2 Bi Brothers? And my family doesn't know and are anti-LGBT

How old is everyone in this situation?

What I would suggest is you and your other brother speaking to him privately. Telling him you know, all your worries for him, that you haven't told the rest of your family, and that you're there for him.

You're right that he's most likely depressed because of the way your parents are. Think about it this way, how would you feel if you told your parents something but you knew if you did they would hate you for the rest of your life? Those sort of situations really damage people, he's probably going through a lot of inner turmoil and hates himself.

If you and your brother speak to him, show him that you're there for him and he doesn't have to be alone, that he has someone to talk to, it'll greately help. In this situation your brother should come before your parents. He wont be able to change how he feels.

Also just to add, depending on how you found out about him, he might react somewhat hostile. If you were "snooping" on him for example. That's why it's better for you and your brother to do it together, you can both be patient and supportive in case he reacts slightly hostile or denies it. Even if he does, just show that you're there for him and the fears he most likely has (telling your parents) hasn't happened.

 

Yeah, I suggest the same thing as Pluvia, it would be better to talk to him together with your brother. Let him know and feel that he is loved and understood. There's no rush in asking him to come out to your parents if that is something he is not comfortable with. Just let him know how much you care for him and that you do not want any sort of trouble for him. You can also introduce him to this site were he can speak his mind and find the online support he would be needing. But most of all, what he need is understanding, love and affection from someone close to him, and as his older sibling you should let him know how much you want the best for him.

Please let us know what happens next... All the best...

 

Yeah, try to talk with him about that, both you and the other brother and say that you won't tell your parents and he is not alone. Does he know that the other brother is bi? At least that could help if he knows that he can help him about everything.

 

You other brother did speak too didn't he? It wasn't just left to you to do most of the talking?

Anyway his hostility was to be expected, but it's still good that you spoke to him regardless. Even though it might not seem like it right now, and even though he's in complete denial, the fact he knows he has your support is ultimately a good thing. I doubt you'll be getting any information out of him soon (but that depends on how his talk with your brother goes I guess) but still, you showed him you love him and are there for him, he'll realise that once his anger has subsided.

This part here now will be a strange one. You said you didn't want to bring it up again in case it upset him, which is fine, but it's probably not a good idea to "ignore" the situation and wait for him to talk to you when he's ready. He might just retreat further into the closet that way because, from his perspective, you'll have brought it up and after he got angry at you and denied it, never mentioned it again. The signals that you'll be sending him by doing that would be mixed and confusing.

You don't have to mention it though, chances are that'll just make him angry and deny it again, but you could have exchanges like this with him:

"Hey, how're you feeling?"
"I'm fine."
"Ok. Well if you ever need to talk about anything remember me and your brother are here for you."

By saying that for example you're not directly mentioning it and you're further reinforcing the fact that you're there for him. You can have exchanges like that every so often, because he's probably not going to open up for quite some time judging by the state of denial he's in.

So yeah I'm happy for you, and I hope your brothers talk with him goes well.

 

You're such a great sister! You did everything right.

Assure him that if he needs to talk with you about anything you are there for him. Continually ask how he's doing, he will eventually come to you.

His hostile reaction is due to fear and shame so don't take it personally.

 

Alright, just to make sure I understand the situation correctly...

You're straight, and your younger brother is bi-sexual. You're the only one in the family who knows about his sexuality. Recently, you discovered that your older brother had posted an online ad looking to have sex with another man and woman. Apparently, he's also into cross dressing, or at least having sex with someone who is cross dressed.

You then outed him to your younger brother. After that, you planted the seeds of the possibility that he isn't 100% straight in your mother's head, and she took it really badly.

Later (presumably the next day), you confronted him and he angrily denied everything.

Take a moment to put yourself in his shoes. Hell, take out the issue of sexual orientation and kinky sex out of it all together. Let's say you were in his position. You were posting ads online looking to hook up with men for vanilla hetero sex. You've been leaving late at night to do this, and coming home in the early hours of the morning. Your mother is questioning what's going on because it's mysterious behavior.

Your younger brother discovers what you're doing, and then (without telling you) goes and tells your older brother that you're hooking up with strange men to have sex with that you meet online. Next, he's in a conversation with your mother and she's bringing up your strange late night behavior. To which he tells her, "Oh, do you think she's leaving late at night to sleep with strange men she randomly meets on the internet? I don't know, just throwing that out there as a completely random possibility." Next, he and your other brother finally confront you with proof of your actions out of legitimate concern.

What would be your response? Are you going to fess up and tell them that you are meeting random men off the internet to have sex with in the middle of the night? Or are you going to deny it with your dying breath - to hell with the evidence?

Now, factor on top of that the issue of sexual orientation AND the fact that he's getting his kink on and his siblings know about it...

Do you see why this would turn out the way that it did? I think his reaction was completely predictable.

Don't get me wrong. Your concerns are 100% legitimate. However, you've potentially made the situation much worse. Especially with the conversation with your mother, just imagine how worse things could get if she started interrogating him or started snooping and found something.

In my opinion, the best advice right now is to do some serious backtracking. I wouldn't have a conversation with him in person as it's likely to lead to another angry argument, and he'll fall into more fierce denials.

Instead, I'd write him an e-mail. In that e-mail I'd apologize for handling things poorly, but emphasize my concern for his health and safety. I'd tell him that it's okay to delete it and not reply, so long as he reads it to the end. I'd let him know that I'm preparing to drop it all together, and not bring it up again unless he wants to talk about it.

I'd be clear to state once again, that you love him, and that you only had good intentions. I'd make sure he knows that it changes nothing between you both, and that you and your brother support him no matter what. End it with asking him to please be safe, and letting him know that if he ever wants to talk that all he has to do is ask.

This allows you to say everything you need to say, and puts the ball in his court. He might not respond, and if he does it might be with an angry message. However, unless he responds with opening up to you - just drop it all together. The ball is in his court, and you've done everything you can do.

You've expressed your concern. At the end of the day, he's an adult, and he's going to make his own choices - good or bad. He's then going to have to live by those consequences. So long as he knows your door is open to him, then you've done all you can do - for now.

Your brother may have better luck (hopefully) in getting through to him, especially if he comes out. However, coming out is risky due to the situation with your parents. The situational dynamic there between your brothers and your parents could quickly spiral into a bad and chaotic situation.

The good news is that when the time comes for them to come out, all three of you can stand together united. This means what happens to one of them happens to all of you. If one gets disowned, then the two others can walk away with them. This puts your parents in a difficult position where they can't disown simply one child, they have to disown all three.

In an ideal and perfect world, your other brother would open up and be honest. However, we don't live in that world. Coming to terms with your sexuality is a process and a journey. We have no idea where he is along that process. It is clear, however, that he isn't at the point of self-acceptance. Which is clearly where your younger brother is... ultimately, hopefully, he will get there. And when he does, he'll open up.

However, until that happens there isn't much you can do for him. If you want to help them, begin by chipping away at your parents bigotry. Challenge their views with your own, but don't drag your brothers into it.

You may not be able to change their minds, but it does make it clear to your brothers where your loyalty is - no one will be able to mistake where you stand. It could also soften them up for a time when your brothers are preparing to come out of the closet to them.

However, whatever you do - don't drag your brothers into it. That's a lot of risk for them.

 

I agree with the above, you shouldn't have discussed this with your mum and told your brother what you know. You probably should have got your younger brother to come out to him and ask your older brother his orientation.

It is not all bad, as you have shown concern for him and this may make it easier for your older brother to come out. At the moment he may not wish to come out, and no matter how it was worded or approached he may have vehemently denied it.

If he is still reacting defensively, then you and your younger brother should drop the issue. Subtly reminds that you are ok with homosexuality, like saying how you think a gay celebrity is brave for coming out might be worth doing (rarely, don't do it all the time). You could also tell him that you are there if he ever wants to talk with you and so on.

 

I 100% disagree with you Aldrick. The OP has done nothing wrong and she has nothing to apologize about and in no way has she made the situation worse.

As far as I'm concerned she could not have handled the situation any better.

 

Really? You don't think her bringing up the issue of his sexual orientation with his mother unnecessarily was a bad idea? You don't see how this could potentially plant a seed in her head unnecessarily? What happens if she goes around snooping to find out the truth now that the seed has been planted, or starts to interrogate him in an effort to get to the bottom of what is going on? You don't see how this has the potential to end really badly for him - something that she clearly would want to avoid?

That's the main issue I have with the way things were handled. It was just completely unnecessary, and has the huge potential for blow back. Aside from that, as I said - I think her concerns are 100% legitimate. I just think she should have handled the discussion differently, and needs to understand why he denied it so strongly even though she had such strong evidence.

 

She spoke to her mum before she came here for advice. That wasn't a good idea, but it's already happened, can't change that.

Backtracking and apologising wont change it either, it'll just make it seem like she thought that speaking to him with her brother was a mistake. It wasn't.

You say it was handled unnecessarily, yet from a safety (he's sneaking out for random sex) and well-being (he's clearly depressed) stance she handled it well. Of course he's going to deny it, but that doesn't change the fact that he now knows he's not as alone as he thought he was.

So yeah I disagree strongly with you too Aldrick. Backtracking, apologising, and basically closing doors wont make anything better. Showing that she and her brother are there for him will.

 

I realize that she had that conversation with her mother before she came here. However, it's important that she realizes how damaging that conversation could be, because there will be instances in the future where the situation might come up again. It's my hope that her mother doesn't go around snooping, and making her brother's life difficult. Otherwise, it's going to end badly, and it could possibly rip their entire family apart judging by the way her parents handled even bringing up the topic.

This is a very delicate situation. Things have to be handled carefully. Being confrontational isn't going to solve the problem. There is a real risk that she and her brother could push their older brother away entirely. If he is medically depressed, he could even be suicidal, do we want to setup a situation where he feels trapped and that there is only one way out? There are so many potential unknowns and factors going on here, that caution is the best way forward.

We only know how things seem from her perspective. We don't have her older brother's perspective, and in the end only he knows what he's feeling and what is truly going on. We don't even know his sexual orientation, it's possible that he could just have a cross dressing fetish. Alternatively, he may be struggling with gender identity issues. We just don't know, and her knowledge is similarly limited because he won't talk to her about it.

If he were just hooking up for anonymous vanilla hetero sex, then the way things were handled weren't that bad. However, there are clearly a lot of other issues going on here, and one of the major ones being depression.

What I am suggesting isn't so much backtracking, it's trying to reset the situation. Full on confrontation, in which he's totally trapped, isn't the most tactful way to handle the problem. By writing the letter, you give the situation time to cool down. She's already vocalized her concerns about his safety, and at this point it's in his hands. He's an adult, she can't stop him from doing what he is doing, she can only vocalize her concern and that's pretty much it.

This is where the tactful part comes into play, and how it might have been better to handle this situation in the beginning. Once the situation has had time to cool down; that's when she can approach him about his depression. Separate out his depression from what he's doing, because that's going to be a conversation ender.

However, if she talks to him about his depression, then there is the possibility that she could convince him to seek professional help. Once he's getting professional help, then he has the opportunity to talk about these other things that are going on in his life.

Then from that point forward, you give tactful little openings. You strive to create a safe environment. You strive to create a situation in which he feels comfortable opening up and talking about what is going on. Once he's gotten over the hurtle and has opened up, that's when you can have the more direct and honest conversations.

It's the difference between forcing him to open up and getting him to open up willingly. She's stated that he's depressed, and by everything she's listed - I'd agree with her assessment. There is a huge danger in trying to force a conversation like this on someone in a fragile state of mind. You don't know what the consequences will be.

Hopefully, we'll find out if her younger brother had better luck in his private one on one conversations.

 

The worst situation is her mother finds out. Backtracking wont change that, it'll just make it look like she's telling her brother that speaking to him was a mistake.

If his parents find out then that's even more of a reason to show he has his siblings support. That he has two people who love him and who will stand with him. Backtracking and showing him that if she wouldn't have spoken to him if given another chances sends the complete opposite message of that.

Even more of a reason why telling him that speaking to him was a mistake is a terrible idea. She needs to show that her and his brother are there for him, that he has someone to turn to if he wants someone to talk to, and that they'll support him.

All of those things can be done without backtracking and telling him it was a mistake to talk to him. You can't "reset" the situation, it happened, nothing can change that, but she handled it well. If she didn't speak to him then he'd be in the exact same situation, except he wouldn't know that he has his siblings support and that he can turn to them if he needs to.

That's far worse.

He knows that he has people there to support him now. If his parents find out it's better that he knows he has people to support him. If he's suicidal it's bettter that he knows he has people to support him, especially if they understand why he's so depressed.

 

Pluvia -

I think you misunderstood my original use of "backtracking". I didn't mean it in the sense:

That's not what I meant at all. I meant it in the sense that she should concede that the situation was handled poorly, and that she's sorry that it upset him. Not that she wouldn't speak to him about it if given a chance to do it again, only that she would have handled it in a more tactful manner.

Hence this is why I said:

That's a big difference. As I said in my original post her concerns are 100% legitimate. It's not a choice between saying nothing, and confronting him directly. It's a choice between handling it in a tactful way and handling it in a way that is not tactful.

Sometimes, having good intentions isn't enough. Sometimes, good intentions blow up in your face and have bad outcomes. That's a real danger here.

I think she had very good intentions, but handled things poorly. As a result, it's important for her to try and reset the situation, so that she can attempt a different approach to get him the help he needs.

 

No it was not a bad idea. Even if it did plant an idea in her mother's head it's about time she wake up to the possibility that her son could be gay.

I really don't see how differently the situation could be handled to be honest and his reaction would be terrible no matter what.

 

That's absolutely nuts, and goes counter to everything we'd want to achieve. Do you really believe potentially (accidentally or not) outing someone who is most likely depressed (and potentially suicidal - at the very least self destructive), is a good idea? I can't imagine in what universe that would be a good idea, especially considering we know exactly how his mother would react.

You avoid forcing him into a corner, and trying to drag him out of the closet. It will almost always go badly, and have the exact opposite of the desired effect.

Instead - if we could travel back in time - I'd recommend that she speak to her younger brother. They keep what they've learned in confidence, and talk together on the best way to show their support over a long period of time. There needs to be a period of trust building, and creating an environment where he feels comfortable being vulnerable.

More directly related to his current situation, they could have staged a mini-intervention over his depression. This no doubt ties into his current situation, and is almost certainly the cause of his self-destructive behavior. I'm quite confident that he's smart enough to know that he's taking risks and being unsafe. As a result, it's not really relevant to discuss with him, because it's not the source of the problem.

The mini-intervention would be to try and persuade him to get into therapy. I'd encourage them to do their best to find him a good, creditable, and capable therapist. Drive him to his first few appointments, if necessary. Do whatever they can to get him the professional help he clearly needs, and then create a supportive environment that he can lean on.

Let the therapist handle issues about his sex life and self-destructive behavior, because it's more likely he'll open up to a therapist (lower risk) than to members of his family (high risk). Ideally, he'll eventually find himself in a position where he'll be able to be honest with his siblings about his sexual orientation, gender identity, or whatever the hell is going on with him. They could then support him fully and more directly, standing united against their parents.

This is more likely to have the desired end result, than a direct confrontation. Even if he declines therapy the first time, you can continue to approach him about it again and again - without him feeling like he's being outed. That means he'll be more open minded about it and less defensive.

If I had to make an assessment based on her description, I'd say he suffers from serious depression. Setting everything else aside, if he does have serious depression then it isn't something that can be solved with a pat on the back and a few words of love and support. It's something that requires professional assistance and prolonged love and support - more in action than in words.

By trying to reset the situation (which is what I am suggesting), the goal would be to try and achieve the above stated goal - get him the professional help that he needs, show the support that he needs, and try to move forward.

 

How would we have known how her mother would have reacted if she did not test the waters?

He isn't going to kill himself because his sister and younger brother tells him that they know he is gay and they still love him and are there for him whenever he needs to talk.

 

Because she had already tested the waters previously when her younger brother came out to her as bisexual. It's also apparently well known what stances her parents take on the issue, so it's not exactly shocking. Here is what she wrote:

That's in relation to her younger brother. She was hinting around generically after he came out, to gauge her dad's reaction (which was negative). She did the same thing with her mother in relation to her older brother, though it was much more direct. As this is a reoccurring theme, it was super important to bring up why it's a bad idea to do that so she doesn't do it again in the future.

We don't know how fragile his state of mind is at this moment in time. We also don't know how deeply in the closet he is, and what exactly his issue is - labeling him as gay is totally pre-mature.

It's also a larger issue than simply being approached about sexual orientation. She didn't go into detail about what she saw or what the ad he posted said, but it had pictures of him in the ad. It appears as if he was interested in cross dressing (so he may have been dressed up in the pictures), the pictures may have also had him nude, or exposed in some sexual way. He was also interested in hooking up with both a man and a woman for a threesome, likely a straight or bi-couple; that's what M4MW means: Man looking for Man and Woman to have CDS (Cross Dresser Sex).

Unfortunately, people - especially LGBT people - have been driven over the edge toward suicide for less. Considering a lot of the things she wrote about are signs of depression, as well as that being her own assessment of the situation, and he's engaging in self-destructive behavior that's no doubt related to that depression... On top of which we don't really know his true state of mind.

I simply don't feel comfortable telling someone to charge into a situation like this, and feel that the best course of action is to get him some professional help as quickly as possible. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can have the most noble and best intentions at heart, but that doesn't always lead to good outcomes.

Unfortunately, she hasn't been back to these forums since her last post on the sixth. So this entire discussion is pretty much moot.

 

She isn't charging into the situation. She basically told her brother she knows about him and she is there for him and accepts him and he can come to her whenever he needs to talk just like her younger brother did. I see nothing wrong with that.

I agree that he probably needs professional help but if he doesn't want help then there is nothing more she can do for him.

She isn't to blame for where he is in his life right now.

Right now the ball is in his court and he needs to make a decision.