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Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more anger...

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Benway, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Benway

    Benway Guest

    It's hard to hate yourself, especially when your self-esteem is so low that you shouldn't hate yourself but those around you that have chipped away at you the entire time.

    That's what I've been doing. I've dwelt so much on my rage, how I betrayed people's trust and how in turn they betrayed mine by incurring my wrath as I incurred theirs back and forth like an empty swing flaying in the wind on an ugly early Spring day. I'm done being mad, all being mad has done is eat away at me like a bulbous cancer.

    I've suffered both abuses and kindnesses of the LGBT community, sadly the former outweighs the latter and it's (not because of anyone here on this forum) because of that I must say "no more."

    Some time ago I was talking to my father, and I had gotten a new smartphone and (suffering from extreme anxiety issues) and I told him that it kept scaring the crap out of me every time I got an email or a notification from an app. He said "Well, you can turn the sound down and set which apps you want to make noise alerts and whatnot," and I said "I need to be informed when (someone important) texts me, if not, I'll be in shit. He said "That's pretty inconsequential, if it causes you to suffer, remove it from your life."

    And much like many of the things my Dad says, once in awhile one of them is unusually profound and makes a lot of sense to me days, weeks or even months later. And finally it's resonated in me that being an active part in a community (not this site, but out here in the real world) that has done far more harm than good to me is not only unhealthy, but self-destructive. By allowing myself to engage in thoughts, feelings and behaviors that will eventually cause me such distress is killing me.

    In the last few weeks, my hair has been falling out-- doctor says it's due to extreme self-imposed anxieties, but my hairline has receded almost an inch in the last six months. I can't live like this and it's because of that I must bid adieu to the passive-aggressive relationship I have with my own sexuality. If I continue to engage in it, even if I'm accepting of myself, it will kill me and I don't want to die.

    This isn't a matter of repressing anything, it's a matter of accepting that my sexuality is detrimental to my well being. And so without any malice or phobia towards others who are able to enjoy being comfortable with their sexualities, I simply must reject my own. There's black circles under my heavy eyes, I look ten years older than I am and my thick hair is receding. This isn't for me. I'm impressed so many before me made it so far and so many after me are able to make it beyond the points I couldn't.

    I am weak, and that's okay.
     
  2. biAnnika

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    Benway, I appreciate your position. I appreciate you've tried. And I appreciate your open-mindedness toward others, even if you can't be open-minded about yourself.

    I'd love to know where your discomfort with your sexuality comes from, since you seem to have ruled out all the usual suspects. But it sounds like you would too.

    I don't know what else to say...it sounds like there's little we can say that will help. So just know that I/we care, and that if we can help in any way, we'd like to. I don't know whether your message was meant as a kind of good-bye. If so, then know that you're welcome here any time.

    *warm hugs for a troubled soul*
     
  3. Chip

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    Hi. I think I can understand what you are feeling, and it must both hurt and cause you enormous struggle and turmoil. That's got to be terrifying.

    The concern is, simply labeling yourself asexual because you don't want to own the attractions you have won't make it so. It's no different than, say, deciding you are 6'5" tall when the tape measure says you are 5'4". You can say it, but it doesn't make it true.
    What you need is therapy to work through the issues and learn to love yourself. I hope you will seriously consider it. If you don't, you are going to have an impossible task, and the unaddressed feelings will eat away at you.
     
  4. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    Thanks, I figure even if the local offline gay community may have contempt for my indecisiveness I figure the online world would understand better, as it's easier to get inside my head online than off. I'm just hermit in a hermit kingdom of my own design.

    Let's just say it comes from someone I once knew who just being around cost me an entire circle of friends, a circle I had to build anew from scratch. I've lost things, so many things, not just material goods, but identity, friendships, bonds, communications all because of this person, who happened to be openly gay-- or maybe not-- maybe just manipulative... and that this person was an openly gay racial minority, that wasn't the problem with this person, it was that this person was a locust in what was otherwise a spotless garden I had taken so much care in nurturing and nourishing and wiped it out in the blink of an eye. He ruined my life, my perspective on sexuality, personality, spirituality, politics, everything. I wish to speak of him no more as the very thought of him causes my back to contract and spasm as it does now just writing these words.

    It's true what they say-- you don't judge a person based on the color of their skin or their sexuality-- but when they use these things as tools to manipulate others into destroying friendships for the sake of their personal amusement... well, let's just say some prejudices I can't forgive. I hold no malice towards the gay community-- just this one person and because I don't want to be like him, I simply physically cannot be like him.

    I'll stick around the boards, I do like them.

    I mean no offense when I say this, but you cannot understand. I appreciate the thought, but no one can understand this as I do. It's a matter of sonder on the part of everyone around me. The anthill from which we all climb about. It is terrifying, and I'll live with it casting a long shadow over me for the rest of my life.

    I've seen countless therapists, doctors, I've been inpatient and outpatient in psychiatric wards, I've had CAT-scans, EEGs, EKGs, I've been cross-psychoanalyzed from here to Timbuktu. I've taken every psychotropic drug and anti-anxiety medication ever prescribed to me over the last two and a half decades and had thousands of hours on counselors' couches-- and nothing changes, it never changes. It can't change, even if I want it to, I always, in the end come back to where I was, so I'd might as well accept the fact that if I keep running on my little wheel eventually my heart will explode and as I've said, I don't want to die.

    I simply need to accept what happened to me, and in my heart I've forgiven the person responsible, but the scar is so deep that I hold the animosity still and will carry it with me to my grave whether I want to or not. Everybody hurts. They say as bad as things are that they could be worse? No, I don't believe that. I think everything's the way it is, and nothing's going to change. I'm a hard-determinist and I'd might as well follow the current rather than swim upstream towards some lofty goal that isn't even there.
     
  5. Chip

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    This has nothing to do with drugs, EKGs, or CAT scans. By your own description, it has a psychological origin, and actually, I can understand exactly what you are saying better than you might imagine.

    Your problem is most certainly solvable, but it requires both a real desire to do the work and to stop denying who you are and what you are feeling. It also requires, given the depth of your resistance, skepticism, and self-hatred, a skilled, capable psychotherapist (not a psychiatrist or medical doctor who wants to prescribe drugs or do tests) to help you through it.

    I can't tell you how many times I've heard the "you don't understand... You aren't capable of understanding... Nobody understands" thing stated. That is known among therapists as an empathy barrier. It is a protection that people put up to avoid actually working on the issue, and it can be extremely effective at preventing any progress from happening if the therapist isn't skilled in understanding and overcoming it. And sadly, most therapists aren't very good at empathy with really challenging clients. It requires exceptional skill, and, quite frankly, many if not most therapists suck, so I totally understand why you've had no success thus far. But the past doesn't predict the future.

    So really, the ball is in your court. You can stay miserable for the rest of your life and try, unsuccessfully, to continue to shove down your feelings and pretend you don't have them... Or you can venture out again and find someone that will be able to help you get past this and move into a place where you can feel happier and healthier.

    It's really up to you. No one else can take the first step.
     
  6. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    I have no desire to emulate the person I have wasted too much time hating and have every reason to hate but have forgiven.

    That is an excuse created by cold Freudianists. Personally, all I've ever seen in psychotherapists is sitting there, talking to them, they nod their head and say "And how does that make you feel?" There are no hard results from psychotherapy, it's simply a tool used by health insurance companies to collect money off of people who feel the need to vent their problems to a total stranger.

    Show me someone, someone according to a "study," (if there is such a thing) a renowned therapist who magically and proverbially turned iron into gold and after so much work made someone overcome something by sitting in a dim, uncomfortable room, nodding his head and asking a Millennial victim of psychiatry "and how does that make you feel?" over and over and over.

    I would rather stuff down bad feelings that stir up even worse ones than engage in something that would make me loathe the skin I'm in even more for the rest of my life. When you say you understand what I'm going through, it's like someone who was never raped telling a rape victim "I really know understand," -- you can't, what happened to me was so deeply personal it was a rape the mind and the spirit. It was an all-fronts assault on the very core being of who I was and now that part of me has been lost, thrown into a cold oblivion and left with a hollow shell trying to live a lie he doesn't want to lie about.

    What happened to me was unforgivable, but I found it in my heart to forgive the person, to forget them to act like they never existed and every time I load that gay chat app on my tablet I know I'm betraying that forgiveness and that's just not who I am.
     
  7. AKTodd

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    I'm sorry, but this does not logically follow. Presumably, the person who hurt you so much was also a human being and therefore you have no choice but to be like them in various ways. You both breath the same air, you both need water to live, you both eat food, and there is a high probability that you both like at least some of the same foods, or music, or basic colors, or the like. Yet somehow the only thing you are apparently bothered by is the bit about having the same sexual orientation. Which, on the face of it, is like hating yourself for being right handed or having a certain eye color because this person was (for sake of argument) also right handed, or happened to have the same eye color, or happened to speak the same language you do. Why is the issue of orientation somehow more important than all of these other things?

