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A couple questions about sexual fantasies...

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by sam the man, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. sam the man

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    As the title says, I've just got a couple things I want to ask about sexual fantasies as an indicator. The basic question is - how reliable are they?

    I'll elaborate on why I ask. So I basically masturbate every day, and have done for the past few years. I'm aware this is normal for a young guy my age (18). Sometimes I use porn, sometimes I don't, I like to think I can take it or leave it (and oftentimes when I take it I try and use pictures instead of videos). However, over time - last couple of years, that is - same-sex porn followed by SS fantasies have nudged their way in and gradually become progressively more predominant. Currently there's a guy I know who I have some fantasies about. But the thing is, in person, yeah I definitely think he's cute and all, but there's no burning attraction, not of the kind most people seem to report at least. Also when I get into it, so to speak, I feel like pretty much any scenario that's suitably erotic can make the engine run. So these aspects have made me question:
    1. Can frequent masturbation essentially "habituate" fantasies or attractions, in a similar way to porn as is often discussed here?
    2. How well can fantasy really be said to correlate with attraction?
    3. Given that when masturbating you're horny, so a wider variety of things would stimulate you/take your interest- basically that you become less fussy- does it point to anything substantial?
    I'm inclined to think that sexual fantasies obviously shouldn't be ignored but might not tell anything conclusive to some people, and shouldn't be taken on their own/at face value. But I'd like to hear some other perspectives on this too.
     
  2. LooseMoose

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    This is a tricky question in my opinion & different people will have different answers.

    Some people fantasise about stuff that they want to happen in their real life, and some fantasise about things which would make them really uncomfortable if acted out.


    Regarding your questions
    1) yes and no. I'd say it can habituate your fantasies in a similar way to the way porn does, but it cannot really change/create new attractions to actual people in real life. But it can *mask* levels of genuine attraction and over-sexualise everything and everybody around you. If you keep watching videos or fantasising about people rubbing themselves against chairs, you will eventually become aroused by association when you see chairs in real life, but it will not make you attracted to chairs in real life.

    2) not so well, I'd say. In some cases it does, on some cases it does not at all.

    3) I think it points to nothing substantial, apart from the fact that you are horny/openminded and adventurous.



    I'd say the only thing that matters is your attraction in real life and how you feel about pursuing it. Deep inside, if you abandon societal pressures, do you feel comfortable with acting on it?


    Personally I am very weary of 'open-mindedness', and in my case, paradoxically it was a sign of suppressing my same sex attraction.

    I was openminded, and adventurous, but it was a consequence of not letting myself actually feel same sex attractions properly: I suppressed them and hence everything became the same and I was indifferent to the levels of physical attraction in people- so had a low threshold of what I considered acceptable.

    If you are not allowing yourself to feel, nothing can hurt you, but also nothing can stimulate you, so you keep seeking out ways of connecting to people.

    On the other hand seeing myself as 'openminded' also allowed me to admit my same sex attractions, without actually properly acknowledging them, because if everything goes, it is not such a big deal, right? In that way I have avoided for years dealing with the fact that there is a significant difference between the way same and opposite sex attraction works for me, and acknowledging where my preference lies.

    ---

    If a fantasy develops spontaneous though, not in relation to your previous experiences, or pressures to be a certain way, and if you find the person actually attractive, I'd say it is genuine. You said you find him cute, this sounds pretty much like attraction to me.
     
  3. AnomJB

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    LooseMoose a few things you wrote stuck out to me.
    " I was openminded, and adventurous, but it was a consequence of not letting myself actually feel same sex attractions properly: I suppressed them and hence everything became the same and I was indifferent to the levels of physical attraction in people- so had a low threshold of what I considered acceptable.

    If you are not allowing yourself to feel, nothing can hurt you, but also nothing can stimulate you, so you keep seeking out ways of connecting to people. "

    do you mind specifying what you mean? I have be questioning myself for 2 years now and although my standards were never too high when it came to casual sex i have found that it only became worse after the confusion and depression. I feel like i have been with tons of women and it's its all the same to me at this point. In the moment i love every minute of the sex but i find it really hard to connect on any other level which leaves me wanting more from others. Paying for sex was also something i would NEVER consider before all of this and embarrassingly Asian Massage Parlors has become a new thing for me.

    ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2015 at 08:09 AM ----------

    i want to add that even when i do find a girl that i am romantically interested in, i'l be all for it and then either go into panic mode about my sexuality and end it or after a month or two just get bored of it. I always thought of it as an addictive behavior like nothing is ever enough but your statement made me look at it from a different angle.
     
    #3 AnomJB, Mar 17, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  4. marieblue

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    I wish they were but I don't think they're super reliable mate.
     
  5. LooseMoose

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    I'll try answering your question.

    I think on one of the other threads Chip gave an answer to another user by mentioning confusion between behaviour and attraction/orientation. This sums it up in simple terms for me: I was capable of straight behaviour, but sexual attraction did not really enter the equation for me, my responses were based on either 1) emotional attraction, of which I am capable of towards the opposite sex, or 2) their sexual attraction to me, rather than *my* sexual attraction to them. By being "open" I simply meant that I could engage in sexual behaviour without sexual attraction. It took me a long time to actually recognise what sexual attraction feels liek and allow myself to feel it. After that I've completely lost interest in ever engaging in sex based on non-sexual attraction.



    Sexuality is a spectrum and I am certainly on the *cusp* of being bisexual- I forever wonder if I am or not sexually attracted to the opposite sex, etc, so don't take my word as gospel, but instead take it as coming from a person who never stopped their questioning phase, because a lot of my experience seems to not follow the usual gay experience.

    Personally I get on well with the opposite sex and in many ways prefer their company & could have sex with them *in the past* , as well as develop feelings for them, but *something always felt missing*- I've felt detached
    & even if I did not feel detached, it was often based on me *consciously* blocking out the fact that I was physically not attracted to the person: mentally, emotionally: yes, sensually: maybe, but physically- sexually usually not.

    Whilst when I was in a relationship with the same sex *things felt right* and comfortable for me. Sex was super hot and connected, even when we did not share that many things in common in other ways.

    I could be perfectly happy with a woman who probably did not share many of my interests: I can share them with friends, but the emotional and sexual satisfaction would be there, coming from my partner whilst with a man I feel often somehow unhappy/detached, despite having a lot of things in common.

    I am celibate since a few years due to other circumstances, but generally casual sex is *supposed* to feel kind of empty/detached, so the fact that it does is not necessarily a sign of anything 'problematic'.

    My own issue was that sex within a loving and committed relationship *still felt almost the same like the casual sex, still disconnected*. Notably I only had 1 long-term sexual relationship with the opposite sex, so my experience could be biased: others were either casual sex, or online/long distance emotional relationships with very rare/sporadic sexual encounters.
    Now it is possible that other people would draw out of this a conclusion that it was simply the fault of my one long term partner, or lack of chemistry between the two of us. It is possible, but given the fact that even causal sex with a woman felt *just right* for me, I drew out of this a conclusion that I am gay.
    Others might draw different conclusions out of similar circumstances: bisexual of with gay preference, or demisexual, or aromantic, it all depends on a particular circumstance.

    Are you ever attracted to the same sex? Could you ever imagine doing anything with them?
     
  6. AnomJB

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    The confusion and questioning started sporadically for me after seeing gay porn one morning. It was on my computer from the night before and kind of just caught me off guard(even though it wasn't the first time id done it) and sent me into instant panic and I've been anxious/questioning since.
    Despite my porn choices,I cant say that i ever looked at a male and had an urge to do anything sexual with them, sure i could say "hes a good looking dude" but it wasn't like how i'd view females. The problem is ever since the confusion started my mind is clouded with constant anxiety and i feel like i can't tell whats reality at this point. For example and i feel like a sicko even writing this i tried comparing my thoughts of how i usually imagine kissing another man, with my mother. It was strange but i couldn't really process if i would have liked it or not...
    I'l be honest i feel almost disconnected with myself since this happened. I fell into extremely deep depression and haven't been the same since.

    ---------- Post added 17th Mar 2015 at 01:53 PM ----------

    I don't mean to be too graphic also but the majority of my same-sex porn use was shemale or self masturbation/anal stimulation. Man on man gay porn wasn't really my thing from what i remember. When i write this stuff it makes me wonder " what "straight" guy would have these problems?" but me being gay just doesn't add up in my head. I am sure i am rambling as always at this point but that's basically my thought process every minute of every day.
     
