Canada Goes from Gay Rights Beacon, to Discrimination Central -_-

[Revan]

So today a report has been made that I think has changed Canada for being the centre of gay rights, to being the centre of gay discrimination? What could they have done that is so heinous? Well try a global Proposition 8.

Despite legal about-face, Harper has ‘no intention’ of reopening same-sex marriage - The Globe and Mail

The Harper government has served notice that thousands of same-sex couples who flocked to Canada from abroad since 2004 to get married are not legally wed.

But speaking in Halifax Thursday, the Prime Minister said the issue was not on the agenda for his majority Conservatives. “We have no intention of further re-opening or opening this issue,” Stephen Harper told reporters when asked about The Globe and Mail’s report.

More is in the article. But from what it says, the whole idea is this, anyone except for Canadians or people who actually have married and lived in Canada for more than a year, who was married to a member of their same-sex, these marriages are no longer legal. If you are from the UK and got married then returned to the UK? You're not married. If you're from Puerto Rico? Not married. California? Not married.

So I pretty much can say Canada just imposed a global Proposition 8. Congrats Canada, you became not my fave place to live anymore...

[Lexington]

That's pretty much it. It seems less an "anti-gay" measure than a rather perverted "anti-immigration" measure. In short, "Don't come to our country just because you want to get married. Either you're living here or it don't count."

Lex

[ANightDude]

It isn't a Global Prop 8. As Lex said, Canada has always been really, really, really tough on immigration. They won't even let you move there unless your career is "in demand" up there, so it's not really that surprising.

While it's sort of uncool, it's not a massive shock.

[seeksanctuary]

... But that happens here in the USA already, if I'm not mistaken. If you get married in one state and move to another, there's a decent chance your marriage won't be considered valid. Why would it be any different for countries?

I agree though, it does suck and I think they'd be better off saying "look, we let you guys do this in the past but FROM NOW ON no more of this". Retroactively cancelling marriages to me is an asshole move. It'd be easier to just stop any further out-of-country marriages.

[alan t]

I read this this morning and got so depressed. I can't believe it.

Anyway, the important point is that this is merely a legal opinion stated by a government lawyer during a court case. It is not a settled fact.

[Alexandria]

Disappointing but unsurprising given our current yankee kissing government. However, it reads more to me like either a legal cock up or an immigration thing, as previously stated.

Either way - canucks, make some noise and fix it.

[aidan]

Update on the Canadian same-sex marriage dissolutions

It’s not a new law that was passed, per se, but a federal lawyer who stated that marriages performed in Canada were not valid if the married people were from a country that didn’t allow gay marriage. When a reporter asked Stephen Harper if that was true — if every same-sex marriage between Americans performed in Canada was technically invalid — dismissed it altogether by saying he “didn’t want to reopen the issue.” So he publicly refused to say whether or not thousands and thousands of marriages were even legal.

As one source pointed out:

from here

[AloneOutHere]

You know what else pisses me off.. none of the candidates of the 2012 elections wanna say ANYTHING about gay rights.. they're just pansies that don't want to say anything "wrong" and lose a few votes. FTW!! I wish somebody would stand up for gay rights. One Person!!!

[Doctor Faustus]

Some further clarification:

LGBT Legal Groups: Canadian Marriages of Same-Sex Couples Are Not in Jeopardy « NCLR Blog: Out for Justice

[person54]

Originally Posted by AloneOutHere

You know what else pisses me off.. none of the candidates of the 2012 elections wanna say ANYTHING about gay rights.. they're just pansies that don't want to say anything "wrong" and lose a few votes. FTW!! I wish somebody would stand up for gay rights. One Person!!!

QFE

It sucks that there is not one person who will represent the LGBT community in an uncompromising way.

[breakingboxes]

Actually Its not true. Canadian marriages of same-sex couples are not in jeopardy | Freedom to Marry

[lazyboy]

Here's more...

"The federal government is considering changes to the law that will make it easier for foreign same-sex couples who married in Canada to obtain divorces, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said Thursday."

"A lesbian couple who married in Canada seven years ago and recently filed for divorce was told by a Department of Justice lawyer that their marriage was not legal.


The stated reason was that because the partners live in Florida and England, where same-sex marriage remains illegal, their Canadian union was invalid too.