    You say you don't want to 'emulate' this person. Based on what you've said this person did awful emotionally and psychologically abusive things to you. I completely agree with you that you should not do engage in psychological and emotional abuse of others. Quite the opposite in fact. But since engaging in homosexual acts or relationships is not inherently abusive, then you are no more 'emulating' this person by engaging in such acts than you are 'emulating' them by breathing or drinking a glass of water.

    You say that you've forgiven and forgotten this person. Except that you keep bringing them up over and over and over as the source of and justification for your negative feelings about having same-sex attraction.

    While I certainly don't know the specifics of what happened to you, I do know something about emotional and psychological abuse. My dad was a passive aggressive who sexually molested two of my sisters and emotional abused my mom and myself for the better part of 10 yrs. This while I was growing up in a conservative small town where you were basically the outsider if you didn't like what everyone else liked (which I didn't and refused to give in on for 10 yrs - I had adult teachers giving me crap about that), dealing with my parents involvement in a group that was one step from a cult, and my mother having a nervous breakdown and being institutionalized - and all that was between ages 8 and 18 and is only the Cliff's Notes version.

    While I don't know that I ever forgave, I certainly never forgot any of that. But what I did eventually do was realize that it gained me nothing to have all the anger I used to have just roiling around in me. It only hurt me and certainly never bothered my dad or anyone in my hometown in the slightest. So I just let it go - and felt much better and happier as a result.

    Whether what I did counts as forgiveness or not, I neither know nor care. But I can tell you that you really don't sound like someone who has either forgiven or forgotten anything. Tried to tamp it down and suppress it maybe (but without much success).

    As far as betraying your forgiveness every time you act on your attractions - As pointed out above - engaging in same sex attraction or sex has about as much relation to what this person did to you as the fact that you both breath and drink water multiple times a day or happen to occupy the same planet.

    If you truly want to repudiate all that this person did and was, then why not be the total opposite of them in the sense of being anything but emotionally and psychologically abusive to others and trying to work against that kind of thing and its results in your life and in the lives of those around you? And why not accept your same-sex attraction and act on it as a natural and normal part of yourself that you happen to have in common with this person in much the same way that you both happen to (presumably) be bipeds?

    It seems to me that all you're really doing with your current line of behavior is making yourself miserable by continuing to react to this person even though they are no longer in your life. You're making yourself unhappy reacting to someone who I very much doubt cares about what you're doing in the slightest,

    Certainly, it seems unlikely that you're causing them any harm or discomfort with your behavior. So why not stop expending all that time and energy fighting ghosts, accept yourself as you are without worrying about whether or not it has even the slightest similarity to this person, and go on with trying to live a happy gay life?

    Todd
     
  8. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    This isn't a matter of logic or so much the party involved who ruined me. It's the fact that they used their sexuality to manipulate me like a marionette and that made me resent myself. I hate that I am what I am, not what I am, but the fact that I am what I am.
     
  9. Filip

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    I'm not quite sure if the following is advice, loose thoughts, or total nonsense, but if you'll indulge me: an observation:

    In your posts both in this thread and previous threads, you do seem to cast your experiences so far in the most horrible light possible.

    And, don't get me wrong. I've been bullied myself. I've been snubbed IRL by gay people, I'm no stranger to anxiety attacks. That sort of stuff IS horrible. Often it feels like it's too much to bear.
    But on the other hand... I think that calling your life "ruined", or seeing the past as "wasted" is something that can only hold you back.

    If you look at it objectively, all of our lives are ruined and wasted. All of us probably have a certain conception of "what my life would have been like if X or Y didn't happen". In my ideal life, I wouldn't have been bullied in middle school, I'd have been out of the closet in highschool instead of waiting until I was 25, my dad would still be alive, and I would have taken a shot at moving in with my boyfriend already.
    All of the above is counterfactual. And compared to that counterfactual life, what I currently have can seem like a waste, a failure, a pale shadow of what could have been.