  7. LooseMoose

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    Depression does this to people.
    You are not yourself when you are depressed: you are detached and everything is possible.
    I would be very, very cautious of using your experiences during depression as an indicator that something 'is wrong' with you, if before depression things felt ok.

    Get well before worrying about sexuality. Once you are better, things will start falling into place, if it turns out you are not straight, you will be in a better position to know it.

    Sexuality is about feelings: how can you know any of it if your feelings are numbed and you are detached from them due to depression?


    If you are straight: one instance of sexual response to a male or male porn does not make you gay. We are sexual beings and porn is designed to arouse. I've been aroused to porn and people I had no sexual attraction to, most people have, it is how the porn industry makes their money.
     
  8. cloudberry

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    LooseMoose, thank you for your post. My feelings are very similar to yours in many ways so it really felt kind of confirming to read about your experiences. My one and only relationship so far has been with a guy, and although sometimes I wonder if it could just be a lack of chemistry between us, I feel exactly the way you describe with him. Sometimes I have really enjoyed sex, but I've never felt that 'connection' and it's never felt like 'making love', though I guess I just thought that it's how things are supposed to be because I don't have any other experience. As much as I hate to say it a lot of the time I've agreed to sex more out of some kind of sense of obligation or just to make him happy, which I think has been kind of damaging because now I'm basically unable to have sex with him because something kind of snaps in my head and i start to feel angry even when he's being really sweet, like I want to hit him or something... which then just leaves me feeling sad and guilty. I know this is probably pretty messed up.

    I also have trouble with recognizing sexual attraction and don't feel much anything most of the time. Although I think I'm kind of attracted to guys as well, the few times when I think I may have been genuinely attracted to someone it's been towards other girls. I'd actually kind of forgotten how it can feel until I met this one girl at uni this year. Today I was able to talk to her quite a lot because we were doing this presentation together and I really felt some kind of electricity when I was close to her and just couldn't take my eyes off her.

    It's weird because I do sometimes have sexual fantasies about guys (although not so much lately), but never in a romantic way really. I never want to kiss guys for example. Meanwhile my fantasies about girls are more... sensual I guess, and i often think about being in a relationship with a girl. I think it would feel right to be with a girl, but I feel like I can't be completely certain because I don't really have any experience and I tend to overthink things and get really confused.
     
  9. AnomJB

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    The panic attack about my sexuality which lead to my confusion is what brought on the depression. Before this i felt like i was at a point in my life where everything was finally coming together. I've always suffered from anxiety and depression but this took it to new levels. I guess i should see a professional at this point. Thanks for the advice =)
     
  10. sam the man

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    Thanks for the responses all! Yeah...this whole thing is so annoying, the more you think about it the further you get from an answer. But thinking's really most of what I've got, and in any case it's very much my personality to overthink stuff- so yeah, it's hard to fight the urge to do exactly that. I think you guys are right- sexual fantasy isn't wholly reliable for a few reasons. It's also hard to differentiate between real attraction and things that are all in my head.

    What seems to make this more complicated is the fact that, in my case, I'm starting to feel as though my relationship with this guy I know (from my perspective) has mostly friendship properties but is also starting to take on some extra-friendship properties (like a feeling of appreciating him as a person and wanting to be close, and obviously the fact I've fantasised about him). But not quite enough to move it out of the bounds of friendship, if that makes sense? Idk... maybe I really am that inexperienced with what a very close friendship feels like.

    It looks as I've evolved this thread into a discussion involving emotional and romantic attachment as much as sexual, but I guess that reflects the fact that sexual attraction/fantasies are only really meaningful if you want to/like having them, which usually comes along with those other types of attraction. It's all in a massive web that's very good at entangling your thought processes.

    @AnomJB - I agree with LooseMoose, depression can really change your perception of anything, really, so it and this kind of questioning don't mix. Also, ask yourself- if it was a genuine attraction, don't you think at least part of you would enjoy it, and derive happiness from it? Just throwing that out there for you to think about, since obviously hardly anyone *wants* to have same-sex attraction, but for people who do there's usually some aspect of happiness involved in that attraction. If even the contemplation of same-sex attraction brings you nothing but misery, don't you think that tells you something in itself? Just my angle. Definitely, seeing a professional could be a good step though if you think it could help :slight_smile: