Does lack of split between sexual and romantic orientation apply to women, too?

The sexual and romantic split originally was created for asexuals. Since not everyone who considered themselves asexual were "aromantic", the split helped clarify what genders they would date even though they didn't want sex.

It was only later that other sexualities tried to use it for themselves to make sense of their sexualities.

In siome cases, It's fine. I would rather a woman come up to me and say she was a "heteromantic bisexual" instead of just "bisexual" so I know not to waste my time. If she called herself bisexual, even though it is correct, it doesn't tell me what she's looking for so it's not always helpful.

Other times, I am skeptical of the split. I am most skeptical of people who say they are sexually attracted to the same sex and romantically attracted only to the opposite. 9 times out of 10, being "heteromantic homosexual" is due to internalized homophobia and not yet accepting yourself.

It's very very common for someone to think they're only sexually attracted to the same sex and not romantically, because of cultural brainwashing. We're fed beliefs that you can only find love, marriage, children, and a happy life of privilege with the opposite sex. Same sex romance is "weird". Same sex romance is wrong and will get you discriminated against or fired.

On the other hand, you can have sex with the same sex in a discreet way without getting caught. It's acceptable for women to have sex with women if It's ONLY sex, but loving a woman makes you a dyke that will burn in hell. Holding hands, kissing, loving the same sex can feel wrong or "strange" because of these messages, even if one thinks they're not affected by them.

I think the split applies equally to men and women. Women who are sexually attracted to women but not romantically usually also have internalized homophobia and can't imagine the idea yet. But eventually, they may come around and "get used to it" after accepting their sexuality.

Now, that's not to say that It's completely impossible to be genuinely sexually attracted to the same sex and not romantically, but It's very uncommon. You may be a person who has their orientation genuinely this way, but for most people it needs some inspection.

By the way, I've always been the opposite. I was always romantically attracted to women, wanted to kiss them, hold their hands, and call them my girlfriend....but had no sexual fantasies and thought sex with women was "disgusting" and "wrong". I was a reverse version of this, and I had to inspect my sexuality to ask myself why was it "unattractive" to sleep with women? Turns out it was internalized homophobia.

---------- Post added 27th Dec 2016 at 02:32 PM ----------

*some

---------- Post added 27th Dec 2016 at 02:36 PM ----------

Oh, it could also be possible that you're closer to the heterosexual side of bisexual but just have a thing for experimenting. I've heard that before too.

 

If it's split for you then it's split. You feel the way you feel. Attraction is nuanced and complex, and it bothers me when people say that XYZ can't be the case – it amounts to acting like they know better how other people feel than those people know themselves.

Having said all of that, once you identify your identity that doesn't mean it's 100% set in stone and that you can never learn anything new about yourself. Just continue to explore and see what works for you.

 

It definitely seems there could be some internalized homophobia there, especially given what you said about "not imagining it" in your past. This is further supported by you developing small crushes on them.

It's likely you haven't gotten used to the idea since you've been fed the message that heterosexual love is superior your whole life.

 

I am someone who has come out to myself as a gay man, and i could have written many of your thoughts.

I had gay sex fantasies but dated women all my life, but when I finally came here and posted and started thinking about it, thinking that it was possible to be in a romantic relationship with a guy, my romantic fantasies became about men too. I also felt an incredible rush of positive emotion when I accepted to myself this could be possible.

Almost every day I realized some way that I had repressed my feelings or was driven by societal pressure- even going back to high school 'who do you like'... you have to like someone, who do you think the hottest girl is?'

Looking back I realized that my 'romantic' relationships or fantasies about women were exactly how you describe yours about men- being the perfect couple, being loved, the ego boost.

Like you my fantasies were contained but since coming here it has seeped into everyday life and now am actively pursuing dating.

 

You got me rofl with this :roflmao: I thought that so many times, it's funny to know someone else has too.

I am in my 40's as well - 45 to be exact. I have known I was lesbian since a young teen and avoided it due to my own insecurities and upbringing. I am married to a man that is a dear friend and we have a child together. It has taken many years for me to get to accepting myself for me and loving myself no matter what other's beliefs are about it. I plan on staying married until my child is grown - another 6-7 years.

I just wanted you to know everything you feel and said is normal. It is the process your mind goes through trying to get through what you were brought up to believe. Once you fully accept yourself, there will be no more doubt, no more separating romantic versus sexual. I knew it, I fought it, I hid it-still am hiding it. But the one person you should be honest with is yourself. Acceptance of yourself and your feelings brings happiness in yourself and everything gets better.