    On the other hand, though, it isn't a waste or a failure. It's not a fairy tale, but I learned much by living through all of it. All those years in the closet taught me quite a bit of self-knowledge. Being bullied taught me to know my boundaries better. Even my dad's passing taught me that I can handle the worst and come out the other side.
    Every time, it's a question of playing the cards you have and not focusing on how those cards got in your hands in the first place

    So whatever you do: don't put too much stock in an idea of what you're "supposed" to be. You're not "supposed" to be anyone except yourself.
    If the local gay people aren't good to hang out with, don't do so because you feel hat you have to do so.
    If you feel like forgiving that bully, then don't do so because you feel you're supposed to. If forgiveness works, then it's good, but it isn't the same as smothering your feelings inside.

    And above all, try to not let the past define you. In the end, you never wasted or ruined anything. Just see it as a hand of cards you've been dealt and will make the best of!

    Phew, and with that, I'll end my ramble. Don't know if it helps, but putting it out there in case it might.
     
  10. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    While I agree that life isn't a fairy tale, I don't think that looking at my own life objectively is a good idea. The idea of objectivity simply doesn't exist-- everyone's biased in one way or another. One cannot simply strip away their feelings from something they've experienced themselves and approach it so coldly and scientifically-- it just doesn't work.

    As for the "what ifs" in my life, there's so many of them, like I'm sure there are in everyone else's lives. Looking back though, I can't remember more than one thing I've ever done right out of chance. Almost every situation I've ever been in has ended with me immediately thinking "Boy, I wish I'd done that differently."

    Now, as for a lifetime of regret? Well, there's not enough exabytes on the internet for me to fill. And as the days go by, I'll remember random, more inconsequential stuff that I'll kick myself for. But that's just the way it is. That's the way it's going to be. As I've said I'm a determinist-- I see the pattern, now and it's hardwired.

    This is the pattern...

    Normality, sexlessness and a mostly unobstructed flow of thought.
    An idea is implanted, it could be anything-- anything can be a trigger for my homosexual behavior.
    That idea incubates for at least one hour, at most six or seven months and I'll get on the gay app on my phone.
    I'll stay on the gay app, chatting for up to one week without remorse. (One week=new record)
    I'll have some sort of low point usually immediately after orgasm and shut down everything.
    I go into a period of hiding, change my appearance, act with a different demeanor and return to the sexless, normal and unobstructed flow of thought until I experience another trigger.

    ...the only 'logical' thing to do is to break this cycle, to ignore the triggers, to fight it and the insanity that comes with it.
     
    #10 Benway, Oct 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2014
  11. Filip

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion here. Yes, it's a pattern. Yes, it's probably indicative of what will happen in the future. Yes, it has become hardwired over the years. And yes, breaking it is what will set you free.

    But a pattern has many steps. You want to break it after step 1. But you've done that before. In fact, wanting to break it after step one is a pattern itself now. In a sense, "trying to break the pattern after step one" IS step one for you.

    So... maybe it's not the best link to be breaking.

    Maybe what you want to work on is the second link instead. At some point, something will happen to make you remember you're gay. Might be a cute guy in the street, might be a stray thought, might be something completely out of left field.

    And yeah, in the past you fought it. Kept it in for weeks, then went on a gay app, there tried to keep it in for a few weeks more, then inevitably you end up going all the way (well, as far as things can go texting to strangers, at least) and consummating the feeling. After all of that fighting, it's bound to feel like you failed at something. Cue the self-hate, and the effort to "not give in next time!"

    So, now I'm wondering if there aren't other ways to bleed off the tension before it builds to such unmanageable levels.
    Say you're walking down the street and you notice a cute guy. Gay thoughts pop into your head. Don't immediately try to push them down. Continue with your day until you get home. Then, in the privacy of your own room, get it out of your system. Fantasise in your head, write a story about it, indulge in the fantasy for a bit. If one fantasy leads to another, it can lead to getting naked and having an orgasm down the way.
    But there, too, there's nothing shameful about it. You had a fantasy, indulged in it at the end of the day, and then you're good to go! No guilt about what you told other people over a gay app or of how the gay community will see you or for failing to fight it for longer. There's no defeat if there wasn't a fight in the first place!

    Okay, reading over that, I realise it sounds weird. The tldr; is basically "dude, jack off a bit more". But on the whole, I do think it might be worth a try. It'd be breaking the pattern in a different way than you tried until now, at least!
     
  12. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    I understand perfectly where you're coming from and frankly that's the method I'd been using the entirety of the last week I was on the app. But like my triggers, it's not just an orgasm that can set me flying away from the app. It's little things, all it takes is one tiny stray thought to flutter into my brain and plant the seed of doubt in the soil of uncertainty.

