HOCD or in Denial

Hi, and welcome. You're in the right place.

First, I think it's important to understand the role that the anxiety is playing here. It's hard to get a clear handle on much of anything when there's all this anxiety interfering with rational thinking. So that's something you'll need to address.

But more importantly, let's look at the actual situation here, minus the anxiety. I haven't heard anything remotely indicating that you have actual attraction to guys. Do you ever fantasize about guys when masturbating? Do you find yourself imagining having sex with guys (and I don't mean to see if you are attracted, I mean in a way you'd find arousing and exciting)? If the answer to these is no, then... it's pretty clear there's no real same-sex attraction going on.

But that doesn't solve your problem, because it sounds like there's some deep anxiety that's creating obsessive, intrusive thoughts. It's important to understand that HOCD isn't really a standalone condition; it's simply a particular way in which OCD manifests for some people. Nearly all people with OCD also have other anxiety-related behaviors, often obsessions or compulsions.

If it were me, I'd definitely want to get some help dealing with the underlying anxiety. There are some great cognitive approaches that help, and depending on the severity, it can also be helpful to have medication to calm the anxiety. There's also a lot of research on effective self-help approaches; this is outlined in the book "Brain Lock".

Keep us informed. Talking about how you're feeling and what's going on are among the best ways to address what you're feeling.

 

Hi,

From your further description, there's zero indication I'm hearing of any same-sex attraction whatsoever. This sounds like an anxiety issue. Make sure your therapist has experience with anxiety-spectrum disorders. Cognitive approaches can be really helpful here, but it can also be helpful to explore the underpinnings of the anxiety so that you can both address the in-the-now situation as well as whatever the root cause is.

Best of luck in that journey, and keep us in the loop.

 

Just to reiterate, since several people in the thread have used the term: There's no standalone condition called HOCD, any more than there's "locking locks OCD" or "flipping light switches OCD". All are symptoms that go along with OCD. To use the HOCD term is incredibly disrespectful to the people that struggle with OCD, which is a very real and very debilitating condition.

Someone who has constant obsessive thoughts that they might be gay, combined with other intrusive thoughts, compulsive behaviors, and anxiety, has symptoms that match OCD. It's important that we treat those with OCD with the respect and compassion they deserve, and not belittle the very real struggles by mistaking it for the bogus HOCD label that isn't used by anyone credible.

The situation described by this OP is consistent with OCD, and likely the therapy he's starting will be helpful with that. I just want to be cautious that we use correct terminology here.

 

I just rechecked the DSM-5 and there's no reference to "sexual OCD" or "religious OCD". So if we're using the same diagnostic tool used in North America, then let's be clear on terminology. (It's possible there's something different in the ICD-10; I'm going off of US standards.)

This isn't even close to correct. Denial, if we're talking about the Kubler-Ross stages, is a stage in which the person flatly denies the existence of the circumstance. In the case of someone finding out a loved one has died it looks like "She can't be dead, I just saw her an hour ago." In the case of someone who is gay and in denial, it can look like "Yes, I know I'm a guy who has sex with guys, masturbates to guys, and thinks about guys, but that's just because I'm bored. I really like women, even though I've never been with one and never think about women." Denial can be absolutely complete, and (at least for what we're talking about here) has nothing to do with the fear of rejection; that's a later stage having to do with accepting to oneself that one is gay and then dealing with sharing that info with others.

Again, not completely accurate. But the mechanism isn't really important here.

No offense, but do you actually know anything about OCD at all? Telling someone with OCD to stop the compulsions is like telling someone with a cancerous tumor to simply stop growing the tumor. This isn't something that the person with OCD can control, and it's really offensive to people with OCD to imply that they can simply stop doing what they're doing. That's why it's called compulsive behavior. Because it is often not controllable.

For the OP: OCD, unless it's very mild, generally requires treatment. I've previously recommended the book "Brain Lock." It has a detailed strategy for working with OCD, based on years of clinical experience and refinement.

This is also not true for people in the early stages of the coming out process; many are horrified, anxious, and feel tremendous shame and guilt when thinking about being aroused by guys, and particularly after orgasm. It is quite possible to be utterly revulsed by one's same-sex attraction while, at the same time, being drawn almost uncontrollably to same-sex behavior. This is, again, part of the denial process.

 

It depends. If you have fears about being a pedophile, AND you have attraction toward, arousal from, and sexual thoughts about, children (and are not a child), then yes, you are likely a pedophile. If you simply have uncontrollable intrusive thoughts, constant behaviors to test whether you have attraction to children, but no corroborating evidence for said attraction, then you are likely not a pedophile, and depending on the nature of the thought process, you could have OCD symptoms, or simply uncertainty about what's going on for you.

OCD is not 'doubting everything possible'. Nowhere in DSM-5 (or, for that matter, any earlier versions) is that definition used. OCD is a complex disorder with pages of criteria that define it. It is not about doubt, but about an uncontrollable collection of intrusive, anxiety-producing thoughts and behaviors arising from a derangement of the neurotransmitter pathways associated with fight-or-flight, on the one hand, and calming and self-soothing, on the other.

Again, there is no term 'Sexual OCD' in the DSM-5, which is widely considered to be the definitive standard for identifying, diagnosing, and defining psychiatric illness. If you were truly trained in basic psychology, you would know this, as it is taught in second-year abnormal psychology at the undergraduate level. Again, OCD itself is the combination of symptoms creating anxiety, intrusive, obsessive thoughts, and compulsive behaviors. The overwhelming majority of people suffering from OCD have multiple thoughts and behaviors that characterize the disorder. It is rare for it to be limited to any one type of intrusive thought, which is why it is not subtyped into 'locking locks OCD' or 'flipping light switches OCD' or 'sexual OCD".

I suspect I have read more of them than you have. There are a small handful (less than 5, last I looked) of papers centering on HOCD, but even in those studies, which weren't very good, the author acknowledged that HOCD is simply a subset of the greater category of OCD, and there was no evidence separating this condition from other forms of OCD.

Again, please stop sharing misinformation. It doesn't help our community.

 

Some people can masturbate to pink flamingoes on their lawn and get off. There's a definitely a physiological response to stroking your penis. Nothing in anything you have said indicates the slightest attraction to men. Again, this is your obsessive/intrusive thoughts speaking.

I don't expect you to be able to just take what's being said as fact, because that isn't the nature of how OCD works. But safe to say, from what you're describing, I hear zero indication that you are gay. This is something to talk further with your therapist about.

No. completely different. I'd place a pretty large wager that you're straight.