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Ten years of this...

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by DukeOfNewYorkA1, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Not even my therapist(s) know what to make of this, the only thing they tell me is that I seem to be "sexually punishing myself." The only physically intimate encounters I've had were with a woman, twice, and neither time was I able to climax-- imagine that, a guy who's never experienced physical intimacy before not being able to climax on his first time.

    Actually, I kind of feel ripped off, because it wasn't even a year ago. But in my own 'research' I've noticed that my reproductive organs become more... excited when I watch homosexual (male on male) pornography, of if I'm talking flirtatiously with another like-minded male, where as with straight pornography, or virtually anything with women in it, I'm never completely aroused, nor was I when I was physically intimate with the woman.

    Yet, whenever I go to pub on "Bear's Night" (heavyset, hairy homosexual men-- my demographic and preference for a potential partner) my reproductive organs are on fire, but because I feel like I'd be defiling myself, or shaming my family or just doing something wrong out of sheer Catholic guilt (I was raised Catholic by a Jewish convert mother-- that's a lot of guilt right there) so I bail and go home and 'release' that 'reproductive energy' and wait until the feeling goes away, only for it to return within at least ten minutes.

    I've been doing this for ten years. It's the longest game of fight and flight. I thought being physically intimate with a woman would make the confusion go away, but it did the opposite, making it about ten thousand times worse. Now I'm just sort of lost, wandering around, trying not to think about about how much the idea of engaging in receptive homosexual physical intimacy arouses me for fear of shaming myself, family or whatever.
     
  2. mobrien1993

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    It seems to me that you're not confused, you know what you want you are just afraid to go for it. Maybe you would feel better if you didn't put a label on everything, instead of looking at it as I like a guy and might be gay, look at it as I like someone and it just happens to be a guy and that's alright. Hopefully that makes sense. You should go for what you want, life is short.
     
  3. Yeah, I know I'm a 'Kinsey 6' as some might put it, but I'm just not willing to accept that, yet. What's crazy is every guy I come in contact with finds me really attractive (and I love the attention) for some reason and we're always flirting for four hours before I bolt, go home, release my 'tension' and try not to think about it.

    It was in the summer of last year (2013) that I had my first physically intimate experience ever. I was 25, I hooked up with a girl a year younger than me and I... did not have a good time. Like I already said, I couldn't climax, I didn't even come close to climaxing, actually. I felt like everything I'd learned from my parents about intercourse was a lie-- my father always told me that the first time a guy has intercourse he climaxes in about three seconds. I was intimate with this girl for two hours and my reproductive organs weren't even fully excited. Some of my friends called it 'performance anxiety,' others said it was because I had just walked three miles in the heat. Maybe it was because I wasn't really attracted to her-- all I know is that the only time my genitals reach full stimulation is upon interacting with other potential male partners or viewing homosexual pornography.

    But again, there's the whole Catholic guilt from a Jewish mother thing going on, and I don't even want to get into that. She's always in the back of my head, waving a finger at me if I'm imagining engaging in receptive homosexual intercourse she'll point down and in my head I'll hear a nagging voice say "That's not what that's for! That's for excreting your waste!" Or something like that. But I'm not sure what I should do to absolve her mental influence.
     
  4. mobrien1993

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    To me it seems like you are just not into women, which is fine. It seems like your mom has a strong influence on you and you want to make her happy. Which is understandable. Just remember that you need to find out what makes you happy. I mean if you love. The attention you're getting from these guys I would say live it up, you don't necessarily have to go out with them just have a great time getting to know them and maybe they will help you figure out what you really want if you are still questioning things.
     
  5. I'm honestly not into women at all-- I mean, I see you're a woman and no offense to you or anyone else here, but I'm completely repulsed by the female reproductive anatomy. And I rarely pursue relationships, I'm more of a "let's see where the night takes me" kind of guy, so I suppose bringing a guy home for once would do me good. I just need to buck up and do it.

    But yeah, I love my Mom, she's probably my best friend, yet now and then I'll get a call from her asking me: "Why haven't you found yourself a nice girl yet?" And I'll just sort of have to redirect the conversation to something else, like how we both hate my younger brother's ex-wife or how annoying and strange my Dad's mother is. But she drops the whole "Are you gay" question now and then and I always deny it-- frankly I'm very old school about the whole thing and I don't think people who don't need to know or wouldn't want to know are better off not knowing if I'm not comfortable with it.
     
