I came across an interesting illustration of gender identity, expression, sexual attraction etc. recently, in which the biological sex is set aside from the gender identity. (You can find the illustration here) It set me wondering whether if someone was lesbian, would it matter if the person was biologically female and didn't have plans on changing the sex, but identified and expressed as a man? And of course, the other way around, a man who identified as a woman. And if not, would it be OK if the person identified as the other sex at least expressed him/herself as the biological one. Or is that absolutely not possible for someone strictly gay because of the romantic attraction? I'm looking forward to any replies and comments on this topic to make things a bit clearer for me Thanks in advance.
I'm going to start off by asking you to avoid using the phrase "biological sex" for two reasons (I don't mean to be rude, I promise) One, it could be offensive to trans people. If you say "biologically male", you are enforcing the idea that gender is determined by your body. Instead, you can say assigned (fe)male at birth or amab/afab. Two, the idea of sex is pretty outdated and there isn't an actual need for it. For more information on this, you could look online or ask someone who is educated on the topic. Also, try not to say "a man who identified as a woman". If you ID as a woman, then you are a woman, regardless of your body. Thanks! Anyway, I will put sexual orientation as simply as I can. You are lesbian if you are female and are attracted to females. It doesn't matter what body parts you have or how you express yourself; it only depends on your gender. Women with penises are lesbian if they are attracted to other women. You are gay if you are a male who is attracted to males. If you are a man with a vagina who is attracted to men, you are still gay. I hope I helped! Feel free to message me with any other questions. Thanks!
Thankyou for the explanation, I'll try to keep the right terms in mind. I don't fully understand why it is offensive, I ID as male, but still my female body is part of me and marks who I am. But that's just an opinion, as I said, I'll avoid terms like biological sex. What I actually wanted to ask is whether a lesbian could ever feel attracted/ even date a transman if he still had a female body and wasn't planning on changing? And the other way around, a gay man date a transwoman if she still had a completely male body? Or does that not work because of no romantic attraction?
In that case, it is possible for some, not everyone to have sexual and/or romantic attraction, while for others it's a huge turn-off or impossible. It depends on the person. Furthermore, I, for example, could never, ever date a gay man, even if he was the most charming and handsome guy in the world and even though I'm amab and attracted to guys. It just doesn't click, it just doesn't work. And I think that goes for most trans people.
I think the answer to the second comes from a level of respect for another person's gender. As an example, I used to work with a transman who I found incredibly attractive, but I was attracted to him as a woman. I decided it would be unfair to date him, since I wouldnt be respecting his gender in doing so. If he was homosexual ( I don't know) he might have found me attractive as a man, and it would have been the same issue reversed. A homosexual cisperson (let's say male attracted to men) and a heterosexual transperson (MtF attracted to men) who hasn't transitioned might be able to enjoy the sex, but since the fundamental part of the relationship contradicts the transperson's identity the relationship is probably doomed to fail despite the fact they are attracted to each other sexually.
Thanks, I found this very helpful, even if sad. It sounds like trans people have a very small dating pool, because it necessarily has to be someone pansexual.
This is not at all true. By trans people you mean MtF's and FtM's, I'm assuming. Our dating pool is not limited to pansexuals. Our dating pool can include people of any sexual orientation. Sometimes, not always, straight people won't date another straight T person, gay people won't date another gay T person, etc., and when looking to date, T people sometimes look to bisexuals or pansexuals as a more sure bet that they won't be rejected because of their gender identity. What Kaya Sente meant above, is that for example I, as an MtF person, could not date a gay man. That's one combination of gender identity and sexual orientation (male homosexual) that I cannot date. It is not everyone but pansexuals. No hard feelings, I just wanted to point that out.
By MtF and FtM, do you also mean trans men or women who haven't and won't actually change their sex externally? Because I think that's what makes it difficult, because then you need to find someone romantically attracted to one sex, but sexually to the other (Or both, of course). These are the trans people I meant when I said the dating pool was small.
You are making lots of assumptions that are not true, as in they are not a rule, though they might happen. Trans men and women who have not started transitioning do not need to look for partners with seperate romantic and sexual attractions. That is as untrue as that they have to look for pan partners. It is not true. I will ask you not to make statements without a factual background. That is assuming; guesswork. And reality is different.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean for it to seem like a statement or fact. It is simply what I have understood until now. I have a lot to learn, I know, and I should be more careful when expressing things. I'm not natively English, so I find it sometimes difficult to find the politest way to express things. But please, correct me when I say wrong things. You simply stated what I said was not true. But what is true then? I'd really appreciate if you/ or anyone could explain things to me? No harm meant, really, this is an honest question.
Well, the hard thing is, it's like saying all flowers are red. Then you have to explain everything else in detail. But okay. I can take myself as example again. Let's say I'm panromantic for the sake of it. What is my dating pool? Well, the thing is, it really depends on the person. I'm guessing, at my current passing level, few straight cis guys would date me. With trans guys I might have more luck. Some straight cis girls might date me if I present more male, but that would invalidate my identity and I would never do that. Some cis lesbian girls could be in my pool. And GQ, fluid, enby people etc. etc. See the pattern? Some combinations of gender identity and orientation are more likely to be open and in my dating pool, while some are closed, and some are less likely. It depends on the person. Princess Joules on Youtube had a bf before she started physicalky transitioning or had done much voice training. He was cis, and straight, I think. It depends on the situation.
I think an important thing to realize is that sexuality isn't made of absolutes. A straight person may still be okay with a person who identifies as the opposite sex even if the body doesn't necessarily match up. I know that such relationships exist, same for homosexual couples. That said it certainly would be easier to find an accepting partner if they are pansexual. ---- That is of course leaving out the fact that pansexual is an imperfect word for many, for instance I am mostly interested in those who have feminine features, but would have no problem dating a man, woman or non binary person. In contrast, a person doesn't have to be pansexual to be interested in non binary people. I think what I'm trying to say is, It would probably be best to not worry about labels in this sense. From what I've seen, when you try to define sexuality relative to transgender people it just causes confusion. The important part is that you and your partner are able to accept each others identities, and love each other for it. Disclaimer: I have never been in a relationship as my proper gender, so this is not from personal experience simply observations from other people's stories as well as a healthy dost of optimism.
Thanks. I've come to realize it's a difficult topic, and this is reassuring. I have the feeling we get too lost in labels and expressions, which even causes ourselves being put under pressure by them - using the right terms, dating the right people - it's difficult to accept but maybe it's one of those things where it's best to just stop thinking about it too much.