The case threw into question thousands of marriages non-residents entered into since 2004, when same-sex marriage became legal in Canada under a Liberal government.


In a statement, Nicholson said the issue centres on dissolution of marriages performed in Canada.


Non-resident couples who marry here must live in Canada for one year before they can legally divorce. The lesbian couple at the centre of the controversy has launched a constitutional challenge of that provision in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice.


Nicholson said he will be "looking at options to clarify the law so that marriages performed in Canada can be undone in Canada."


Read more: Ottawa to explore same-sex divorce options | CTV News

[Alexandria]

....Well; glad that turned out to be a red herring.

[Revan]

Regardless of how Canada is on immigration and what not, I personally think it's still a bad thing. >_>

[Filip]

Originally Posted by aidan

As one source pointed out:

Well, let's not take the slippery slope here too far. If these people are indeed living in Canada, then there is no problem. They get the benefits living in Canada entails. It's just that they can't take a bit of Canada with them any more when they go home.

So if Saoudi-Arabia forbids women to drive, they're perfectly allowed to drive in Canada. However, it would be folly to go back to Saoudi-Arabia with a Canadian driver's license, there to break the local laws and then expecting Canada to back them up on this.

Doubly so if they just zipped in, got some paperwork and zipped out again. They took zero investment in Canada, so they don't get to expect any more effort from Canada on their part.


That said, there would be better ways to enforce this. Like, say, a treaty with the US to guarantee that contracts (as marriages essentially are contracts) are transferable between nations when the parties move. But that's probably legally complicated and if the U.S. isn't forthcoming, I can see how the government doesn't feel it worthwile to fight other people's legal battles because they just happened to be in Canada one day in their lives to get married.

[sokk]

Once again.. is this a surprise to anyone? What can you expect with a right wing nutjob evangelist as a PM? Do you think he'll work for us, for LGBT rights!??! HAHAHAHA, then you're dumber than I thought.

It's obvious that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. He does whatever he thinks is best, he doesn't care about the people, he never has. He said he wasn't going to reopen debate on abortion either, but whataya know.. there was a debate on abortion last week! Yeah, you weren't going to reopen it, riiight. Stop lying you A'hole. We all know your true intentions, your agenda, no matter what you say. We're not stupid!

---------- Post added 13th Jan 2012 at 11:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Alexandria

Disappointing but unsurprising given our current yankee kissing government. However, it reads more to me like either a legal cock up or an immigration thing, as previously stated.

Either way - canucks, make some noise and fix it.

Yep, just like Harper said he would have more transparency, yet at the same time he sold out all Canadians, and treated all Canadians as criminals with the new border deal, just so he could suck ass to the Americans. He basically sold out all Canadians, every Canadian is now registered and Big Brother (USA) is watching. Yeah, more transparency my ass. Just another case of little ol Stevie saying one thing and doing another. Disgusting. Then again.. nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to this small minded bigot. He has ruined Canada, More Canadians are unemployed, more Canadians live paycheck to paycheck, the middle class is shrinking and so is the country's GDP. Does all of this sound good to you? It's all Harper's fault. He ruined Canada.

[Fintan]

So at the end of the day, all the fear-mongering about "Canada just imposed a global Proposition 8" or "Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper squashes Gay Marriage" etc turns out to be untrue.

As Prime Minister Stephen Harper said before and continues to say until he is blue in the face, Gay Marriage was voted on in Parliament and he will not reopen the issue. Simply, as long as Stephen Harper is Prime Minister, Gay-Marriage is here to stay.

To summarise what happened: It seems when the Supreme Court of Canada pressured the Liberal Government of Prime Minister Paul Martin into legalising gay-marriage in 2005, they left a legal loophole which essentially stated that if you were gay, not-Canadian but married in Canada, and your home country did not recognise your marriage then Canada didn't either.

Today, Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper honoured his word and said the Justice Minister would make the required changes to ensure that any gay-marriages performed in Canada would be recognised by the Canadian Government, whether or not those involved were Canadian. Also, the couple has the right to a divorce in Canada.

Gay Marriage will be so far entrenched in Canada (10+ years) by the time Harper leaves office that its here to stay folks.

National Post: Same-sex marriage law to be changed to recognize gay tourists

OTTAWA — The federal government is working quickly to change the law so that the marriages of the thousands of gay couples who travel to Canada to wed are legally recognized in this country.

“We want to make it very clear that in our government’s view, these marriages should be valid,” a senior government official said on Friday.

“That’s why we will change the Civil Marriage Act so that any marriages performed in Canada that aren’t recognized in the couple’s home jurisdiction will be recognized in Canada.”

The legislative change will apply to all marriages performed in Canada regardless of the laws of the jurisdiction in which the couple live, the official said.

But in a separate statement Thursday, federal Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said the Harper government has no plans to reopen the debate on same-sex unions and the definition of marriage.

“I will be looking at options to clarify the law so that such marriages performed in Canada can be undone in Canada,” he said.

The statements came in the wake of a political firestorm that broke out Thursday after international headlines suggested the Canadian government doesn’t legally recognize the marriages of foreign same-sex couples who were married in Canada because they could not legally do so in their home state or country.

The controversy was sparked by a Toronto court case involving a foreign lesbian couple, who wed in Toronto in 2005, now seeking a divorce.

The couple wed in Toronto in 2005. Under a court order, they cannot be named.

A federal lawyer contended the couple cannot divorce in Canada under this country’s laws since they were never really married here.
Their marriage is not recognized in Canada if it is not recognized in their home jurisdictions — in this case, Florida and England, the lawyer said.

Friday’s amendment would fix a legislative gap in the Civil Marriage Act, the official said, and legally recognize the validity of same-sex marriages in Canada.

However, under the current law, Mr. Nicholson acknowledged that marriages of non-Canadian residents performed in Canada “could not be dissolved in Canada.”

Under the Divorce Act, there is a residency requirement that a couple must live in the country for at least a year in order to divorce here.

The government will not yet be looking at changes to the Divorce Act, as that legislation is much more complicated, the official said.

The official said the Conservative government is moving quickly on the issue.

“The confusion and the pain that is resulting from this gap is completely unfair to those who are affected, and I think we saw that yesterday in the coverage of these poor people who woke up to this news,” the official said.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper, while speaking in Halifax Thursday, was quick to attempt to dispel the controversy. Although he said he didn’t know much about the case, he was clear that his government “has no intention of further opening or reopening this issue.”

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by sokk

Once again.. is this a surprise to anyone? What can you expect with a right wing nutjob evangelist as a PM? Do you think he'll work for us, for LGBT rights!??! HAHAHAHA, then you're dumber than I thought.

It's obvious that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. He does whatever he thinks is best, he doesn't care about the people, he never has. He said he wasn't going to reopen debate on abortion either, but whataya know.. there was a debate on abortion last week! Yeah, you weren't going to reopen it, riiight. Stop lying you A'hole. We all know your true intentions, your agenda, no matter what you say. We're not stupid!

---------- Post added 13th Jan 2012 at 11:59 PM ----------

Yep, just like Harper said he would have more transparency, yet at the same time he sold out all Canadians, and treated all Canadians as criminals with the new border deal, just so he could suck ass to the Americans. He basically sold out all Canadians, every Canadian is now registered and Big Brother (USA) is watching. Yeah, more transparency my ass. Just another case of little ol Stevie saying one thing and doing another. Disgusting. Then again.. nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to this small minded bigot. He has ruined Canada, More Canadians are unemployed, more Canadians live paycheck to paycheck, the middle class is shrinking and so is the country's GDP. Does all of this sound good to you? It's all Harper's fault. He ruined Canada.

Sadly, I am forced to agree to some extent. However, things have not gone near as bad as I expected when he got into office, and he did accomplish one thing I'm glad to see gone, but that's another topic. I don't think he ruined the nation a la bush/obama but he's done it few favors.

[scrivener]

I do not see how the issue could be surprising.

If you have to travel to another nation to obtain a legal certification, then of course it isn't going to be recognized by your sovereign nation. Contracts and treaties between nations are rarely if ever upheld outside the boundaries of international trade agreements. Why would a marriage in another nation be valid in the home nation where it is not legally recognized?

[zeratul]

Whewww, so this whole thing was basically a bad news article making things way out of proportion and the impression it left doesn't strictly agree with the truth.

So before you guys open your mouth about your "World Proposition 8" and the other person calling Prime Minister " right wing nutjob evangelist " when you are not even from Canada, please, don't open your mouth and remove all our doubts about you ....