---------- Post added 28th Dec 2016 at 06:47 PM ----------

@NYCer

Can you post your quote about the prison on my wall? I absolutely loved it and I don't have enough posts to post it myself. Please :icon_bigg

So much of what you said resonated with me. Even the

It is a lot to work through, but you will get there.

I wish you all the best in your journey.

 

I have to say that I find Chip's reply to be utter B.S. The very notion that there can be meaningful "scientific" study of this completely subjective phenomenon strikes me as ludicrous on its face. Beyond that, I feel that he makes this assertion with the same kind of bogus authority that not so long ago would have been invoked to categorize homosexuals as sick. Why bother with discussing our experiences if Dr. Chip can provide us with a "scientific" study that proves that what we are experiencing is just not real? Love, desire, affection, bonding—are we to understand that these are knowable and measurable, and that prevailing opinion is that they are all in complete alignment!?

 

Most straight women don't like straight porn because a lot of it is misogynistic and violent. Some like guy on guy porn because hot guys to them. But some 100% lesbians also like guy on guy porn since It's less "fake" than lesbian porn.

Porn isn't the best indicator of sexuality, though.

 

I don't like straight porn, but then I am not straight. Don't really like male/male porn either, doesn't turn me on. Girls most definitely, though. If I happen to watch a straight porn vid- guy/girl - I am watching the girl and fantasizing it is me instead of guy, but I'd rather watch Orange is the new Black than straight porn...lol really not much on porn at all, I like to fantasize/dream.

Yes, straight women are actually attracted to physically and sexually and romantically to men.

---------- Post added 29th Dec 2016 at 02:14 PM ----------

oh.. Thanks NYCer for posting on my wall. I love that!

 

was it a fantasy or dream? Makes a difference. Dreams can have sorts of meaning. You worked late into the night with him so he was on your mind when you went to bed - also could have several other reasons doing with work. Fantasy you consciously took the time to daydream about him. But either way I would say one time incident has no bearing on your sexuality.

---------- Post added 29th Dec 2016 at 03:54 PM ----------

* all sorts of meaning.

 

I can't tell you whether you or bi/lesbian/or straight. But, from what I have been told, and I have asked many straight women, women for the most part find it difficult to reach orgasm with a man. Oral stimulation, visualizations, or accessories seem to be the best option for guy/girl for the woman to orgasm unless the woman is hypersensitive. And most straight guys do not mind lesbian porn because it turns them on.

You have to ask yourself some questions.
Do you/did you truly find yourself sexually attracted to the men and just didn't receive satisfaction(orgasm) so you relied on what you knew worked(fantasies of women)?
Or were there other reasons you were attracted to them?
I'd say if the first then you could be bisexual.

 

Let me start by saying - I agree with what you are saying on the theoretical premise.

I differ in regards though to the premise that they cannot be separate. Physical/sexual attraction and romantic attraction are completely different and therefore can be separate. To say that they cannot be separate is to say no one can truly have a one night stand because obviously there was the sexual attraction so there should also be the romantic connection.

When reading I took the question as a form of detachment as in Can someone have a sexual/physical attraction to one type and have a romantic attraction to a different type. The answer is yes. It is not a new issue. It has been around for ages. The 'bad boy' syndrome where the girl only has sexual attraction with the man who has the 'bad boy' reputation, but romantically marries the good guy even though she is not physically attracted to him. It exists. Even within LGBT - how many openly admit they connect or get along better with the opposite gender, but sexually are attracted to the same gender.

I think it comes down to the perception of romance which for each person may be different. Surely even with your definition of romantic orientation being just a deep, emotionally intimate friendship, you can see that it is different/separate from a sexual attraction. Why then could it not be recognized as a separate orientation even at the smallest degree? Taking the examples I already used - why is one sexually oriented to the 'bad boy' but romantically to the 'good guy'? It goes to the perception of romance by the individual.

 

With all due respect to Chip -- which is a lot -- I seem to be an example (to myself) of heteroromantic bisexual. I knew I felt this way when I was 12. It was the same at 22. And at 32. And at 42. And still.

One can nonetheless make the argument that I would also be biromantic if not for some deep-seated denial... but the long history, and my relatively trauma-free childhood, with loving and accepting parents, suggests that such an argument is itself a form of at least strained logic.