Notice the speech marks. Previous Threads: http://emptyclosets.com/forum/sexua...rs-worrying-constant-ocd-about-sexuality.html http://emptyclosets.com/forum/sexua...ntity-support/102054-clarity-help-please.html And now I'm in a good place. I was as "HOCD" as possible, constant intrusions, anxiety, worrying, but I didn't find things attractive. I'd stare at pictures every day, over analyzing, begging for clarity, help, please. It never stopped, and whilst its never to far away from my mind now, I can definitely say that I'm bisexual to some extent and proud of it. What changed? A little bit about me, for those who might benefit from relating to my case: - 18, male, beautiful and sexy girlfriend. - Never been with a guy, don't plan to, I know this means I may never truly know my sexuality 100 percent, but I feel like I have the perfect person for me, if that ever changes, I am open to either gender. - Hand washing obsessions, alignment obsessions, obsessing over zippers, basically any part of my life where its not black and white that something is finished, done, finito. Ever had a zipper that didn't go right to the top on your jeans, that fucking ruined my day, thanks Levis. - Never once lost my attraction to girls, whatever the weather. - Started by obsessing about the guy's ass on the E.T Katy Perry video after it was pointed out in the article. Looked over and over again, made myself feel like i had a fever, sweating, shaking, insane behavior that made me lose a lot of sleep. - Noticed a guy in real life, unlike girls I didn't get butterflies or any of the good stuff, but there was something about him that made me worry. I'm sure that was some sort of attraction, however strong now. - That guy became the source of my "obsessions", I looked at pictures constantly, trying to test myself, I literally couldn't stop looking, the same sensation filled me as when I obsessed with hand washing and the like. I fantasized, it didn't work at all at first, it just felt wrong. Then after a while I got there, didn't seem as good as girls but I got there. Now I can do it with a smile on my face, these fantasies are hot, guys can be hot, and that has zero effect on my attraction to girls, never has, never will (though obviously I can't say for sure). - Porn - Gay porn - Well, when I first watched it, it was like I was on Viagra (not that I know that particular sensation), but now I struggle to get turned on by it, its mostly just neutral, they're attractive guys, but the connection isn't there in the same way as with girls. I generally don't watch guy/girl porn, I enjoy solo girl porn much more, and will always go for a girl in socks, the schoolgirl outfit is a favorite of mine in real life and fantasies. Its very rare that it goes up a lot without some encouragement with my hands to gay porn, but with girls thats not really needed. That being said, when I do get the party started, its a pretty good party, and its hot, and I get there all the same, definitely attractive, hot etc... - My girlfriend is like my diary, there's nothing she doesn't know about this. - Never been to a therapist (despite saying I would in one of those posts) as I have the opportunity to work in government in the future. Hence why I don't ever say I have OCD any more, despite my family members who don't know about my orientation struggles thinking its just fact that I do from my all round behavior. I was at the point of or near the point of orgasm, after teasing myself for a ridiculous amount of time with tonnes of those joi vids, I decided, why not test myself thinking about a guy, so I did. It felt great, I thought of a guy and it seemed good and was possibly the thing I wanted to do it to most at that time. This gave me a bit of clarity as I had a slightly more concrete attraction to a guy. Now I'm happily bisexual, I have great sex with my girlfriend regularly, its exciting and fulfilling, despite that sentence being probably the least exciting and fulfilling way to put it. I still have some way to go, I get a sickly excited feeling which makes me very anxious, to do with guys, I do my best to look at images of really hot guys, trying to satisfy what I think might be an urge, but it doesn't go up. I then try masturbating and fantasizing about guys and I get there but I don't get there as quickly as the "urge" would lead me to believe, as I have had similar feelings for girls in the past, (we are talking in the last week or so) and my arousal matches the urge so to speak. But I when I do masturbate thinking about guys, that sickly excited feeling is present and adds something to the experience, and I'm proud of the feelings I do get. The sickly excited feeling goes away briefly, but comes back sometimes very quickly and the whole process does feel like one of my old worries, that sickly feeling playing the part of the pure anxiety i used to feel. Now, I had great morning sex with my girlfriend, just got a boner writing that, then the feeling came. So I found some hot pictures of a guy and got it up with some hand encouragement and did it very quickly, I'm proud of this part of my sexuality and it felt good. But then the feeling comes back again, I thought to look at the pictures again, it gets stronger when I look at the pictures, I really feel like I should be getting turned on due to the strength of the feeling, but na-dah. So I'm looking at it, and I can't stop now, its kind of becoming obsessive, but I want some, I don't know, justification for this feeling, but I don't get it. Maybe in time, or maybe this is something else. Walking down the road I will notice girls and get a, wow, she's hot, awesome feeling. Walking down the road and I see a hot guy, I go that's hot, and then I keep looking, analyzing, worrying why I can't just accept it in a way that I do with girls, I don't feel the need to keep staring. That feeling of definitive attraction I get with girls I have never got fully with a man, in anything, porn, fantasy, whatever, but I worry that this constant anxiety is an itch I need to scratch and I'd like some opinions on that if possible. It never really gets in the way of my relationship any more, and I just want the feeling to go away as I'm really happy with my girlfriend whether its there or not, and it doesn't even hamper the sex, no matter what we doing, I know I'm in love with her, on every level (boner again, damn it). I got a ways to go. But it used to get in the way of my relationship, when I didn't accept it, when the thoughts were way more intrusive. Especially, when I believed in something called "HOCD". Now, it is VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY rare, if you have no other obsessions, that this is real at all. HOCD does not exist, obsessing about one's sexual orientation does, but those who have OCD exhibit obsessive behavior in many parts of their life usually. That's all been said many times by many people, but I thought it might be useful for some people to see someone like me saying it. Are you more obsessive than me? Because I might not even have OCD. If possible, you should definitely get help immediately, and without fail, accept everything that is happening to you. As someone who has been through this, I know it's not as easy as that. Sooooooooooooo: - Fantasize, but take your time, what turns you on, turns you on, Simba. - Be proud of your attraction, if my girlfriend and I don't work out, I have twice the amount of potential partners. - Be happy in the grey, if that's what you are. Not everybody is black and white, I think I'm a Kinsey 1 or 2 right now, but who knows, and who cares! - I've been lucky enough to not have religious condemnation or a homophobic group of friends to add to the confusion, if this is the case for you, you can do better. You can get better friends, and you can find a better God. -I got thoughts like, what if this invalidates my straight attractions? What if I NEED to be with a guy, won't I always be a closeted guy even if I'm open to that part of my attraction with myself and others, if I'm never with a guy? My opinion on that is, as long as your as honest as possible (we don't have all the answers) and you are fulfilled, sexually and emotionally by your partner, whatever the gender, then you don't owe it to yourself or others to be with the same sex, though I'd love some more opinions about this, as I do still worry about this myself. Now I've accepted that part of me, I'm still the same, its just an add-on, rather than me losing any attraction to girls, lucky me! It's a horrible, horrible thing to go through. When your struggling to accept yet you don't know what your accepting, but it gets better even for people like us. I'm here to say that the answer isn't black or white but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Obsessions don't validate or invalidate anything and the truth will reveal itself the more you accept, but even though it's torture I know, be patient. Because the more wired up you are the more confusing it can be. Even though I don't know if I'd enjoy being with a guy at all in the same way I would with a girl, I still think I'm Bisexual, and I'm so proud of who I am. I feel like one of the lucky ones in all honesty, and coming from where I was to where I am now, that says a lot. I hope this helps someone, thank you to those who have helped me. Any questions, I would be happy to answer, and any advice or support would be helpful, as I don't have all the answers, and there's still some things that need clearing up. I can't believe how much happier I am now.
While I'm happy that you say things are going better for now, refusing to go to therapy for your obsessive behaviour is really setting yourself up for failure. If you acknowledge you have a problem and you're aware there are people who can help you through something difficult, I'm not sure why you would choose to forego that option. If you do have OCD (which none of us here can formally diagnose you with), it really likely isn't something you can manage on your own. Medications and other therapies can help with that. I can understand wanting to avoid it to keep the possibility of a certain career intact... but lying about yourself is not going to help you get that job nor keep it (if you manage to get it). Please reconsider your opposition to going to therapy, as it really is the best choice.
