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Am I Overreacting Or My Pastor?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by bisexualkpopfan, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Hello, I hope you guys are having a good day :grin:

    Anyways, I've been having some anxiety and getting upset over some of the stuff my pastor that I'm forced to listen to says about LGBTQ people - But I'm also feeling guilty because at first, he would talk about gay people like an attack on the government and that it was impure, and now, he still thinks it's sin but he is kind of watering it down - Like once, he apologized for not having more programs around to help people with same sex attraction (even though that does no good) and then, he was preaching a message on if you don't tithe, you are taking away the brotherhood (or not caring about one another) and he was giving example of people who don't care about brotherhood because "oh, my uncle's on drug addict, oh my sister's a prostitute, oh my daughter's a lesbian - It doesn't matter because they are all the same to God." I feel like I'm being too sensitive now that he's watering down his message a bit, but it still bothers me a lot and he is still saying that if I don't change, I'm going to Hell...

    So, am I in the wrong or him? I still feel so bothered by what he preaches and I am really trying to escape going back - Am I the one that's crazy? I really don't know what to do :frowning2: He tries to make it like God loves it, but I get so upset when thinking about what he says because what is so wrong with liking girls? Please help if you can, thank you.
     
  2. Clay

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    You're not in the wrong, you've done nothing wrong simply because you like girls.
     
  3. Hi, Pluvia, I remember you from the chat :slight_smile:

    And thank you so much for reminding me of that, it's just sometimes being around so many people who believe that it's wrong make you forget that sometimes, but thank you again, it means a lot!
     
  4. Pondering

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    Your pastor is definitely the one whose wrong. Remember that god has room in his heart for everyone. As long as your a nice person, he doesn't care who you like, what your job is or how you go about your daily business. You're not going to hell, and whoever tells you you are, definitely is.
     
  5. wolf of fire

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    I think he is the one in the wrong, he chose the religion with the issue you did not choose to be the issue.
     
  6. PatrickUK

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    This seems to be a classic example of "love the sinner, but hate the sin". It's absolute ****.

    You are right to remain bothered by his preaching. It's very simple - unless or until he is prepared to accept that your orientation is not sinful, you have nowhere to go with him or his preaching. The error is with him and his theology, not with you. Stand firm.
     
  7. Thank you so much, yes, that's true, it's just that with all the negative stuff I here from hi and my family, it's easy to let yourself get insecure - But thanks again for reminding me of that, it means a lot <3

    ---------- Post added 5th Jul 2014 at 11:44 AM ----------

    That's true, he DID choose to be religious, but I can't choose my love for girls. I just wish he could see that, but of course, he believes his religion is like fact - And although I believe God is real as a fact too, he's not supposed to take everything in the Bible so literally... Thank you for your response <3
     
  8. wolf of fire

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    Your welcome, if the pastor is an issue is there any way you can avoid him?
     
  9. all paths

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    Would it cause too much drama in your family & home if you said that you didn't wish to attend this church any more?

    And if you think your parents would have too much of a fit about that, and/or you still want to attend a church, could you pick one out to go to, separate from your parents, which is LGBT-affirming?

    Because I don't want to see your relationship with God or your faith damaged by a pastor who preaches out of ignorance, a hurtful and harmful message to you.

    You might start to believe that God sees you that way. :frowning2: And He doesn't.
    But it'll be hard not to project what your pastor says upon Him.
     
  10. Thank you for that, yes, his preaching is really based on the "love the sinner, hate the sin" ideology >< I will try my best to stay firm, but if I keep going to that church and if he keeps saying the things he is saying, it'll be really hard to - But thank you so much again, it means a lot :slight_smile:

    ---------- Post added 5th Jul 2014 at 12:29 PM ----------

    Not really, unless my parents let me help out in the children's church - But I'm scared that they might even be teaching the kids about that and if they do, I will no choice but to leave that too. My dad says they don't force me to go to church when I asked him, but still, every Sunday, that's where we are going :frowning2:

    ---------- Post added 5th Jul 2014 at 12:39 PM ----------

    It kind of would, because then they'll ask why I want to leave it, and if I tell them the reason why, they'll ask me if I'm gay, if they ask me that, I'll panic and although I'm likely not to tell them, if do admit to being bi, my mom will want to send me to the healing room to get prayed on for it and even send me to therapy (not ex gay therapy I don't believe but just therapy) - And I don't want that to happen at all. My relationship with God has already been damaged a lot. Sometimes, I get upset because the church has taken God away from me with saying that being bi is a sin - Ever since I questioned myself like almost 9 months ago, I decided to not talk to God until I would get rid of my attraction because I thought he wouldn't listen to me with "sin" still being in my heart. It's only recently that I've been discovering that God could still love me regardless, but my family and my church give me the opposite response. And now that I'm trying to get my relationship with God back like it used to be, it still is very hard to talk to Him - To be honest, it's really destroying my whole view on life together - And not only do I think about myself when it comes to these things, but to everyone here and others who I know that are LGBTQ too - When I think about God really throwing us into flames of fire, I then start to think life is completely hopeless and almost every night since last Sunday, I ended up crying a lot before bed and then thinking about suicide... I've been suicidal before, but not over this... I honestly just don't want to live in a world where love is wrong anymore... And I'm pretty sure there aren't any LGBT friendly churches here...
     
  11. I believe God loves us all. We were all created differently and what others may see as flaws may acctually be gifts. Your not in the wrong and its wonderfull when people are different. No matter what anyone's differencess are they are loved by me and God bolth. Best of luck. :slight_smile:
     
  12. Hexagon

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    You don't have to apologise for who you are. And people who say otherwise are not healthy components of your life.
     
  13. butHitlerisDead

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    Wait, are you still a Christian yourself or have you lost your faith?
     
  14. Damien

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    You call that 'watering down his message'? I will restrain myself so as not to offend your faith, but I will ask just one question: do you think that god would create someone as gay, bisexual or lesbian, and then punish them for it? Just for being how he created them in the first place? I'm curious to hear your answer...
     
  15. Thank you so much :slight_smile:

    ---------- Post added 5th Jul 2014 at 09:16 PM ----------

    No, I'm still a Christian, but my relationship with God has suffered because of all of this...

    ---------- Post added 5th Jul 2014 at 09:18 PM ----------

    Well, my parents act like he does nothing wrong even while hearing him say that, but it personally bothers me >< And no, He wouldn't, but my parents and pastor don't think we are made that way, that's it just a choice/mental illness...
     
  16. Damien

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    Well, it's neither a choice nor an illness. I can also tell you that being gay or lesbian is not condemned in most religions, but only in a few. And even in the Bible, you have to look pretty hard to find homophobic stuff. That infamous quote from Leviticus is often bandied about, I won't quote it here as I'm sure you've heard it often enough, but the folks who use it to justify homophobia are being grossly hypocritical. Why? Because in Leviticus is also says, among other very outdated and silly things, that someone should be stoned to death for working on a Saturday. So if they are going to say that homosexuality is forbidden because of one line out of Leviticus, they ought to be following the rest of Leviticus also, in order to be consistent - which of course they are not, and will not. What then, so it's ok to cherry-pick out just one quote, use it to condemn a whole lot of innocent people, but totally ignore the rest (of that book)? Can you see how hypocritical not to mention plain silly this is?

    I'm not into any particular religion, but I do believe and sense that there is an underlying Cosmic Order, and that whatever is behind all of this is surely much more good and kind than we are. And I do not know any human being who would punish someone forever, based on what they do in one lifetime, in any case. It's just such a horrible and cruel proposition to consider, that I have to be honest and say that, whoever or whatever god or the ultimate or whatever you wish to call him / her / it is, they would not do such a terrible thing. Really. The very definition of God is that God must be more moral than we are, not less! And the very idea of eternal punishment is such a cruel and petty idea that it flies in the face of goodness, truth and fairness. And even more so, the notion that someone would be punished just for their sexuality, is equally silly, because if two consenting adults of the same sex get together sexually, who does it harm? Not themselves, not anyone else, and certainly not god. In other words, it harms no-one! Why on earth would it need 'punishing' at all??

    I am interested in Buddhism and Taoism, neither of which condemn homosexuality in any way, I might add. But even when reading their scriptures, I apply my reason and intellect. I don't just accept that everything written in them is necessarily true. All religious books are ultimately works of mankind, however inspired the person was who received it in revelation, meditation or whatever; you must admit that if we trust in them blindly, we are then trusting blindly in the revelation that person received. How do you know it was true? How do we even know that my religious books, or yours, have been passed down accurately, and not tampered with over time? The truth is, we don't. That's why, although I do draw much inspiration from certain spiritual texts, I don't accept that I have to believe or obey every single word written down in them. The ultimate arbiter must be our own conscience, our own inner sense of what we know, deep in our hearts, to be right and wrong. And I think you must sense deep down, that there really is nothing wrong with being lesbian or gay. It does not harm anyone. It does not harm yourself. No rational explanation can be found as to why it should be regarded as 'wrong', all we have are a few lines from a few very old books written thousands of years ago.

    I'm not saying you have to abandon Theistic religion, but only to put the ancient books in their proper perspective. Don't let ancient books rule your life and your mind. I can admit that there are some good things in the Bible - the Sermon on the Mount, for example, has some pretty beautiful advice in it - but much of the other things in the Bible really are the writings of men from another time, another culture, when things were very different to today, and when fear and superstition dominated people's lives much more than they do today. By all means be inspired by the good and kind words of Jesus, if that helps you to live your life. But remember that your own conscience is, ultimately, the final arbiter. And as I said earlier, I think you must surely know deep down that being gay or lesbian, as it hurts neither yourself nor anyone else, is simply not wrong at all, and not anything in need of 'punishment' at all.

    Hope I have not offended in any way,
    in peace,
    Damien. :slight_smile:
     
  17. You have not offended me at all, oh my goodness, thank you so much for taking the time to write all of this! This is exactly what I needed, I needed to be reminded of the reasoning of all of this. I truly do feel like there's nothing wrong with being LGBTQ inside me, but the preaching and homophobic family made me feel insecure - But now I feel so much better! Even though I have to go to church tomorrow, I'll just hope my pastor says nothing bad about gay people and remember what you said! The part about God being more moral than we are especially helped me and what I needed a BIG reminder of - So again, thank you so, so much, I feel so much better!(*hug*)
     
  18. Damien

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    You are most welcome, I am glad that all the struggles I have been through myself regarding these same issues over the years, has resulted in me being able to help another, that makes me feel quite happy :slight_smile:
     
  19. all paths

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    I hope that when you feel like you have to go to church with your family, that you can spend your time talking to God just inside of yourself, and tune out the ignorance that the pastor may or may not be preaching. And if your ears "turn on" and unwittingly hear something negative being preached about LGBT folks, I hope you'll just talk to God in your heart and pray for those people saying and preaching that. Ask God to forgive them, because they know not what they do. <3

    I think you're a trooper.

    I know this is a hard time in your life while you're still under 18 and dependent upon your parents, and I think you're really strong to hold onto your faith at all, through this pressure and experience.

    Know that when you lie alone in bed at night, so upset, that God sees you and loves you, right there. He hurts that you're hurting, and I'm sure He doesn't want you to have to be hurt by this turmoil from people who don't understand. I hope you'll be able to take comfort in Him. Just you & God.

    He can be there for you, be your friend, be your unconditional love-er, apart from church life. Church isn't God. Just remember that. God is God.

    *hugs*
     
  20. IG88

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    You should not feel guilty about your pastor's preaching. You have to remember, he is not some superhero, someone with unfettered access to God's thoughts, he is human. He will make mistakes. And one mistake you already see him making is his thoughts on gay people. But, you have to remember that he was raised in a time where homosexuality was either seen as a disease/choice/abomination etc.. It's hard to get away from ideas ingrained at you from a young age, so just because your pastor is uneducated in this respect, don't take it to heart if he doesn't quite grasp the concept of what it means to be gay, and how that is separate from sinning.

    If you can keep that in mind while listening to his sermons, or rather, selective listening (ignore homophobic parts of sermon), then you can still attend that church. If you wanted to attend another church, then that would be fine too. My church isn't LGBT friendly, but I've never heard a homophobic sermon before, so if you could find a church like that then it wouldn't let on that you aren't straight. However, it's hard to find out which churches are like that without actually attending them for a while.

    You don't have to be perfect to start a conversation with God. In fact, it's impossible. Come to him with all of your thoughts/feelings/anxieties, because he already knows what your feeling and what your going to ask for.

    "8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." (2 Cor. 12:8-10, CEB).

    Remember that when you are weak, Christ is strong. And when Christ is in you, then you will also be strong. Rely on him to get you through the sermons, the day, the homophobic remarks made by your pastor and family. When the God of the universe is with you, then who can stop you? (!)