit scary :x

[Shevanel]

Originally Posted by Cymbrii

Aren't the Salvation Army anti-gay as well? I think I remember hearing something about it but I dunno. I didn't know anything about them being cult-like though, that's a bit scary :x

It's a bit of an exaggeration... xD They ain't gonna poison the Kool-Aid any time soon.

[Mogget]

Yes, the SA is actively anti-gay. From their website:

Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.

They also want to criminalize porn:

Pornography is not an issue of private morality alone. It has become a major economic force with vast societal and ethical implications. The Salvation Army believes that all people have the right to protection from enterprises that erode society and exploit persons. Those who neglect the public interest in this regard should be held legally and morally accountable.

Also, RedState, before you drop that money in the kettle, note this:

• All people have a right to secure the basic necessities of life (e.g., food, clothing, shelter, education, health care, safe environment, economic security).

• All people have the right to economic initiative, to productive work, to just wages and benefits, and to decent working conditions.


• All people, to the extent they are able, have a corresponding duty to work, a responsibility to provide for the needs of their families, and an obligation to contribute to the broader society.

The Salvation Army believes that certain societal structures can perpetuate economic injustice and is committed to seek constructive changes in those structures wherever they exist. The Salvation Army endeavors to serve individuals in such a way that the spiritual and social dimensions of their needs are identified and addressed. In this approach we find the very essence of the Gospel expressed.

[RedState]

Originally Posted by Liam

Yes, the SA is actively anti-gay. From their website:

They also want to criminalize porn:

Also, RedState, before you drop that money in the kettle, note this:

So..they think that people should actually work work a living..which I know is a strange concept to the left wing..and especially those freaks that I see at Occupy DC...what is so bad about that?

Earlier in the year I had some good friends...both in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham..that were displaced because of the shit that came through here. Red Cross, Salvation Army were the first ones on the scene..and I think that is a good thing

So..all you people..go ahead and withhold your donations (studies show that republicans give more than democrats anyway...so go ahead and boycott..I doubt they will miss your contributions) we will pick up the slack...after all...we pick up the slack now, so why should this be any different?

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by RedState

So..they think that people should actually work work a living..which I know is a strange concept to the left wing..and especially those freaks that I see at Occupy DC...what is so bad about that?

So much for that compassion thing I mentioned earlier. You know, as a gay republican, you're the 'freak' around these parts. You might want to check that attitude at the door. I'm not even going to get into how wrong you are with this generalization too. Let's save that for some other day.

Originally Posted by RedState

Earlier in the year I had some good friends...both in Tuscaloosa and Birmingham..that were displaced because of the shit that came through here. Red Cross, Salvation Army were the first ones on the scene..and I think that is a good thing

I don't think anyone is disputing that. What is happening here is a discussion of the ethical question that we've all faced many times before. Is it alright to support an institution hell-bent on your personal destruction? I and probably most other posters on this board would say probably not. That's why the LGBT community has been traditionally anti-republican.

Originally Posted by RedState

So..all you people..go ahead and withhold your donations (studies show that republicans give more than democrats anyway...so go ahead and boycott..I doubt they will miss your contributions) we will pick up the slack...after all...we pick up the slack now, so why should this be any different?

Which study is that? Because the one I'm reading about by Arthur Brooks says;

'Brooks concludes that “liberals and conservatives are not distinguishable” in whether they have made any donation in the last year. This is literally true, but he fails to note that in the model liberals give significantly more than moderates, if a traditional .05 significance level is used, while conservatives do not differ significantly from moderates.'

Charitable Giving: Liberals vs. Conservatives

[RedState]

Originally Posted by Kidd

So much for that compassion thing I mentioned earlier. You know, as a gay republican, you're the 'freak' around these parts. You might want to check that attitude at the door. I'm not even going to get into how wrong you are with this generalization too. Let's save that for some other day.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. What is happening here is a discussion of the ethical question that we've all faced many times before. Is it alright to support an institution hell-bent on your personal destruction? I and probably most other posters on this board would say probably not. That's why the LGBT community has been traditionally anti-republican.

Which study is that? Because the one I'm reading about by Arthur Brooks says;

Point 1
Compassion? So I should be simply giddy to keep deadbeats up with my tax dollars? I don't think so chief. Not my fault I got a job..nor is it society's fault if I don't have one. If I get laid off I'm not going to be playing bongos in some park...I'm going to be hoofing it to find a job...so spare me the compassion crap. These people are as interested in getting a job as much as I am interested in becoming a cabbage farmer.

There are rich people, and there are poor people. We also have middle class and we have ditch diggers...it's been like that for over 200 years.

As far as being a "freak" in regards as being a gay Republican..I welcome it...I embrace it and I'm proud of it...and I'm checking nothing at the door, so deal with it.

Point 2
I never said it's wrong to support or not support them..you can do what the fuck you want to. I choose to support them..that it is my right because I think they do good work...as it is your right to not support them, which is fine. I simply happen to believe that it is not part of the great "anti-gay conspiracy"....which seems to be a common theme on this board at times.

Point 3
I should have been more clear, and I extend my apologizes for not being so. I was going by the last 2011 Quarter FEC Filings of Members of Congress and the statement of Executive Economic Interest for Q3/2011

I will read your link though.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but you see, I live in literalville....reality simply re-enforces my prejudices everyday.

[Maddy]

Guys. Seriously. How many times do we have to give the "keep on topic and keep respectful" warning in this section?

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by RedState

Compassion? So I should be simply giddy to keep deadbeats up with my tax dollars? I don't think so chief. Not my fault I got a job..nor is it society's fault if I don't have one. If I get laid off I'm not going to be playing bongos in some park...I'm going to be hoofing it to find a job...so spare me the compassion crap. These people are as interested in getting a job as much as I am interested in becoming a cabbage farmer. There are rich people, and there are poor people. We also have middle class and we have ditch diggers...it's been like that for over 200 years.

Like I said before, if you think anyone enjoys being broke, borderline homeless or actually homeless, swimming in debt and camping in a tent when it's 30 degrees or below outside, then you're simply delusional. There is no other way to say it. What disgusts me is that you think that these people are somehow just worthless deadbeats because they can't find a job. Some of these people are mothers or college graduates, some of them are elderly that are trying to return to the workforce after they've retired because their savings have been completely decimated. I would say that some of them have worked harder than you or me or anyone else on this board. I already cited the McDonald's example when this first started. There's 50,000 jobs available at McDonald's and over 1,000,000 applied for them. Do you think that's an isolated incident? It's easy to say "Go get a job." It's something else entirely to actually do it when positions have been axed to give another executive a $2.2 million dollar bonus, and of the jobs available very few actually offer quality health insurance anyway.

In the 1980's CEO's were paid, on average, 50x the amount of a lay employee's wages. Today, it's more than 300x the average. The middle class is shrinking because of trickle-down economics, the profits go to the chosen few and everyone else is left to fight over scraps and it simply is not sustainable any longer. That's what people are protesting among other things like corporate personhood and corruption. Not everyone is there playing the drums. Some people are there because they have very valid things to say.

Originally Posted by RedState

As far as being a "freak" in regards as being a gay Republican..I welcome it...I embrace it and I'm proud of it...and I'm checking nothing at the door, so deal with it.

If you say so, but I didn't sign on to get knocked around by anyone's abusive boyfriend. It's perfectly alright to support an institution near to your heart, but wouldn't it be nice to feel like the institution actually cared about you too? You and me both are the red meat thrown to the evangelical republican base.

Originally Posted by RedState

I never said it's wrong to support or not support them..you can do what the fuck you want to. I choose to support them..that it is my right because I think they do good work...as it is your right to not support them, which is fine. I simply happen to believe that it is not part of the great "anti-gay conspiracy"....which seems to be a common theme on this board at times.

It's not really a 'conspiracy' when they explicitly list the dilution of your rights as one of their goals in their mission statement and then lobby to get it done. It's just the way things are.

Originally Posted by RedState

Sorry if this seems harsh, but you see, I live in literalville....reality simply re-enforces my prejudices everyday.

Oh, I understand that perfectly. It works the same way with racists and homophobes. One example is all they need to run to the town square shouting the evils of whatever it is they're opposing. I just won't ever understand that sort of 'thinking.'

[RedState]

Originally Posted by Kidd

Like I said before, if you think anyone enjoys being broke, borderline homeless or actually homeless, swimming in debt and camping in a tent when it's 30 degrees or below outside, then you're simply delusional. There is no other way to say it. What disgusts me is that you think that these people are somehow just worthless deadbeats because they can't find a job. Some of these people are mothers or college graduates, some of them are elderly that are trying to return to the workforce after they've retired because their savings have been completely decimated. I would say that some of them have worked harder than you or me or anyone else on this board. I already cited the McDonald's example when this first started. There's 50,000 jobs available at McDonald's and over 1,000,000 applied for them. Do you think that's an isolated incident? It's easy to say "Go get a job." It's something else entirely to actually do it when positions have been axed to give another executive a $2.2 million dollar bonus, and of the jobs available very few actually offer quality health insurance anyway.

In the 1980's CEO's were paid, on average, 50x the amount of a lay employee's wages. Today, it's more than 300x the average. The middle class is shrinking because of trickle-down economics, the profits go to the chosen few and everyone else is left to fight over scraps and it simply is not sustainable any longer. That's what people are protesting among other things like corporate personhood and corruption. Not everyone is there playing the drums. Some people are there because they have very valid things to say.

If you say so, but I didn't sign on to get knocked around by anyone's abusive boyfriend. It's perfectly alright to support an institution near to your heart, but wouldn't it be nice to feel like the institution actually cared about you too? You and me both are the red meat thrown to the evangelical republican base.

It's not really a 'conspiracy' when they explicitly list the dilution of your rights as one of their goals in their mission statement and then lobby to get it done. It's just the way things are.

Oh, I understand that perfectly. It works the same way with racists and homophobes. One example is all they need to run to the town square shouting the evils of whatever it is they're opposing. I just won't ever understand that sort of 'thinking.'

Point 1)
The comical thing is, they actually kick the actual homeless people out of the "tent city" in Washington...and in New York, they don't like the homeless stealing their food...so you have to understand why people like me laugh at people like the "Occupiers"..because they have become a parody of themselves. But, maybe it's just an off day whenever I walk through McPherson Square...maybe all the mothers and college graduates that you speak of are busy whenever I walk through..because all i see are a bunch of worthless hippies, playing bongos, circling hula hoops, and hissing at people--like me--that are on their way to..you know..some sort of job.

I don't think they are worthless deadbeats because they can't find a job...I think most people have sympathy for people that are trying to find work to support themselves or their family and can't find employment. I think they are worthless deadbeats because they DON'T WANT to find employment and they expect people like ME to give them what they don't have.

So what if CEO's make whatever? That's up to the board and the shareholder's of that individual company...it's not up to government to decide who makes what in the private sector or how much is enough.

Point 2
Yeah you are right about the gay thing...but you know what? My family has been extremely financially blessed, so we are thrown as red meat to all the left wing kooks..so I guess it's even..wouldn't it be nice if there wasn't such a resentment from those on the far left toward people that were very successful? (I'm not saying you are..I'm simply saying in general)

As far as the "abusive boyfriend"...I have no idea what you are talking about so I can't respond to it.

Point 3
I don't understand the logic and thinking of many people...but it is what it is and I deal with it.

[Maddy]

Originally Posted by Maddy

Guys. Seriously. How many times do we have to give the "keep on topic and keep respectful" warning in this section?

Apparently, we need to keep giving it >_< If you want to argue, do it throuh PM, and keep the threads on topic. If this one keeps turning into personal arguments, it's getting locked.

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by RedState

The comical thing is, they actually kick the actual homeless people out of the "tent city" in Washington...and in New York, they don't like the homeless stealing their food...so you have to understand why people like me laugh at people like the "Occupiers"..because they have become a parody of themselves. But, maybe it's just an off day whenever I walk through McPherson Square...maybe all the mothers and college graduates that you speak of are busy whenever I walk through..because all i see are a bunch of worthless hippies, playing bongos, circling hula hoops, and hissing at people--like me--that are on their way to..you know..some sort of job.

They have other responsibilities, and you know, they're looking for a job. I just think it is beyond unfair to characterize an Occupy protest as nothing more than a drum line or a bongfest.

Originally Posted by RedState

So what if CEO's make whatever? That's up to the board and the shareholder's of that individual company...it's not up to government to decide who makes what in the private sector or how much is enough.

Obviously. These protests aren't for solely the government's benefit. Businesses might be looking at strikes or boycotts. Who knows what's going to happen?

Originally Posted by RedState

Yeah you are right about the gay thing...but you know what? My family has been extremely financially blessed, so we are thrown as red meat to all the left wing kooks..so I guess it's even..wouldn't it be nice if there wasn't such a resentment from those on the far left toward people that were very successful? (I'm not saying you are..I'm simply saying in general)

I too come from a blessed background, but the government can tax my family at a higher rate and give it to single mothers struggling to make ends meet, or they can take it and turn it into a library. They can take my money and funnel it into community sanctions or hire another teacher at my expense. At the end of the day I'm still going to be able to buy the things I want and have food on my table and clothes on my back, I'll still have gas in my car. Not everyone can say that. A rising tide lifts all boats, if you understand the metaphor. I hope I'm not being vague.

Originally Posted by RedState

As far as the "abusive boyfriend"...I have no idea what you are talking about so I can't respond to it.

It was just an analogy. The republican party is your boyfriend, but I'm the one abused. Get it? It's actually something I lifted from a chapter in Don't Get Too Comfortable. You can support Newt Gingrich or Romney or Ron Paul or whoever, but when they push to ban our marriages, legislate us into obscurity and demonize us, I'm the one paying the price.

---------- Post added 2nd Dec 2011 at 10:31 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Maddy

Apparently, we need to keep giving it >_< If you want to argue, do it throuh PM, and keep the threads on topic. If this one keeps turning into personal arguments, it's getting locked.

Sorry Maddy. x_x