Thanks for the advice, I understand it is the right thing to do. But recently, amazing opportunities have opened up, giving me a chance to really make a positive impact on the world. This is bigger than me, you know? I certainly hope you don't get the impression I'm lying to myself, though I do think you meant in terms of employment. Honestly, it's a part of me that's been there for as long as I remember, a different state of mind so to speak, I feel like I think differently about certain things in part due to that, and it gives me a useful perspective. I really would get therapy, but having it shut off opportunities, I just simply can't do it. I'm proud of who I am now though, which is one less thing to obsess about, I understand its not a functional way to be, my brother has many problems, psychosis being one of them, and he feels he can function in a certain way, though he has had therapy and almost died. I'd be hypocritical if I didn't say its not a wise decision for me but at least I'm in a good position now, with great people around me, with a good direction in life. If there is any way I can get help without doors shutting, please let me know ---------- Post added 11th Aug 2013 at 05:12 PM ---------- My apologies, the intention of my original post was to help people going through a similar situation from someone who has, somewhat, come through the other side, with a way to go, which I thought would help some people, I didn't mean to make this about me for the most part, I hope this helps someone!
Why you would believe that getting therapy to help a medical condition would somehow keep you from getting a given job is simply nonsensical. It would be like saying "I won't get hired if they know I have a broken leg, so I'm not going to go to the hospital to get my broken leg set, because then people will know I broke it." If you have OCD, which seems possible from what you're describing, and OCD would keep you from the government job you want (which seems unlikely, since it would be an ADA violation to discriminate against you), it's going to be obvious once you're hired anyway. And you clearly desperately need therapy from what you've said above. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier once you've had therapy and whatever treatment (medication) is appropriate. OCD does not have to be a permanent condition, but leaving it untreated is doing a disservice to yourself as well as those who care about you.
Thank you, I wasn't aware that it wouldn't be an issue. If what you say is correct, I certainly will get some therapy, though medication would be a last resort. One more thing, regarding medication, I've heard horror stories about people getting pretty messed up by it chemically. I'm a musician, and music is a huge part of my life, and I might just be being silly here, but if there was even a chance it could effect the creative part of my brain, I'd be very much against medication :/ Also, do the U.N have to abide by the same regulations?
Not sure about the UN, but in general, getting therapy for a mental health condition such as OCD is not something that would keep one from being employed, and in the US, at least, it isn't legal to ask someone about health conditions as a condition of employment, so there's no way they'd find out unless you told them. As far as medication, there can be some effects while you are on it, but to my understanding, there's nothing permanent once you are off of it. I'm not up to speed on current trends in OCD treatment, but from what I do know, it can sometimes be treated effectively with therapy, and other times, medication is a huge help. I wouldn't automatically rule out meds; the first step is therapy with a psychologist, and if s/he believes you need meds, the next step is to discuss teh possibility with a psychiatrist. You can always get the full PDR disclosure for the medication they're proposing and see what the potential side effects are before deciding. Keep in mind that you're in control of the process all the way along. Nobody's going to put a gun to your head and require you to take meds if you don't want to.
Thank you so much for that information, its really helpful and genuinely new to me as I thought I had a choice on my hands between having the life I want and sorting whatever problems I have in my head out. I understand this isn't quite the usual thread for here, just goes to show how helpful and informative this forum is! Will definitely seek professional help now.
I have been thinking that this HOCD is real since the start but I started to feel like it was denial when month 2 came around. However something happened to me that no one on here seems to understand or have happen to them. They say HOCD is not a stand alone symptom and you would have noticed early on in childhood and have showed the signs. Well much like discovering your own sexuality OCD can develop or 'realization' can hit later in life. I noticed a while back I have a bad thing for locking doors and turning off lights and will go well out of my way to take care of them. I even remember losing my temper and getting angry because I had to check the door that I had just checked a second again to see if it was locked and it was. I had to train myself that when I left that you just have to hope you locked or say you did lock it. Yet for all the people out there it is highly unlikely that you would only worry about just your sexual orientation unless you have been nervous about that before which in most cases is most likely denial. Anyways you probably want to know what happened to me that was a little different right? Well come about the 5th week that I thought that I was in denial I started trying to test myself by looking at girls and hoping for arousal. Well why blankly staring off I thought I was looking at a hot momma but then I realized I had been looking a little to the left of her (while honestly in my vision I was just staring off into the distance into the ocean) and I realized there had been a young girl in my vision. From that moment on I have been afraid I have POCD. Now before people judge me I have never had a dream, fantasy, or desire to be with young people (Hell I feel uncomfortable when it says teen porn and am rarely attracted to people outside my own age). I went through all the exact same steps just with POCD instead of HOCD. I was praying to god to just make me gay because I couldn't handle being a monster and was having an equally hard time as that with dealing that I could be gay. I had little memories of moments of when there may have been a sign to come and much like being gay there weren't many. They would even switch off when in control as my POCD seemed to kick in with mainly girls as that would counter the HOCD so I thought I must have OCD. For a long time they were going back and fourth and a lot of times when I thought I was one the other wouldn't even cross my mind. My heart was ponding when I had to hold my baby nephew for the 1st time since the obsession began (who I have held many times before that with no problems) and I almost fainted when my niece wanted a kiss on the lips when I had to go. I was so ungodly thankful that I didn't get jolts or anything from either but the fear was still there, and still is. This would continue for about another month until the POCD finally calmed down a bit and went into hiding and the majority of the time I had HOCD which I have been dealing with for the majority of the time and have had more difficulty with that. From there other odd obsessions started to kick in. I started becoming nervous about incest, transgender, and even that I was attracted to animals. You wouldn't believe how many times I've gotten jolts to animal pics...I like photography and have an amazing shot of a male buffalo that I have always liked but now can't even look at without getting nervous. There are pictures of things that have given me jolts that NO human being on the planet could or would ever get aroused to. I even looked back at my past and realized that I have had obsessions about acting out on violence since I was a young kid that I never gave much thought to because I knew I couldn't do it. Then I thought to myself omg if I had super powers or a way to get out of trouble that Id do those. So that scares me in an obsessive way and I do my best to avoid those thoughts as well. With the exception of the violence, doors, and light obsessions the others all started after I became obsessed with my sexuality. Even right now I'm going through the exact same crap but now I'm focusing on the fear that I'm a transgender and could give a crap about who I'm sexually attracted to. I hate the idea of being a girl and I want nothing to do with being feminine and having girl parts. It scares me and I doubt that I am so why am I obsessing over this? Better yet why am I obsessing over all of this? Do I sound like a monster to you? In the end I have been suffering with these all by myself for about 8 months now. Every day I wake up worry about at least one of those while going to sleep worrying about another. I spend anywhere from 10-12 hours a day worrying and questioning. I hide a lot inside away from people playing my stupid video games or going on the internet and I'm so ungodly sick of not having a life that its killing me. I have wanted to call out for help and go to therapy but I'm so afraid they will say I'm a monster and throw me into a cell or something that I fear it almost as much as them. So ask yourself are you really just feeling in denial or can you truly say that this is an obsession that you don't know where its from? If your scared don't do what I've done, ask for help now and stop the worrying and stuff now!
There's no POCD. THere's no HOCD. There's no "not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk" OCD. There's no "checking the door locks 100 times" OCD. There is only OCD. From what you (worldtraveler) are describing, it sounds like your symptoms could be consistent with OCD, but you would need a proper psych evaluation to determine that. Don't be afraid of someone hating you or believing you're a monster. What you're describing does not sound at all like pedophilia, and does sound consistent with OCD so the therapist will immediately recognize it as such. Please make an appointment and get help.
And so I finally meet Chip...You are an anti HOCD legend on this site haha. But seriously I 100% agree with you about what you are saying there. For me the way I learned about OCD was because of what I read and for me its easier to say I have different OCDs because I obsess over different things at different times and its easier to say POCD then saying that I'm...well...I don't like saying it and I hope you understand why... Its terrible...I haven't been able to have just one day to myself where I could have normal thoughts. Before this all I could think about was traveling...I haven't wanted to think about even leaving my house since this started. Even now I'm on my stupid computer constantly searching up signs and symptoms of all these. I have lost my life and am afraid to apply back to a college in fear that I will get accepted and have to leave the safety of my house. I had to have a few drinks tonight (which I hate doing to calm myself) because I'm back to being afraid of obsessing. You should have seen me earlier...I thought I was going to blackout and throw up just because I can't calm down over something I'm not. I don't want to be a woman! Yet I'm so obsessed that I have been in denial about this all my life... Sorry I'm ranting. Yes this was the last straw I have contacted my 1st therapist via email and going to call a different one tomorrow to try and get help.
Chip, I know you say HOCD is bull, but do you think it's possible that a person coming out to themselves could suffer yet even more due to suffering from OCD? I mean, there is already anxiety, but with this condition, there would be yet even more doubts, fears, and worries than with your average bear. If so, I'd like to hear how a possible gay man might have to adjust their process to meet their needs accordingly. Also, agreed on the therapist part. I actually got out of a health clinic since I was feeling so unhinged, but that was due to my major depression, medication side effects, and stresses of coming out to myself. Also, suicide hotlines and support groups are your friends.
Too be honest I wouldn't be surprised if I'm in denial...but all of this other stuff just isn't right or normal for someone coming out. You have to admit to yourselves have you honestly ever thought about these other things? I mean come on, no one I know has ever had to worry incest, animal, pedo, or trans crap. I'm terrible at processing stuff and realizing when things are going on but come on! There is no way I could be all these things. Yet I get these damned jolts and random thoughts that have never been there and shouldn't be there. Like I said right now I've got a couple of drinks in me. I'm calm, I'm not obsessing, and I'm currently content/happy and very much wish I could stay this way. I know I'm not a trans, pedo, have no need to worry about violence, and animals? haha yeah no...The gay is still up in the air yet if I was at a bar I know all I would notice are women (for some reason no matter how hard I try its only women I focus on when in this state). However...as soon as I wake up tomorrow nothing will have changed...I will still be nervous, panicky, scared, anxiety ridden, and probably a little depressed. I truly hope I just worry about being gay as the trans has freaked out almost much as POCD (easier to focus on in my opinion). I have kept a journal about all of this since it 1st started so I know I'm not crazy (or am crazy and can keep record) so I don't know. Even when I'm in current state I am right now I can't get it up to any porn. Its not fair...If I was gay wouldn't gay porn as least give me jolts? Its so boring (which seems to offend people in which case sorry)...Lesbian not much better but at least I can get some action there...straight is just to awkward for me at the moment and trans...oh god how I'm fearful of that right now. See if at the start of when I was questioning my sexual desires the gay videos would have done exactly the same as what the trans are currently doing while I tired trans awhile back and unless there is an actual woman involved meh. They are making me nervous as hell to watch them and I'm afraid I could finish to them yet have no desire and feel the need the need to test myself watching them. THAT IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHEN I WENT THROUGH QUESTIONING WITH ATTRACTION TO GAY. Porn I know is a terrible showing of what you are really attracted to and I should lay off, yet in the end if it is the same it will just bore after a while...lord (who I can't say I really believe in) help me...
OCD is generally treated with a combo of meds and exposure therapy. You really must go to a psychiatrist for treatment, and you're gonna have to fight this for your entire life, though it gets better if you stick to your treatment. worldtraveler, stop watching porn for the time being.
If you're asking if there are people who are gay, who also have OCD, yes, of course that's possible. But it's also somewhat counterproductive to think in those terms. It's relatively obvious to a professional (and sometimes to a non-professional who's familiar with OCD) what sort of symptoms are likely OCD and what symptoms are likely denial. The problem is, you can parse everything a person with OCD says, explain clearly why there's no possible way the person is gay (or whatever it is s/he's concerned about), and s/he is still going to ignore that and try and justify the obsessive thought process because... that's how the disorder works. That's why, if someone is asking questions about their sexual orientation here, particularly if they're asking variations of the same questions over and over, and getting the same answers from dozens of people... and still arguing with them... that's a case where the person needs a therapist, not a group of perhaps knowledgeable but otherwise non-licensed/non-professional people to help sort things out. Worldtraveler... you're a textbook classic case of what I'm saying. I'm not trying to discourage you from posting, but it's really pointless to keep bringing up the same points over and over, because no matter what anyone says, you're going to keep obsessing... which is why you need a good therapist to help you get matters under control. I'm glad you're getting started with that. In the meantime, try and remind yourself that there's no point in obsessing over anything, and that your therapist will help you better understand yourself. And please stop using terms like "POCD" and "HOCD" because it further confuses the issues for others, and is disrespectful to people (possibly including yourself) who genuinely are struggling with real OCD.