    I've waged a war with my sexuality for too long and I realize that I'm not going to win or lose, so it's time for a ceasefire. I openly acknowledge that there is a part of me that's overwhelmingly homosexual but I'm not going to cross the demilitarized zone from one end or the other to try and make some lofty peace treaty because it will rekindle the war.

    I'm tired, I'm damned tired and I can't emotionally afford to do this, anymore. My hairline has receded almost an inch in the last six months, never having shown any sign of doing so before. There are bags under my eyes and I look like someone going through heroin withdrawal even though I've never done heroin and am not in withdrawal of any narcotic.

    What I need to do is rest. Sexuality is a monster under my bed, or, in my closet, if you prefer the connotation as it seems more appropriate in my case and I just need to keep a light on it, know that it's there, I know it's a part of me, but it's not something I want to embrace or sign a contract with lest I lose what little is left of my already shattered identity.
     
  13. nerdbrain

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    Benway, you are one strange, strange dude. Yet somehow I'm fascinated by your weirdness.

    As wacky as it sounds, I think your new plan might actually work. If you put the "gay thing" on the shelf for awhile, it might give you time to let the rest of your world settle down into some kind of normalcy. Then maybe you'll be able to revisit the issue later with a better frame of mind. I don't know if "time heals all wounds," but it often does bring a different perspective to your understanding of the past.

    Good luck...
     
  14. biAnnika

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    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    I like the idea and language of a ceasefire with your sexuality, as opposed to a lofty peace agreement.

    Beautiful. I wish you luck with it. But don't lose sight: it's not an enemy; it's your sexuality. Not just *a* sexuality. Yours. So it won't play by rules, and you shouldn't get upset and start firing again when it breaks them. That thing you're firing at? That's you. That sexuality you hate? That's you too.

    So by all means, cease fire. But use the downtime to try to come to terms with you. Not in a lofty holistic "I love me"-fest. But to whatever extent you can. Because at the end of the day, regardless of how you feel about it, you are you, and you can't be otherwise or you'd be someone else. Better to be on decent terms with yourself than at war. Maybe sit down and have a conversation with yourself, get to know one another a bit, understand *your* side of the story, even if you can't *accept* it. Sometimes relations improve just from listening to each other. Do something neutral but fun with yourself. Take yourself out to dinner or something, spend some quality time together. Make some associations with yourself that *don't* revolve around sexuality. Just some ideas.
     
  15. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    Have you ever seen the movie The Two Jakes? It's the sequel to Chinatown, both star Jack Nicholson. At the end of The Two Jakes Katherine (Meg Tilly) asks Jake (Jack Nicholson) if "it ever goes away." He asks "does what ever go away?" She says "the past." He thinks about this for a moment and says "I think you're going to have to work real hard on that one." She tells him to think of her from time to time and leaves his office. He sits down, but then he runs out the door and yells "Katherine!" She's already down the stairs and she looks up at him and he shakes his head sadly and even more sadly says:

    "It never goes away." And that's how the movie ends.

    It will be like sitting on a fallen arrow, which is military slang for an accidentally deployed, unexploded but active atom bomb which could go off at any time, but I'll manage, because it's exploded in my face before and I've no doubt that it will explode again, sooner or later.

    Last night I had a strange dream that made me wake up sobbing. I was sitting in some room and someone was chastising me for no apparent reason, saying I was a "faggot who's never known physical pleasure," and that I was "so stupid that" I "probably can't even masturbate correctly." I like to sleep, sometimes I have good dreams, but much of it is just chasing shadows, chasing things the things I desire, but every now and then it's like being inside a world of utter joy. Isn't it strange? In this cold new age where dreams mean nothing to the psychologist that they could mean so much to me, the one who pays the shrink his pennies?

    That dream has been bothering me all day, it's cast a shadow over my waking hours and left my head in an uncomfortable fog that hasn't left. I've been in such a funk since Friday that I haven't shaved or showered, I've barely eaten. A friend of mine had me over at his home the other day and remarked how terrible I looked, he asked if anything was wrong, I simply said "I've got a devil on my back."
     
  16. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Re: Years wasted. So much rage, so much betrayal. No more. No more rage, no more ange

    Sorry for the necroposting, but I'd really like to get some more input.

    I'll be calling a few different therapists on Monday when the offices are open, to find a good therapist who takes my insurance-- so let's just get that out of the way, first.

    But any more input would be appreciated, as always.