1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How exactly would you define a person's sexual orientation?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Cubster1980, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I am a 35 year old male who is questioning my sexuality. Can sexuality be variable? Are you born with it, can it be learned, or could it be environmental? I have used the term gay or bisexual when defining my sexual orientation. I used the term gay for years but have had doubts about it especially over the past several months. When I was 17 I originally came out as bi but had many uncertainties back then about it. At age 18 or 19 when I entered the gay community and I was told by other gay men I was probably gay and not bisexual. When I was a kid around 7-15 i hung out with other boys my age and they would talk about other girls and I could see what they were talking about but there were some of them I had crushes on. I had crushes on two teachers at age 7 who were both gorgeous and I wish I could have been in both their classes at the same time. I also had a crush on a number of boys between age 7-15. They would make me feel gooey inside or turned on. Seeing them shirtless would make me feel like I was going to get off without even touching myself and even to this day they do.
    I remember being also a teenager and I remember seeing two women kiss and that turned me on. Parts of me wondered what would that be like to have been a woman and be with a woman. In addition, I would also have erotic pictures of naked men and women go through my head as a teenager. I have had a few nocturnal emissions from dreaming of women and quite a few over the years from dreaming of men. They were all of a sexual nature.
    I have identified as gay for quite some years and have had sex with quite bit of men and women. It seemed like wasn't so crazy about having sex with women till more recently which has been over the past couple months. I even would even have trouble getting off with men and would not climax. Like I said recently I have been looking at women and have been getting off at watching them especially two women. At one point I was wondering if I was starting to become straight. No, because I still am just as attracted to males as I am females. I am sexually attracted to male bodies, faces, nice butts, but I am not all that crazy about penis. A penis does not really turn me on that much. Women I tend to like big boobs, vaginas, and I also like their seductive looks. However in public I tend to get turned on immensely by males who are shirtless or their butt. It is almost to the point where I feel like I could get off without touching myself. However when I masturbate my orgasms tend to be just as big when looking at two females vs. two males. Sometimes not only do I get off about having sexual intercourse with a woman but also thinking I am a woman having sex with another woman. I tend to wonder if this part of me that likes women has developed over time, if it's environmental, if it is learned behavior from society, or I was born with it. Usually out in public or in the presence of women I can get turned on but not to the point of where I am going to get off without touching myself like I do men. When I watch lesbian pornography however I can get turned on pre ejaculation and get off. I even get heterosexual urges at night. I wonder in a way what my sexuality encompasses.
     
  2. andimon

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Eastern Europe
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    You seem more attracted to women than men. Sexuality can be fluid and take different forms, but doesn't change radically. Given that you experienced with both men and women and still are attracted to either sexes, I'd say you are bisexual with a lower Kinsey scale level (2 -2.5?).
     
    #2 andimon, Aug 21, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  3. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Yeah, I feel though I would be more closer to a 4. I tend to feel more sexually attracted to men than women. I guess the term homosexual or bisexual does not matter one way or the other.
     
  4. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, what you describe sounds like being bisexual, and my first thought I that you sounded like someone who might be a Kinsey scale 4, a homo-leaning bisexual.
    Which is funny, cause then that's exactly what you self identified as. Lol

    I think being bi versus gay DOES matter though. I think its important for psychological health to be fully seen by close friends and romantic partners. And you don't want to limit the choices of potential partners because your not out as bi. Who knows, maybe you'll meet another bi-guy and a woman you like and want to form a triad? Lol (sorry I'm probably projecting one of my fantasies here, lol)

    Also, as a political matter, there is much biphobia and bi-erasure in the gay community, which can be disempowering to actual bi people as they are coming out, so I think it's important to have more openly bisexual role models out there. In fact, the way you describe your own coming out kinda reaffirms that problem: The gay men you encountered told you you were probably just gay.

    Also, it's interesting that you like male bodies AND vaginas, but feel lukewarm about dick. I feel kinda similarly, so it's nice to know I'm not alone. :slight_smile:
    Have you ever tried dating trans men? Many trans guys choose to remain pre-op downstairs, so you could indulge both attractions at once. I kinda have a thing for them, so I'd recommend trying it. Just sayin'
     
  5. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I tend to like men to look like men and women to look like women. I am not into transgender or anything like that but I have a transgender brother who was my sister and I love him very much. I like women who have big boobs and I like vagina. I love men who wear jockstraps and have a nice butt. I also like lipstick lesbianism but can't classify as a lesbian because I am a man. Sometimes I wonder if I am a gay man with a lipstick lesbian trapped in my body.
     