  6. mobrien1993

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    I don't take offense to that at all. I completely understand. Maybe bringing a guy home for the night would help you out I mean there's no commitment and you could make sure that's really what you want. As far as your mom I can relate because my mom and I have a very close relationship and she is like my best friend. To be honest if you guys are really close I don't think she would be too bothered by the whole gay thing, however I can understand not wanting everyone to know your personal life. Just whatever you do be sure to be safe, there's so much that can happen. But definetly just go out there and have a good time and see what happens. I would love to know if everything works out.
     
  7. AKTodd

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    If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like your issue is based on a combo of religious and family based guilt.

    Would it possibly be helpful to talk to a pastoral counselor of some kind? Specifically a priest or equivalent from a denomination is that is LGBT friendly? I realize that religious people can't really just change their faith at will, but being able to talk with someone who can address your orientation in a positive light from a religious perspective might be helpful for you.

    As far as your family is concerned - I would hope that the fondest wish your mother has for you is that you should be happy and know love. If that happiness and love is grounded in having a relationship with another man, is that so bad?

    My best friend was raised Catholic and her parents certainly are still practicing. And they've met both my partner and I and think we're great. We get invites to their home, we get together for Sunday brunch when they're in town, etc. So being Catholic, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee rejection of gay people.

    Just some thoughts,

    Todd
     
  8. Chip

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    Hi, and welcome to EC.

    Based on what you've said, this is a shame issue. there's almost no question about it. The message you're describing aren't guilt (which is "I did something bad") but shame ("I'm a bad person.")

    Basically, shame is a deeply held belief that we're not worthy of love and belonging. So on an intellectual level, you can acknowledge that you're only attracted to men, but when you try to act on it, you run into problems because the messages you get from your mom and your religious background is that it's fundamentally wrong and bad to be gay... and since being gay is who you are, it means that, to your unconscious, you're a bad person.

    As long as you run away from having sex, going out, etc... you can sort of maintain this separation of thought from action, and so there's a part of you that can keep the idea alive that maybe you aren't really gay. But if you were to actually find someone at the bar, meet up with them, have sex with them... you can no longer deny what you're feeling. Likewise, the unwilingness to come out to your mother is also an indicator of shame (again, the fear that she won't love/accept you as you are, that you're fundamentally unloveable because you're gay... at least, that's the unconscious message). The "It's no one's business but mine" is a very common "red herring" that people use when they aren't comfortable with who they are, but it's dangerous because it's sending the message that you have to hide who you are.

    So... again, assuming what I've said above is correct, a couple of thoughts:

    First, if your therapist(s) haven't been able to figure this out, you need to find a therapist with experience in shame resilience work (basically, the work of Brené Brown) or get your therapist to study the work. It will make an enormous, and likely pretty rapid difference in your life.

    Second, you can start yourself by watching two of her TED talks:

    [youtube]iCvmsMzlF7o[/youtube]
    [youtube]_UoMXF73j0c[/youtube]

    and if the work connects for you, get a copy of "The Gifts of Imperfection" and "Daring Greatly"

    The good news is... this is a very solvable problem. It means going into the beliefs and working through some shame issues that aren't fun to think or talk about... but I think it will make an enormous difference for you
     
  9. Hey, thanks for the responses!

    I should have made it a little clearer that neither me or my Mother are religious-- she's a lapsed Jew who converted to Catholicism early in life and later lapsed out of Catholicism as well and was eventually excommunicated from the Church after her divorce from my father-- a Baptist (who is one of the few people who knows of my orientation and, despite his strong religious background is actually very supportive of it). I attend a Buddhist Zendo for meditation and they're very welcoming of people of all walks of life, there. As for my mother, she doesn't believe in anything bigger than herself now that her mother has passed away, except maybe the mall (which I have a hard time arguing with, as we both love shopping :eusa_danc).

    So what I'm getting at, this isn't a religious based shame, but rather just one instilled in me by the feelings of guilt and shame I was naturally raised with by her, I think. She was never overtly religious, she just enjoyed being domineering and extremely overbearing and overprotective when I was growing up and I guess that rubbed off deep in my subconscious.. which is why I have such a hard time with myself.
     
  10. StillAround

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    Absolutely. I've had to deal with this most of my life. And the shame, especially when combined with the fear of rejection, can be really, really, powerful. For me, 56 years powerful.

    But what a difference a gay-friendly therapist and EC can make!

    Good luck, and stick around here. Join us in the Later in Life Forum. It sounds like a bunch of old farts, but it's not. There's a lot of wisdom there, and a lot of posters are not that far from your age.
     
  11. Well, the one therapist I had is gay and a specialist in sexuality, but because I no longer have health insurance I can't afford to pay out of pocket for sessions with him with my current paycheck, which is a shame, because he was my favorite therapist-- which is saying something for me, because I don't like most psychoanalysts.
     
  12. Choirboy

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    My mother and I had a highly coded conversation years ago, close to the same age you're at, where she basically was asking me if I was gay, by telling me that if I WAS, it was OK to tell her. But I was way too programmed to speak up and say so, because I was also raised on that old familiar Catholic guilt! (I still am one, so I'm not bashing Catholicism, but let's face it, there are definitely some expectations of marriage and family that are pretty well hardwired into us.) Flash forward to 2014, and I'm 52, married for 20 years, with 2 teenage kids. I wouldn't give them up for the world, but I have to tell you, it's much harder to pull myself out of the closet now than it would have been at your age.

    Ultimately, what you do has to be based on your own conscience. God doesn't make mistakes, so the fact that you are gay doesn't make you some kind of reject. Catholics make their own decisions on birth control and a variety of other issues, the position of the Church notwithstanding. How you live your life has to be based on YOU, not in a selfish way, but because you can be a better PERSON if you aren't living a falsehood.

    Moms are tough. Mine has been gone for close to 30 years and there weer days when she drove me nuts! But I still miss her. Speaking as a parent, though, in the end, what she wants is to see you happy. If you let her know with confidence and love and assertiveness that you are gay, not to hurt her, but to avoid hurting YOURSELF, you have a good chance of making her understand eventually.
     
  13. duende84

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    Dude, I know the feeling and a word of advice. You need to get yourself laid (in a respectful way).

    Remember this - a thing that YOU do for YOURSELF in your OWN PRIVATE capacity is YOUR OWN BUSINESS and has nothing to do with your mothers conscience or anything.
    What I do with other boys is none of my parents business. I love my parents very much and I have great respect for them but they aint living my life for me. It is already a tough one not being out to them. But it has not stopped me from "experimenting/soul-searching/discovering" who I am on many levels.

    Do not punish yourself. Life itself is tough enough.

    Give yourself a bit of a break bro.

    D
     
  14. Yeah, you're right. That's why I engaged in intimate physical intercourse with a woman last summer, I figured since all my friends always said the same thing "Bro, you need to get laid," or "Bro, it's the most amazing thing ever" and I found physical relations with a woman to be lackluster, at best leaving me with a ten mile walk of shame home. In retrospect, I could have taken the bus, I could have called a cab, but I was so perplexed by my own mixed feelings after that I couldn't do much critical thinking. I just walked through the city until I got home.
     
  15. duende84

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    Okay - that is a good start. You managed to do what I could not even pull off with a seriously hot girl that was waaaay into me.

    Next step... find yourself a guy friend. First befriend him and then as you grow familiar with him suggest to him you want to have some intemicy. Dont just go for a one-nighter.
    Because, if you can make friends with a guy of your same age group and character you can for a start have someone with whom you can have meaningful converstions about a variety of topics including what you are going through.

    A few beers shared betweem mates whilst talking about matters of the heart. Just sharing experiences is more worth than months at a therapist (that is my own opinion and should be taken with a pinch of salt please. I have been to therapists in the past and it was a humiliating and rather worthless experience and expense). My last buddy-therapy (with a bottle of Chivas) did me the world of good and my buddy as well. The hangover the next morning prevented me from procrastinating so it serves both ways I guess.

    You are not alone dude (*hug*)
     
  16. Thanks, yeah it is. Still that must've been the longest walk of my life.

    As for getting a guy friend-- that's no problem, considering about ten of them are all over me.
     
    #16 DukeOfNewYorkA1, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2014
  17. duende84

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    Great! Here is your mission: make a date, a casual one... ;-)
     
  18. That's the easy part, that will only take five minutes, tops. I just need to figure out how to mentally prepare myself.
     
  19. duende84

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    Tell yourself you are doing it for yourself. You are charting "new waters" and exploring the neglected side of who you are.

    Like buying that really exspensive pair of shoes you always stared at in the shop window. You are buying them for your own enjoyment. For no-one elses feet. Because they make you feel good. (*hug*)
     
  20. Well, I think I know what you mean-- from the beginning I used gay dating sites, and now, later in my more 'experienced' years, apps for smartphones (which weren't around just a few years ago) and it sounds dumb, but I love posing for a camera in a sexy position-- it always makes me feel good about myself for some odd reason. Or when I'm at the bar, dancing in a somewhat provocative outfit-- I feel at home. I don't know, it doesn't make a lot of sense, I guess. That's just the way it is for me. :confused: