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Lithromantic?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by kissedbystars, Feb 2, 2014.

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  1. kissedbystars

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    So, I've been looking at my identity lately and thinking I might be Lithromantic. Like... There are several definitions of Lithromantics.
    1. Someone who feels romantic attraction but does not want it to be returned.
    2. Someone who feels romantic attraction but does not care if it is returned
    3. Someone who feels romantic attraction, wants it to be returned, but does not feel need or requirement of return for satisfaction.
    4. Someone who likes Romance in theory but never in practice.

    Depending on the person, I'm always a mix of the first three definitions of it. So... basically, does anyone else ID as Lithro?
     
  2. Chip

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    OK, not to devalue you or anyone else, but I draw the line at this one.

    It is NOT a sexual, romantic, or any other kind of orientation. It's a personality/psychology problem. I could go into a lot of detail as to the underlying causes, but it is not genetic, not ingrained, not unchangeable, and labels like this are, indeed, really dangerous because they encourage people to simply put up with personality traits that could easily, with therapy, be explored and resolved.

    I completely understand what it must feel like to have these attributes, but please, please don't fall into the trap of believing that "this is who you are" because it isn't. Any more than people suffering with depression are "depressomantic."

    What's important to understand here is the feelings you have are most likely a result of either low self esteem, or a concept called "foreboding joy", which is basically where you learn not to expect anything so that you won't be disappointed if/when whatever it is you are after doesn't come about. Both of these have elements associated with underlying shame, which is a deeply held belief, sometimes unconscious, that someone isn't worthy of love and belonging. And shame is certainly not genetic, and most definitely not unchangeable, but it is something that everyone has, and LGBT people usually more so than our heterosexual counterparts.

    There's a lot you can do for yourself to change your outlook and address these issues, and I'd encourage you to talk about what you're experiencing rather than labeling it and convincing yourself it's who you are... because you deserve much more in life than an existence where you don't care whether someone loves or cares about you. All the research in this field shows that we're hardwired for love and connection, and those of us who don't feel it are missing out on something beautiful and wonderful... and I think if you open to that possibility, you'll end up a whole lot happier. :slight_smile:
     
    Etereo, Love4Ever, 18breanna and 2 others like this.
  3. Tetraquark

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    I identify as lithromantic, definition 1, with respect to men. I can have crushes on them but have no desire to have them reciprocated. With respect to women and non-binary people I'm gray-aromantic -- I rarely get crushes on them, but when I do, I do want to act on them.

    Can you please stop? Even if you don't intend to, you are devaluing people's experiences, especially since you clearly have not researched what it means to be aromantic spectrum. Aromantic people are just as capable of love and connection; they simply don't seek these things via a romantic relationship. There are plenty of other relationship structures that can provide the same benefits.

    Also, just because something is developed over the course of one's life doesn't mean it can be changed. (See, for example, schizoid personality disorder, for which there is no known treatment that is effective.)
     
  4. Chip

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    I'm sorry, but not on this point. Lithromantic is not a romantic or sexual identity, and there's almost no disagreement on that point by any credible researcher in the psychology or sexology community. We do not do a service to anyone by misclassifying a psychological problem as a romantic or sexual orientation.

    And yes, certain personality disorders have little to no effective treatment once a person reaches adulthood; however attachment disorders (of which the symptoms described as "lithromantic" fit) are not in that category.

    Again, I'm not trying to belittle anyone and I realize that challenging something that people believe may not be comfortable, but it's not doing a service to the greater community of readers who may be wondering what they're feeling when they have this symptom picture to let them believe that this is a "romantic orientation" that is fixed when it is anything but.
     
  5. Tetraquark

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    I fail to see how diagnosing people with attachment disorders over the internet is doing the greater community of readers a service, either. Especially given what I said about close non-romantic relationships, how do you know that this is a psychological problem that needs fixing?
     
  6. stocking

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    Interesting
     
  7. OuterSpaceACE

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    Wow. How'd you get to be an admin with that attitude? You are totally trying to marginalize someone else's experience just because you don't relate to it. I've heard it a million times when people tell me I'm missing out on some fundamental life-affirming human experience by not being sexually attracted to anyone or having sex. Get over yourself. People are different. If the person is happy and fulfilled that way then it's not a disorder. Disorder means it's something that distresses you. Societal "norms" do not dictate what is "natural" or "right" or even "healthy". I am glad the OP defined this term. I never knew what it meant...I thought it meant attracted to intelligence, but that is sapiosexual maybe. I don't personally identify as lithromantic because some degree of emotional reciprocity is necessary for a relationship based on egalitarianism (for me). I would however be totally ok with no physical reciprocity. What I mean is that lack of romantic reciprocity (for me) would introduce an unequal power dynamic that I would find undesirable. It's totally within the realm of possibility that some folks don't desire and equal distribution of power in their romantic bond, or they might not feel that lack of reciprocity skews this dynamic. That really depends on the people involved. People that want to dismiss something like this wholesale fail to understand the subtle undercurrents that give rise to diversity in relationships. If all romantic relationships looked exactly like what CHIP has described, what a boring vanilla world we would live in. All of that said, I think identities serve us better when we think of them as fluid. That way we don't close ourselves off to exploration.
     
  8. BradThePug

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    How about we both stop? We've had this battle in the demisexual thread, and we don't need to have it again. We are not going to convince each other that asexaulity is real or not real. This battle has been fought once, do we really need to do it again except this time in a support and advice thread? Let's just say our opinion and move on.
     
  9. Saintly89

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    I found this post to be interesting. I have been in situations where I was really indifferent to whether or not my crush returned my feelings. They were enough
     
  10. Chip

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    Just for the record, I'm not diagnosing anyone. The point I was making is that the symptomology described for "lithromantic" are consistent with common attachment disorders, and, as I mentioned above, the byproducts of shame. There may be (probably are) other disorders associated with those symptom patterns as well. I agree it's not anyone's place to offer individual diagnoses based on web postings.

    I'm also fine with anyone that wants to label themselves in any way they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Where I draw the line is when we perpetrate as legitimate an unrecognized sexual or romantic classification, for which there's almost zero support among the professions who look at such things, as that doesn't help people coming here looking for credible advice and information.

    What's next? We tell people who come here knowing they're gay and wanting to make themselves straight that they're welcomed to do that and we'll fully support them? We could use the same arguments being used for this point -- that we're belittling and demeaning people for their beliefs -- and there's actually more published research (though it's all fraudulent or really poorly designed) supporting the idea that we can change sexual orientation than there's research validating the existence of a romantic or sexual orientation meeting the above criteria.
     
  11. OuterSpaceACE

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    Sigh. I thought we were past this. So sad I have to bring out this old thing:
    From the wikipedia article on the DSM:
    "In 1952, the APA listed homosexuality in the DSM as a sociopathic personality disturbance. Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals, a large-scale 1962 study of homosexuality, was used to justify inclusion of the disorder as a supposed pathological hidden fear of the opposite sex caused by traumatic parent–child relationships. This view was widely influential in the medical profession."

    So let's take this real slow: science does not validate or invalidate people's experiences. They can study me until they run fresh out of grant money and their conclusions won't change my experience as an asexual one little bit. If someone experiences their interactions with other people as lithromantic, then who the fuck are you or an army of sexologists to say that's wrong? The hypocrisy is astounding. Oh, we'll agree to disagree because I wouldn't be caught dead in that asshat you're sporting.

    ---------- Post added 3rd Feb 2014 at 07:50 PM ----------

    Yawn. Is this how this forum rolls? Admins just going around telling people their identities aren't real? Fuck that noise.
     
    #11 OuterSpaceACE, Feb 3, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  12. BradThePug

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    If you would look at the other thread that I mentioned, we have had this conversation. Insulting me is not going to get you very far, at all. The reason that I made the above post is that this conversation is still ongoing in the chit-chat forum. I don't think that support and advice is a place to argue about the validity of an orientation.

    While you may not agree with what Chip is saying, he is being respectful. You are the one that has been disrespectful in this thread.
     
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  13. OuterSpaceACE

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    I don't monitor every thread to avoid redundancy. The OP asked about whether anyone else Id'd as lith. Not whether respectful CHIP thought it was the sign of an attachment disorder. He went off topic, not me. There's nothing respectful about pathologizing other people's experiences. So thanks, but when you come at me and tell me or anyone else their experience isn't real/valid/healthy then I'm gonna call you out on it.
     
  14. BradThePug

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    That's why I made my original post, to try to stop the redundant argument.

    I'm not the one that is saying those things, so don't treat me like I am. As you can see, I'm an ace identifying person. You don't need to call me out on anything.

    As I said before, feel free to respectfully disagree. Saying " how did you get to be an admin with that attitude" is in no way respectful.
     
  15. OuterSpaceACE

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    I have located the thread you referenced and moved my discussion over there. I have taken your comments out of context and I apologize. I do not feel that an admin should be expressing the views that CHIP is expressing. I think it is unfortunate that this forum does not have a policy prohibiting it (if that is indeed the case). I will be making a formal complaint.
     
  16. MossyCave

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    I think this is more of a psychological thing than a sexual orientation. This is exactly how I feel and I've never heard this term before. I've always, ALWAYS felt this for guys, so when I started liking girls as a teenager I thought I must be gay because my feelings were more normal than my feelings for men.
    I don't know why I feel this way towards men, I know I do like men, but since I can remember I fancied guys but couldn't imagine being with them, yet got really sad thinking about them with someone else. I always thought I was just happy with loving from a distance, but always knew it wasn't really normal. I'm not really like this anymore, it's kind of there but not as much.
    Maybe you should do some soul searching as to why you feel this way?
    I agree with the admin, I totally get that people can call themselves what they want, but for example, if someone feels attraction for a sex but refrains because of past abuse then that's not just "the way they are", they're not suddenly demisexual.

    Liking a sex in a certain way doesn't seem like an orientation to me, unless it can be split into emotional and sexual/physical attraction because those are actually orientations. Like if I only liked men with red hair I wouldn't say bisexual hetero-rouge-romantic. If you have a "type" then you're still attracted to that gender, just because you're not attracted to all of them doesn't make it a new orientation.

    Again, people can do what they want, I just personally don't think it's technically an orientation.
     
    #16 MossyCave, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2014
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  17. eddddddddd

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    hello sir chip?

    I have been wanting to ask you about this term but by obvious reasons youre probably busy. I had an incident about this and i wish you could help me, bc it really sucks : (
     
  18. Chip

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    Unless it pertains directly to this thread, it would be better to either start a new thread or PM me.
     
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