  6. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I actually have redefined my sexuality and have told some people that I believe I am bi. Like I said I tend to get a Kinsey 3 or 4 when I take the test. Though I think I am a bit more gay leaning than straight leaning. Like 60% men and 40% women. When other gay guys told me I was probably gay and not bisexual and some of them would make fun of the term bisexual. One older gay guy laughed and said bi me something and I will get sexual. I almost felt like telling him to stop being such a queen about it. Sometimes I feel like I would rather just identify as gay instead of bi because of the social stigma placed on it. It seems as if bisexual is a curse word in both the straight and gay community especially if you identify as a bi male.
     
  7. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    By the way, I want to apologize to you, your brother, and the forum for the tone of my post last night about transmen. Rereading it, it sounds a bit flip and perhaps fetishizing. Just like everyone else, transguys are complex human beings with their own emotions and preferences and problems, not sexual objects. That said, I have met many that are very sexy.

    Anyhow, congrats on having the courage to start redefining your sexuality. I hope it feels more authentic to you. That's what it's really all about - feeling like your living authentically.

    And yes, some gay men can be very catty and mean about bi guys. Some gay men think its just a phase on the way to total gayness. And maybe on their own coming out journey, it was. But for folks like yourself, attraction to women didn't vanish. You lived as gay for 15 years, and here you are liking women. What better proof is there than that?

    You would have been totally in your right to tell off the old man who was hassling you.

    ---------- Post added 22nd Aug 2015 at 10:55 AM ----------

    Also regarding your wondering if your a gay man with a lipstick lesbian inside you:
    You've mentioned this twice now, so it seems to be a persist thought.

    It could be a sign of a trans identity, or it could just be just a feeling or fantasy or kink.

    Have you explored it much? Is it something you'd like to explore more?
    Do you ever imagine yourself living as women?
    Have you ever dressed as a woman? If so, did you like it?

    I know there have been times and places and people with whom I enjoyed having sex while feeling or acting very feminine and/or imagining myself as a woman. It led me to question my gender identity a bit, but basically, I still like being male and I still like wearing men's clothes. Certainly, there have been times where it would have been to hot to have had a vagina or boobs, but not enough to really make me want to go through the extreme hassle of transitioning. And, while I'm sometimes annoyed that it won't do what I want, I basically like my penis. So, basically for me, a fantasy.

    On the other hand, I also have a friend who was born male who felt similarly about wanting to be a woman having sex with women, but to a much deeper degree, and who transitioned. So, yes, there are trans lipstick lesbians out there (and trans lipstick bisexuals, too!). It is a thing.
     
  8. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I probably could go with a transgendered person as long as they are completely changed with all male parts and all female parts. I also took a gay test last night which featured very hot women with nice bodies and boobs. The first thing when the picture came up I would notice the cleavage and the boobs and they turned me on. I don't think a guy who is a Kinsey 6 would like the idea of having sex with her or getting aroused by her nice boobs.
     
  9. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey, if you're not turned on by trans folks who are in between, that's okay.
    We like what we like.

    And yes, I can guarantee you that a Kinsey 6 man would NOT be aroused by breasts.
    My best gay friend is a Kinsey 6, and he's turned off by big boobs. Or any boobs, really.

    I'd say Kinsey 3 or 4 is a safe bet for you. :slight_smile:
     
    #9 QBear, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  10. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Do you remember Queer As Folk episodes? I thought Michael, Justin, Lindsay, Brian, and Hunter were hot. Although I thought Melanie, Ted, and Emmett were pretty cute as well. It seems like bisexuality was not really mentioned in the episodes. It seemed like Lindsay and Hunter were likely bisexual the way they were potrayed. Hunter was out hustling and he also got a big crush on Brian. However, he meets a girl named Callie and after that it was assumed he was straight. I think he may have been one of the bisexual characters as well as Lindsay because she had an affair with another man. In that show it seemed like everyone was potrayed as gay or straight and that nothing in between existed. It seemed like most of the characters potrayed would have been a Kinsey 5 or 6 but Hunter seemed like he may have been around a Kinsey 3 and Lindsay around a 4.
     
  11. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    Absolutely!! I totally love queer as folk!!

    I'm not sure what was going on with Hunter. Often times, street hustlers are actually straight, and just doing it for the money. And given Hunter's childhood abuse, it's even more complicated. I got the impression by the end of the show that he was mostly straight.

    Lindsey was one of my favorite characters...
    A) she was hot! And B) she was clearly bisexual. Like you say, I'd think around a Kinsey 4.

    I think she was meant to be the token bisexual. But now that you mention it, it does piss me off that none of the male characters were bisexual. I would have loved that show even more if there had been one.

    Glad you brought it up. :slight_smile:

    ---------- Post added 22nd Aug 2015 at 01:09 PM ----------

    Also, I was most attracted to Justin, Emmett, and Michael's professor boyfriend (what was his name?)
    Also, very attracted to Melanie, even though I know she'd want nothing to do with me. Lol
    (I have a thing for dykes. Frustrating but true. Lol)

    ---------- Post added 22nd Aug 2015 at 01:11 PM ----------

    Guess that just illustrates my predilections, doesn't it?
    I mostly like the femmier men and the butcher women.
    I guess you could call me an androgynophile. Lol
     
  12. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Here is something kinky I like. I like to watch a hot woman put on a strap on and penetrate her hot man.
     
  13. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, me too! I also like to BE that hot man getting penetrated. :slight_smile:
     
  14. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I am not as crazy about getting penetrated. I usually like watching another person get penetrated. In the past I used to like it more but in recent years it has not been something I am crazy about. Another thing do you think Brian would have made a good bisexual male in Queer As Folk. Although he seemed to have screwed a lot of men in each season.
     
  15. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    I've wondered about that, too.
    When Lindsay had her baby (of whom Brian was the father), they discussed an affair they had briefly back in college, so its possible he has some small hidden degree of attraction to women.

    That said, I think it would have kinda screwed up the entire plot of the series had Brian been bisexual. So much of the plot revolved around Brian and Justin's love for each other, as well as Brian's general stature as the "king of the gay playboys."

    So, probably, no.

    I think a subplot with Ted discovering his bisexuality would have been more congruent with the series. Perhaps during his meth-addicted phase? That would have added an interesting complication.

    Or, if we wanted to be really wild, what about Emmett falling for a trans woman or something? That would provide LOTS of layers to unpack.
     
    #15 QBear, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  16. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Yeah, Ted seemed like he may have been a good male bisexual character. There is one guy on YouTube who identifies as bisexual but you would think he was completely gay by his mannerisms. Though maybe he is like he says. I guess sexuality has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity when being gay, lesbian bisexual, or straight etc. Though it can be pretty obvious in some people. Some jerk left a hate message for this guy on his account and they called him a bisexual queen. Also do you believe people who say they were completely gay and ended up marrying a woman and having a family are faking it or may have been bi all along? They will say they went to conversion therapy and say that God healed them of their homosexuality.
     
  17. QBear

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Western Great Lakes
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a bummer about the guy on YouTube. There are assholes everywhere. Sigh.

    As for folks that say they were completely gay and married a woman and had kids, I'd say it really depends on the guy. I think most guys who leave their wives and come out as gay really are gay. I have no choice but to take their word for it.

    I for sure know gay to straight conversion therapy has been proven to be largely non-sense and has been largely discredited scientifically.

    Many former "ex-gays" and even conversion therapy leaders have come back out as gay, and said the therapy never really worked. I suppose it might have for a couple guys, but I'm guessing those folks were probably either Bisexual or straight and struggling with abuse trauma to begin with.

    And as for the "same sex attracted" male Mormons who marry women on that show on cable tv - well those guys are just plain nuts in my book. But that's just me.
     
    #17 QBear, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  18. Cubster1980

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO.
    Gender:
    Male
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Why is that I am more naturally sexually atttracted to shirtless men or their face and butt usually more often? It is mainly in their presence sometimes I feel like I am going to get off in my pants or shorts. I definitely have gotten aroused by some women in public but it doesn't seem quite as intense or as often. They usually are wearing like skimpy shorts or revealing clothing. However, I can fantasize and look at lesbian porn and get off to it and I have incredible orgasms. That is why I have had such a hard time deciding whether I am gay or bisexual. I also do not get grossed out by women it actually feels pretty hot especially two women.